Manticore For Prospecting

[Doc Bach]

12 minutes ago, DSMITH said:

Well all I knew was I could no longer find it so that makes since LOL

Get in touch with your guy if you want one.

[DSMITH]

2 minutes ago, Doc Bach said:

Get in touch with your guy if you want one.

He will let me know when he gets them in I have had it paid for for months

just not sure I really even want one what I have rite now is working good for me

[Doc Bach]

2 minutes ago, DSMITH said:

He will let me know when he gets them in I have had it paid for for months

just not sure I really even want one what I have rite now is working good for me

 

2 minutes ago, DSMITH said:

He will let me know when he gets them in I have had it paid for for months

just not sure I really even want one what I have rite now is working good for me

Copy that I canceled mine a while back...Sticking with my NOX 800 and both Deus units.

[Chase Goldman]

22 hours ago, phrunt said:

The Manticore needs run on higher sensitivity settings to achieve the same results the Equinox 800 can get on lower sensitivity settings, but the problem is it's hard to run the Manticore on these higher sensitivity settings due to EMI when you get to the 30 - 35 sensitivity range where as for me at least I normally always run my Nox on 25 when prospecting. 

The Manticore may very well end up similar in performance overall IF you can run it on it's highest few sensitivity settings. 

This is interesting because up to this point what I've heard is that the M-core handles EMI better than the Nox.  Long press noise cancel and all that (I have some thoughts/Questions on M-core long press noise cancel and whether it is really doing anything really magic vs. just scanning the subset of "quietest" channels and picking one of those - based on my read of the user manual but will save that deep dive for a separate thread). 

Basically. what I'm hearing here is that sensitivity (at least for micro gold) has to be boosted on M-core into the red line region to get the same sensitivity as the Nox.  In other words, it just appears more immune to EMI because it's sensitivity scale has been expanded (more resolution) rather than actually being increased over the Nox 900 - i.e., the "scales" are using different numbers (so there is not a one-to-one correspondence from a numbers standpoint) but the sensitivity range and high end are roughly equivalent.  The better EMI handling of the M-core is primarily a sort of illusion as a result of "25" (just to pick a number) on the M-core being more quiet than 25 on the Nox, but that "25" on the M-core is more like (25/35) * 28 (Nox 900 full sensitivity setting) = 20 on the 900 and the 800 (assuming a one to one scale correspondence between the 0 to 25 Nox 800 and 900 scales with the Nox having 3 additional units of sensitivity).  I agree with the statement below.  Would need more data across a range of different conductors.

22 hours ago, phrunt said:

but with the Nox 900 now having more sensitivity over the 800 that maybe a difficult challenge for it.

9 hours ago, abenson said:

The only place I haven't had a chance to try the Manticore yet is relic hunting. From what Tom Dankowski has said on his forum I may not like it relic hunting either. His comments to those who are trying to decide is-On land if EMI is not an issue get the 900, if EMI is an issue get the Manticore. If you primarily beach hunt get the Manticore. My relic hunting spots are fairly remote so I'm thinking the 900 will be the one to use for me. I'm at lest a month away from a relic hunt to test the Manticore out.

We'll see you there, Andy.  ?

5 hours ago, phrunt said:

I'm very disappointed with the Target ID stability on the Manticore too, even in air tests its far less stable than the Nox 800 and not just because of the expanded ID numbers, its more unstable than that.

I feel the same about the 900 TID stability, so far, but need more real world swing time on it.

[phrunt]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

This is interesting because up to this point what I've heard is that the M-core handles EMI better than the Nox.  Long press noise cancel and all that (I have some thoughts/Questions on M-core long press noise cancel and whether it is really doing anything really magic vs. just scanning the subset of "quietest" channels and picking one of those - based on my read of the user manual but will save that deep dive for a separate thread). 

Basically. what I'm hearing here is that sensitivity (at least for micro gold) has to be boosted on M-core into the red line region to get the same sensitivity as the Nox.  In other words, it just appears more immune to EMI because it's sensitivity scale has been expanded (more resolution) rather than actually being increased over the Nox 900 - i.e., the "scales" are using different numbers (so there is not a one-to-one correspondence from a numbers standpoint) but the sensitivity range and high end are roughly equivalent.  The better EMI handling of the M-core is primarily a sort of illusion as a result of "25" (just to pick a number) on the M-core being more quiet than 25 on the Nox, but that "25" on the M-core is more like (25/35) * 28 (Nox 900 full sensitivity setting) = 20 on the 900 and the 800 (assuming a one to one scale correspondence between the 0 to 25 Nox 800 and 900 scales with the Nox having 3 additional units of sensitivity).

It is interesting you point that out as that's what I was starting to think, the scale is just different and a Nox 0 to 25 is in fact the same as the Manticore 0 - 30 and the boosted zone is the 31 to 35 which takes it higher than the original Nox but likely equal to the Nox 900.   It's really hard to prove that however using edge of detection tiny targets is the best way I know of to establish that, and it is correlating to the scales being different with the overall similar sensitivity level when Nox is on 25 and Manticore is on 30, with the extra potential being in the redline zone if it can be used.

The Manticore does seem to handle EMI better if you do for example 25 sensitivity on the Nox and 25 sensitivity on the Manticore however if you run the Manticore at 30 sensitivity where it appears to match the Nox on small gold performance then they are similar with their EMI issues.  If you crank the Manticore up to 35 it's going crazy unless you're in a very secluded place, I've done some lakefront hunting away from houses and powerlines by about a 20 minute drive and 35 ran great with only a few farts and pops and no false ID's.  If they have indeed adjusted the scale of the sensitivity levels it would make the Manticore artificially appear to handle EMI better than the Nox.

I like the long press EMI cancel, I believe it does work better than the standard noise cancel of the Nox 800, it settles on a number.  The short press seems a lot like the Nox, just a random number it lands on, very much like the GPX 6000 too, where as when you do a long press on the Manticore and it settles on a number after bouncing between numbers trying to sort itself out, then after a while it locks onto a number and stays there even if you continue to hold it, you can do another long press and it often settles on the same number.  It really seems like it is doing something, and it does appear to calm down EMI in some situations better than the original Nox, not all where lowering sensitivity is required.

The detectors I've noticed a noise cancel working the best is the GPX 4500/5000 and GPX 7000.  Yes they're slow but they really do work.

I do like the Manticore, it's build quality so far seems exceptional, can't fault it and it's very nice on the arm, the performance might be a bit hyped up by Marketing and this time also engineering, don't know why they brought the big guns of engineering in to market it as if it turns out not as good as they're saying people might start to distrust engineering as much as they do sales and marketing people.  Perhaps with competitors engaging so much with customers they thought using engineers to do some marketing will be a more personal engaged approach that customers will like and they do lap it up. 

[GB_Amateur]

What's been said here and/or being hinted in the last few posts seems to be inconsistent with what Dankowski has been saying on his forum.  I post a link to the thread but warn you it's long and I don't remember where in it he talks about the sensitivity in particular but also EMI.

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,185174,page=18

Note:  I'm not referring to senstitify to tiny gold.  As you all know he's not a native gold detectorist (none of that in his neck of the woods).

[abenson]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

What's been said here and/or being hinted in the last few posts seems to be inconsistent with what Dankowski has been saying on his forum.  I post a link to the thread but warn you it's long and I don't remember where in it he talks about the sensitivity in particular but also EMI.

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,185174,page=18

Note:  I'm not referring to senstitify to tiny gold.  As you all know he's not a native gold detectorist (none of that in his neck of the woods).

The thread you refer to is where I thought I read what I said earlier about 900 on land unless EMI is an issue and Manticore on the Beach. But now I can't find it. So many threads on different forums about the Manticore I'm getting confused.

[strick]

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

This is interesting because up to this point what I've heard is that the M-core handles EMI better than the Nox.  Long press noise cancel and all that (I have some thoughts/Questions on M-core long press noise cancel and whether it is really doing anything really magic vs. just scanning the subset of "quietest" channels and picking one of those - based on my read of the user manual but will save that deep dive for a separate thread).

This is something that I have noticed in a couple areas where EMI was bad. The machine will run quieter but not detect better. Kind like it gets dummed down with the long press... other times (Most) the long press seems to really help the machine. I was going to start a thred about this but did not know how to title it. I think you are on to something here.

So far in most of the places I've used it I really like the machine. Salt water beach at the ocean it's a gem. Fresh water black sand beach full of bottle caps I need to test it more as I was digging more caps then I liked to. Parks round here it's a real treat as I dig no caps to speak of and it gets great depth and separation...cant wait for the small coil. Relic spots here in my lower bay area foot hills it's working good for me as well...I still have not had time to make a trip into the Sierra Nevada hills where the ground is much hotter. I couldn't care less about using it for tiny gold nugget hunting (have other machines that can do that) but I do want to use it to sniff out gold jewelry and I'm still on the fence about it for that...The machine is weighted for coin hunting... thats quickly apparent after several uses. 

strick

[mn90403]

Here is a testing video that seems to fit this thread.