Fisher Has A Lot Of Models Marked Discontinued On Their Site And Teknetics Has 3 Models

[Geotech]

David is in poor health and is mostly retired, though he continues to dabble as he can. I do have some unsanctioned side projects but they go slowly.

[mh9162013]

On 10/20/2021 at 4:48 PM, Geotech said:

On processor speed, processors have been fast enough for quite some time. Target recovery response is a strong function of the filter implementation (some in analog, some in DSP) and how the audio is processed. I recall back in the day when I used an XLT... target separation wasn't bad for those days but I found the menus to be sluggish. Then the DFX came along with double the processor speed. The menus were sure snappy, but target separation was the same. I'm sure they used the same filter and audio algorithms. It's a matter of recognizing what needs to be done (fast recovery) and designing the filters that will do it. Back then fast recovery wasn't on the radar but depth was, and there is some trade-off between the two.

If I understand what you're getting it, it seems like that until the signal processing software is improved. it doesn't really matter how fast or efficient the processors are.

[Cal_Cobra]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:16 AM, phrunt said:

I'm surprised one of the staff at FT's kids or grand kids hasn't volunteered to do them a new website for a free detector or something.

The current site looks like they did it with Microsoft Frontpage 95 ?

[Joe D.]

   Weather it's lack of funds, or lack of interest! It's does not boad well, of any manufacturer of any product these days, not to keep up on a "current" website design, and function!

   It literally should take one person, with the right background and moderate pay, to design and maintain it! They can even be contract labor, and not a permanent employee! (Quite common) And, possibly one or two others, crosstrained, to maintain, and cover the main person/contractor responsible, due to a temporary problem, if unable to contact and fix remotely!! Imo ??

[King-Of-Bling]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:48 PM, Geotech said:

Yes, I've been reading this thread. No, no one else at FTP has likely read it, or will. As usual the criticisms are largely deserved. Here are some specific responses.

The original topic was about canceled products and I think that has been addressed. Products like the F2/F4/F5 have been replaced by the F11/F22/F44 and the F70 by the Patriot. I suspect the CZ3D is getting canceled because it doesn't sell. It's an expensive hand-built detector that has low margins.

FTP has 3 metal detector brands but one engineering dept. At least in that respect, it is not a disjointed effort. I have designed products for all 3 brands.

[History: The old George Payne Teknetics bought the Bounty Hunter brand and released some new BH detectors (Big Bud & others) until the whole thing went bankrupt. John Turner of El Paso (of Jetco and Techna brands) bought the BH/Tek assets and produced BH detectors. This is where BH got its reputation as being crap. Eventually FTP bought BH/Tek and cleaned up BH quality and reintroduced the Tek brand. The intent was that BH would be sold through big box stores and Tek through more traditional dealers. FTP then bought Fisher, primarily for the utility locators. Fisher quality was also crap and FTP cleaned that up. FTP continues to make products under all 3 brands as they still have different sales channels. In some cases they share circuits and software, in some cases not.]

The Fisher web site is an embarrassment. A few years ago it was professionally redesigned but never published. I just checked, the new design is still sitting there so I don't know why it has not been published. The new one looks pretty nice.

Yes, the new 12" 00 coil was designed for a new detector model which has been in development for several years. I haven't heard anything about it in quite a while.

There have been suggestions that "all we need to do" is revamp the CZ, digitize it, add wireless, make it waterproof, improve deep iron ID, faster target recovery, and add blendy-bleedy audio. That's called "a completely new design." FTP has been working on new multifrequency projects for many years but I don't know what is currently happening there.

On processor speed, processors have been fast enough for quite some time. Target recovery response is a strong function of the filter implementation (some in analog, some in DSP) and how the audio is processed. I recall back in the day when I used an XLT... target separation wasn't bad for those days but I found the menus to be sluggish. Then the DFX came along with double the processor speed. The menus were sure snappy, but target separation was the same. I'm sure they used the same filter and audio algorithms. It's a matter of recognizing what needs to be done (fast recovery) and designing the filters that will do it. Back then fast recovery wasn't on the radar but depth was, and there is some trade-off between the two.

This is pulling from another thread, but I saw the well-deserved feedback on the new GB2. Yes, it was done because the weird ground pot went obsolete. I had 2 proposals; first, replace the weird pot with a normal 10-turn pot and keep making the GB2 more-or-less as-is. Meanwhile, design an all-new GB3 with a digital back-end, auto tracking, and wireless. A co-worker and myself even built a prototype that worked pretty well but needed the usual polishing effort. It failed to generate any interest.

Currently I am not involved in any hobby detector design except for the Impulse, and that is not my primary focus (it's security products). Like everyone else here, I can also see what is happening, just like I did at White's. I have no delusions about where we are at and where we need to get to. Like at White's, it's particularly frustrating that I work here and can do nothing about it. Whatever happens will happen. But I will say we are not intentionally driving for Tesoro Cliffs.

[Addendum about White's: When I was at White's I could see clearly that there was no planned succession beyond Ken's funeral, other family members sure weren't the answer. There was some discussion on an employee buyout but it fizzled and by the time I left the writing on the wall was in large bold font. A once-stable Engineering dept. became a revolving door of new faces and no continuity of knowledge. The company was set up to fail, and the plan succeeded.]

 

You have basically confirmed what I've been thinking all along. I was just hoping otherwise. I can read between the lines like others do here.? You are working on the AQ , but security is the priority. SMF has been around for years but is apparently shelved. "We" are not intentionally headed for the "Tesoro cliffs". Well....maybe you guys aren't (because you care) but 1 just may be...THE SHOTCALLER !

About 10 years ago , I worked under similar circumstances. A new owner ( but unfamiliar with the industry) had been there a year. At one point vendors and creditors were not only calling for payments but showing up at our office. The owner was pushing us salesmen for more sales and offering our customers more extended warranties outside industry standards , etc. I called him out in an emergency company meeting in front of others. He said I didn't know what I was talking about. But I knew. ( some of my customers paid by credit card , then a week later were billed again . This was no accident and the salesmen were left to make excuses. It was horrible). Then paychecks started to bounce. I was not going to risk my personal state license for this guy. I left 1 month later after being there about 1.5 years. This company was flying high. Then flying into the ground. I went back 2 months later to see a few old friends and a repo company was towing 3 more company vehicles. 4 months later , they were completely shut down.

I'm sure you have been keeping your eyes and ears wide open for another opportunity. Minelab service in the states ? Another field all together ? Idk....But Thank You for chiming in and I hope you end up where you are more appreciated for the hard work and input you do.

[Steve Herschbach]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:48 PM, Geotech said:

Yes, I've been reading this thread. No, no one else at FTP has likely read it, or will.

Thanks for the commentary Carl, though none of it surprises me, sad to say. The comment above sums it up best. When I was in business, we sought out, and were vitally interested in, feedback about where we needed to improve. It was our main driver, not the pats on the back for jobs well done. FTs lack of interest in that aspect says it all.

Obviously a digital CZ would be a new design, with attendant costs. I think the main commentary here is that the Fisher CZ-6 and Minelab Sovereign introduced us to multi in 1991. So Fisher was an innovator and leader, and then….. nothing? Just a few tweaks in over 30 years? So yeah, we get it takes more than waving a magic wand, but FT should have been on a digital CZ way back, in a form that could be done, instead of swinging for the moon, and as a result doing nothing. I liked my CZ-5, and would have taken exactly the same performance, but in a Gold Bug Pro housing, and been happy as a clam. That’s really what people are really saying. But that ship has sailed now, too late in the age of Vanquish/Equinox.

[Bohemia Miner]

I also want to give a shout out to Carl!  Thank you for your insights and opinions.  I wasn't sure if you'd chime in, being so close to the topic.

Phrunt, what I meant was when a "NEW COMER" asks 10 old time prospectors, 8 will reply Gold Bug 2.  I was talking about old guys that use a metal detector as a secondary mining method i.e.: checking dry wash tailing piles, bottoms of dig holes, etc.  The loyalty not being with those recommending as much as the newbie listening to them and buying the GB2.  I always love your writings as well my friend!

Walt

[phrunt]

2 hours ago, Bohemia Miner said:

 

Phrunt, what I meant was when a "NEW COMER" asks 10 old time prospectors, 8 will reply Gold Bug 2.  I was talking about old guys that use a metal detector as a secondary mining method i.e.: checking dry wash tailing piles, bottoms of dig holes, etc. 

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification and sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing with you, there is no doubt in my mind the GB2 is the best detector First Texas currently make, aside I guess from the Impulse AQ but I know nothing about it and intend to keep it that way after reading enough about it now ?  The entire lineup is a bit long in the tooth and dated but it seems that it's going to stay that way.

I guess I'm a bit disgruntled they made a Gold Bug 2.1 instead of a Gold Bug 3 in a model that's so long overdue for a new version.  It'd be good if they could address it's shortcomings like it's poor recovery after hot rocks and having a ground grab along with auto tracking and other modern features we've all come to expect on a detector purchased in 2021 but then maybe the reason they haven't is because it wouldn't really change the fact that sales of the detector would still be slow, competition has the market now, it's hard to get it back. 

Up until their Multi Frequency machine all Nokta has done is what First Texas should have done, and could have done and they've made an entire business around it selling a significant number of detectors that are just feature packed detectors similar at heart to the FT detectors. 

[DOOGY-MD]

I truly hope they will match the AT pro, Simplex+ and the Nox type of detectors soon!

 

I love my F19, but it's not waterproof....wish it was....maybe they will make the new Time Ranger Pro waterproof?