jasong

Holy moly! I'll have to settle with just looking at what you post for now. ?

That opal is truly amazing, like mini nebulae in a rock. Does your friend have a website where they sell what they mine?

I believe that for sure, I guess what I'm referring to is the GPZ in specific though. My impression is that a lot of prospectors in Africa are using stuff like the Gold Monster and older PI's more, but I really have no idea. I know they are serious prospectors too, more than I am since often there is no option for them but to find gold. I'm just basing that off what people tell me whom I speak with on my Youtube channel mostly. There is some interesting stuff happening out there which is only just now starting and may or may not lead to more. A lot of global people who never use forums contact me through my videos which is pretty cool. One guy I just spoke with has permits to prospect recently opened areas in Northern Iraq (Kurdish territory) and will be essentially detecting in a war zone as they are still fighting ISIS, a place that has never seen a metal detector before in a non-military sense. He's just a young Kurdish kid, and is going to set up an Instagram page to update his progress. People like this contact me almost daily for detector recommendations, and often I refer them to your gold detector review page. All kinds of people from all over, - Papua New Guinea and a few other places in Oceania, Peru, China, etc. The large majority, I mean close to 99% if I guessed, want to know what to buy under $500 though. So I'm assuming there aren't a ton of GPZ's being used by the locals in these places and so I really started wondering what it's future was going to hold there. So I'm guessing Minelab generally has goals to target that price range and market since by far it seems to have the largest growth potential. I just wanted to make sure they didn't forget us. *On a side note, what exactly does Minelab manufacture in Idaho?

Thank you JP, this seems to generally addresses some things that have been left to our imaginations for years and tells me enough to feel comfortable in my gut decision to hold off for now and watch how things develop. It does sound like Minelab has not abandoned the serious gold prospector entirely, which was why I was considering going with one of these aftermarket coils, so we'll see what comes about by the time I sell this GPZ and get ready to buy my 3rd when the need arises again. (I feel like I'm in some ways mirroring Steve here now that I've read his response too, and in some ways not) While we definitely don't have the kind of gold you have in Australia, I manage to scrape by on minimum wage or thereabouts on what I can find over here, sometimes I get luckier, and there are a few others doing the same. A GPZ is not a luxury item for me as it is for some here. It's a business expense which I take a loan out to purchase, and resell when I am done using it to pay off my loan. I do it because I love the freedom and lifestyle of being alone exploring the mountains and desert and having the right tool for job enables me to live a life like that at least part time. I buy one when I feel I can pay for the depreciation plus make money on top of that. That's why I ask the questions I ask, it's a tool for me and I have to be confident that what I'm using will pay for itself and more. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" when it comes to new products to me, I won't buy something unless I'm confident it'll pay itself off and so I ask a ton of questions and I appreciate all the people who take the time to answer some of them.

Personally I am not assuming anything about the aftermarket coils yet. That's why a few days ago I was asking specifically for objective tests, numbers, and comparisons to the stock coil from the testers, and not just subjective tests finding missed nuggets in old patches which can happen with any machine no matter how good someone is. It happens to all of us. Actually I think Minelab kinda has to tell us, because I'm definitely not in a position to answer those questions. Do you know why the major aftermarket guys haven't done anything by now? If you encourage me to ask myself rhetorical questions then I can certainly come up with rhetorical situations aplenty. 1.) IP prevents legit 3rd parties from developing a coil and Minelab would rather sell SDC backlogs than retool their factory to make a new coil for a product that probably didn't sell a lot of units in the wider scope of things globally, when compared to say an Equinox which is more profitable to create accessories for. And/Or 2.) The X Coil performance is due to a design that allows higher sensitivity and less material (lower resistance or inductance thus less wire weight?) that drives the GPZ to operate outside of FCC specs that Minelab must comply with but a Russian random company can skirt around. Thus Minelab finds itself on an uneven playing field where any product it makes will by nature underperform the 3rd party coils who do not have to comply with FCC regulations and so will lose money by offering their own coils which cannot compete with a 3rd party? 2b.) The electronics not being designed for this lower resistance/inductance/whatever may fail eventually. But we won't know because ML probably has no desire to waste resources testing that scenario if they have no intention of honoring the warranty. 2c.) Or they already know what potentially happens running coils like these because they in fact did make their own, and found it caused issues. Thus they know these X coils may cause issues too. I mean, I could sit here and hypothesize elaborate scenarios all night if encouraged like that. ?

At a time when the trend is clearly towards having less detectors and one machine that does the job of a few detectors at once, that is a surprising statement to hear since I felt Minelab were actually the ones sort of pioneering this one detector fits all approach better than anyone else with the Equinox release. And I assumed the GPZ was the same way, one machine to combine performance of older PI's, SDC, and newer ZVT all in one package for those willing to pay for it. Grab one machine and go. Or at least it seemed that was the future promise. Buying an SDC doesn't do anything to solve the weight issue with the existing ML coils either, which as we've seen with the X Coils is a problem which is possible to be addressed if desired. An SDC also doesn't have nearly the configurability with settings as the GPZ does so why would we want to give that up? I mean, if Ford told people who just bought a new F250 that they couldn't put a offroad suspension or a supercharger in and had to buy a brand new Ford Raptor built for that purpose from the factory instead, yet couldn't tow a backhoe, couldn't take a yard of dirt in the bed, or carry a bunk of lumber, they would probably be laughed out of the truck market. No one wants two or more trucks when the one they have could work better than both combined and they already spent a song to get it. Am I wrong or is there really a compelling reason that it's better for the customer to go buy a new SDC instead of a new coil that effectively makes their GPZ do the same task? If Minelab made the coil themselves the IP issue wouldn't exist either, especially if they made a better product, for cheaper and killed the competition through capitalism and not jurisprudence. I just don't see any actual reason buying an SDC would be a better choice, especially when ML could be making lighter 14x13's and 19's on top of it if they came out with a new line of coils. I do see how it's better for Minelab though, especially if SDC sales are faltering. Am I off base? If so, why not just make a coil? I feel like there is some piece of the puzzle missing here...

Rob, since you are a dealer, if you get the free time or happen to be talking to Minelab already for other issues, could you try to see if they'll release some official statement to my two questions in my post above? As you mention coils were a robust aftermarket business for dealers, and there is certainly a demand from customers, so it seems like it'd be good for all of us to know one way or another what the future (or current) plans are here. Steve, these X Coils are already released and available for purchase, unless I misunderstood the other thread? Either way, it's still time, IMO, that they let us know if they are going to release their own smaller coil or not by now too, independent of wether or not anyone else is developing aftermarket coils. If so, I'd simply wait for that one (assuming its not years away) and case closed for me.

It would be great if we could get an official written statement from Minelab on both their repair stance after using these coils and wether or not they are ever coming out with a smaller coil themselves for those of us who prefer to keep their factory warranty. If they don't read these forums anymore it would be great if a dealer or similar could encourage them to do this, all my connections there have now apparantly moved on. It's a flagship product that was clearly designed with software and hardware upgrades/accessories in mind, yet they've been silent for years. Just on general principal they should have made some statement one way or the other, especially if they do not intend to make anything except the 19" coil which is tepidly used at best.

Oddly China manages to send me batteries halfway across the planet from Shenzhen quicker than it takes UPS to send a package from Salt Lake City to Cheyenne, and for cheaper too! Not sure how that works out, but I get them in 2 to 3 days from HobbyKing and that includes passing through customs.

As hot as possible for the conditions while still staying stable. No need to memorize settings really, just the philosophy. Adjust accordingly as you travel. For most of the US West not right next to EMI/civilization and not on basalt or serpentine, BIF, (or similarly hot or pyrite/magnetite/galena/etc laden bedrock) I've been able to run HY, Normal, and 18-20 sens. I keep my threshold lower than most though because sensory adaptation is real and affects us non-computer humans more than some might think. When it comes to 1 grain to 1 gram stuff, General will miss a lot that HY will hit like a bell.

Right on Dave, that's the attitude that will keep prospecting alive and well for those who come after us. Every nugget we dig up is one less lead for a greenhorn to find and make the same connections we made to find more gold. I remember how hard it was to succeed without anyone helping with some of those missing pieces when I started, and today it's even harder for greenhorns, tomorrow it might be impossible. A side note, you are the only person I've ever met who took me to a place where gold was found, to which I am still very appreciative. I think about this a lot when I'm out detecting because I know today there are plenty of great places I've cleaned out now, that a newer prospector would pass right through and assume there is no gold, just as I did for years when I started. Yet I know if I took a dozer back there would still be more gold out of detector range and I know exactly where to dig if I have to permit them. I can't doze them all, someone should though. That's the kind of knowledge that I feel shouldn't be lost or modern prospecting is going to die with it. New technology is great, but a backhoe in just the right place can be just as good when most the surface stuff is gone.

The old metal sign for that Burns Bros Truck Stop and coffee is sitting on some land I bought a while back. I'm too late in the game to know any of those guys myself though.

Interesting, thanks Chet. Mine seems to do it no matter the battery charge but I'll try it on a fully charged battery today to make sure. The weird thing on mine is it seems to work ok for the first 2 or 3 minutes after bootup, then it starts going on the fritz. General seems to work fine, High Yield seems to be the only one that causes the problems.

I'd like to meet up sometime Dave if we can and compare machines, I couldn't get my GPZ into HY at all, nor above 15 sensitivity, in places I hunted hundreds of hours in 2015 in the same settings you are using. I rarely ever had to go below 18 sensitivity or into general on my 1st machine. I have lots of it on video so I know I'm not simply misremembering, yet the Minelab repair cannot see a problem when I sent my machine in. They gave me a new machine and it has the exact same issue and I'd like to put a working machine on video to compare with mine if I can so I can try to get something resolved and get a working machine again. I am starting to wonder if there is something weird with the new batch of GPZ's now, or at least some of them. HY is like detecting in a lightning storm for me, zipping intensely all the time no matter what part of the country I'm in, even in the exact same washes I have on video from before, like I'm detecting over a bed of tiny birdshot or something even in the most mild, neutral ground. I thought it must be the weeds or the wet soil, but I don't think so now because I've hit some places bone dry with no weeds and same thing.

Same problem here. My 1st GPZ didn't seem as bad in 2015. I took my 2nd GPZ down this winter recently in the Mohave and it was almost impossible to get stable anywhere, especially in the newer green growth which is more or less impossible to detect in now unless I use general and difficult. But I'm having ongoing problems with this machine in general (which the repair center can't seem to replicate) too so maybe its something with the newer batch or are you on your first one still? On my 1st GPZ, running in general instead of HY helped abate the vegetation falsing in wet places.

Great to see and hear the gold and stories! My first exposure to detecting for gold was through the AK Gold Forum and all the people at these operations like Moore Creek posting their nugget finds, you guys inspired me and I'm sure a lot of other people to buy their first gold machine and give it a try too.

I spent a lot of time hoping for a GPZ update or new model but this last year I've found myself almost only using a VLF, in my case a GB2 and a Deus. I started in the "King PI" times and never really looked at VLF's as more than a relic from the past or a tool to clean up the little bits. But after my GPZ went to the shop I realized that I really enjoyed exploring with my GB2 and Deus because they were so light and easy to swing. When I'm exploring for new places it's a almost a better tool because finding those tiny bits are the best way to find new patches since they are so much more numerous and its easier to sniff out by tracing them. They are also the best way to find "new old" patches that have been forgotten because so many people only used PI's for so many years and those are the only indicators left behind now. The reality of today is that a lot of the guys who found these patches in the 70's, 80's, and 90's are gone and with them the knowledge and information is dying too so its up to the new guys to rediscover them. I think the era of taking the big guns to old gold fields and finding success is now also dying or dead, at least for me, I'm sure there will always be some producing nuggets from them though and saying "its still out there". But mostly, I just remembered how fun detecting and exploring can be when you aren't tethered to a giant anchor and I can swing fast, all day, and still concentrate on looking at everything around me more. On the experience, on the geology, on the history around me, on life. Light and packable just feels right, it's how it should be today in 2019, it's how it should have been 10 years ago. In a way I guess we are going back in time. I hope Minelab can find some way to bring this experience to the big guns like the GPZ but it doesn't seem likely due to physical limitations on the coil design and lack of competition. I'll always keep a PI or GPZ to clean up patches, but in the future I see a lot more exploration happening with the VLF's for me personally, like 25 years ago I guess we are going back to the future or maybe back to the past. I'll probably still buy a GPZ update if it's significantly deeper and hit old patches, but I don't see it (or a PI) as my main machine anymore for the first time in my detecting career unless they make it far lighter or really advance it's ability to find deeper gold while reducing sensitivity to salt, minerals, and EMI. I'm curious, after seeing Steve selling his GPZ, are you doing something similar with prospecting or are you mostly leaning towards coins and relics these days? Anyone else thinking along these same lines recently?

Question, having not used an XRF before and only seen them used by other people - is this particular gun not set up to see non-metallic elements? One would expect some oxygen or sulfur in there, or some silicon maybe. Was your little target dot right on the silvery stuff and nothing else or did it overlap into the black stuff? You and Dave may already have something like this, but here is a calculator to ID a mineral based on atomic percentages such as you get with an XRF. Adjusting the tolerance up to 10% or even 25% or so can be helpful since the XRF isn't always shooting one specific mineral. http://www.webmineral.com/chemical.shtml#.XDbzr1VKiUk

Thanks, I will give them a call and if they don't sell the liners then maybe they can point me in the right direction. Since posting I sorta gave up on the bowl as a lost cause and put it in the backyard, but I'd love to get it running if I can as I had some mining plans for it. Read through that jig page. Looks like what I have are two "Yuba" style duplex jigs. They are 600lbs each, pretty large. I've already rebuilt and refinished one of them about 90%. I also bought an old truck mounted drilling rig that basically needs totally rebuilt so that should be a challenge, I have no idea how to use this thing either once I get it running again (and I was once a directional driller on big oil rig - but not the same). It's totally new to me, don't know anyone with any experience with this stuff. But that's part of the fun, learning it all. If anyone has any experience maybe they'll stumble on this thread, I didn't really find much posted in the past about this type of equipment so figured it might be good to have a thread out there.

Does any place still make and sell the rubber Knudsen bowl liner? Google seems to just lead to a bunch of spam pages. I acquired an old bowl and the previous owner thought there was a store in Reno that made or sold them but I haven't had any luck locating said store. Also semi-related I am rebuilding an old jig, never used one before, and I was wondering what people use for shot? Do you just buy steel shot in bulk like from an ammo place or is there something cheaper and better to use specific to jigs? I see tungsten shot available for jigs but it's the same density as gold more or less so I'm having trouble seeing how that would work, especially if I want to save the black sands too. I'm curious what people use here?

Vesicular basalt

I've found nuggets down 10 inches into caliche. As Steve says, it's invisible to a detector, at least in it's pure form. However, caliche doesn't have to homogenous, depending on how/where it formed. It can have salts in it (you will know when you pop the nugget into your mouth to clean it), and it can have layers of black sands. Those two things can affect detection depth. It just varies by area, usually it's pretty mild.

It looks like Steve's articles are working again, did they get the whole site fixed?

I think that's a pretty accurate representation of the current industry too. But the reason I posted my chart was to show the growth segments. Which are the demographics which currently have interest and are potential customers, but don't yet own detectors and don't attend shows, for what I believe are the reasons I posted. I'm just posting for general interest, not in specific reference to White's. I just think the detector industry as a whole has really passed over a lot of potential customers due to their pricing schemes. Treasure hunting in general appeals to a lot of different age groups after all so the fact that a large segment is absent as product users should be a red flag for any manufacturer.

Also, I agree with Mike Hillis' idea about some kind of app driven marketing plan. This was something I mentioned myself, before the GPZ was released and I was speculating on it's (then unknown) potential to be digitally updated and how it would naturally lend to an app type marketplace similar to phones. It's a proven marketing technique that turns breakeven hardware into an ongoing source of income. Which again leads me back to the same theory: Make things cheap. Increase your customer base. A large customer base makes it possible to do something like that where the app only costs $5 or $10. With a small customer base, it's hardly worth it.