Hunting With The Garrett Apex

[palzynski]

10 hours ago, DIG5050 said:

.... But, again, the D2 cost 3x as much as the Apex.  ...

3x ? Not exactly ..   Here are the local ( French ) prices :

Garrett Apex :  549 E
XP Deus2 WS6 master : 899 E 

==>  899/549 = 1.6x  

 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/fr/

[DIG5050]

Let me rephrase that.  Approx 2yrs ago I bought the D2-9” RC with WS6 and at the time I paid about 3x what I paid for the Apex/WHP. Lower cost options for the D2 are available now. 

[Bob Sickler]

11 hours ago, palzynski said:

3x ? Not exactly ..   Here are the local ( French ) prices :

Garrett Apex :  549 E
XP Deus2 WS6 master : 899 E 

==>  899/549 = 1.6x  

 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/fr/

I dug into my records... I bought my Apex first (USA) on 8/26/2020. It did not come with the MS-3 phones or the Pro-Pointer AT, I already had those from previous Garrett detector purchases. My price was $424.95. Then I purchased the Deus II 11" (USA) on 3/17/2022.  It came with the WS6 headphones and MI-6 pinpointer and cost me $1758.00.

$1758.00/$424.95 = 4.1369572x EXACTLY

Oops! My bad, you were correct, I should have said 4 times as much! OK, so let's play fair and not compare apples to croissants, I'll add current retail prices (which I bet have changed upward from when I got my Apex) of the MS-3 Phones ($107.05) + Pro-Pointer ($144.95) = $252.00

$424.95 Apex + $252.00 Accessories = $676.95 total

Revised... $1758.00/676.95 = 2.5969421x EXACTLY I'd say I estimated fairly close to 3 times as much.

In reality, all I know is what came out of my pocket in the USA was 4 times as much for the Deus II than I paid for my Apex. I had purchased the Deus II to see what all the fervor was about and possibly replace the Apex. I used the Deus II for 6 months to give it a fair trial. Verdict was in, I later sold it in favor of keeping the Apex which I have now used exclusively for nearly 4 years. The Deus II just wasn't my "Croissant"! 🙂

[Chase Goldman]

3 hours ago, Bob Sickler said:

I dug into my records... I bought my Apex first (USA) on 8/26/2020. It did not come with the MS-3 phones or the Pro-Pointer AT, I already had those from previous Garrett detector purchases. My price was $424.95. Then I purchased the Deus II 11" (USA) on 3/17/2022.  It came with the WS6 headphones and MI-6 pinpointer and cost me $1758.00.

$1758.00/$424.95 = 4.1369572x EXACTLY

Oops! My bad, you were correct, I should have said 4 times as much! OK, so let's play fair and not compare apples to croissants, I'll add current retail prices (which I bet have changed upward from when I got my Apex) of the MS-3 Phones ($107.05) + Pro-Pointer ($144.95) = $252.00

$424.95 Apex + $252.00 Accessories = $676.95 total

Revised... $1758.00/676.95 = 2.5969421x EXACTLY I'd say I estimated fairly close to 3 times as much.

In reality, all I know is what came out of my pocket in the USA was 4 times as much for the Deus II than I paid for my Apex. I had purchased the Deus II to see what all the fervor was about and possibly replace the Apex. I used the Deus II for 6 months to give it a fair trial. Verdict was in, I later sold it in favor of keeping the Apex which I have now used exclusively for nearly 4 years. The Deus II just wasn't my "Croissant"! 🙂

At the time Apex came out, Apex was not only the least expensive simultaneous multifrequency (SMF) detector it was also the least expensive detector featuring selectable single frequencies and I praised Garrett for finally showing up to the party with a compelling Detector to go toe to toe with Minelab.  It was at the time a great value for a very capable detector.  Garrett was transparent regarding what user expectations should be regarding its capabilities by appropriately associating it with the Ace product line.  I considered it to be more than an Ace level but not quite as feature rich (and obviously not waterproof) like the AT series.  Make no bones about it, though, the Ace series doesn't mean "entry level" and "lacking performance" it mainly means simple to operate and great value.  As you say, Bob, detecting is more about having a decent site (location) and getting your coil over the target (coverage) and being proficient with and confident in whatever detector you use and less about cost and features, bells, and whistles.

I grant you that when XP then came out with its SMF answer with the D2 and it's typical stratospheric pricing, especially compared to the Equinox and Apex it was fair to highlight the huge cost Delta to make an argument for comparative value.

But 3 years later, it is kind of a stale argument, for two reasons.  One was already pointed out but you appear to have dismissed it.  Namely, there are a myriad of significantly less expensive and capable D2 configurations centered around the WS6 as the master controller.  This highlights one of the most significant strengths of the D2 platform which is wireless component interoperability and reconfigurability which allows the end user to optimize value, capability, or weight as they see fit.  But I'm not here to force you to eat a croissant you don't want, I just wanted to point that out for context.

The second reason I would not necessarily beat the Apex value/cost drum too loudly is that Nokta came along and blew everyone out of the water with their price point for the Legend SMF, basically an Equinox 800 Plus for half the cost...with a great selection of accessory coils. And they continue to update its firmware with more capability and features to this very day.

Again, I am not saying any one detector is "better" than the other here, just commenting on this whole cost, value, "3x this", "4x that", focus. 

Cost and value are important but each major brand offers SMF detectors (XP and Minelab included) at price points similar to Apex for their various SMF offerings.  Therefore, using cost as an argument for or against is a point that is easy to undercut regardless of whatever detector you are talking about.

At this point with SMF detectors basically having similar performance capabilities, hair splitting seems to be the main MO for touting one detector over the other.   

Getting back to basics, the best detector is the one you want to use and do use most frequently.

After all the hot air I just expelled, I am very excited to see Garrett's answer to Apex.  Hopefully, the gathering "Storm" at Garrett will wow me as much as the Apex and Axiom product ammouncements once did.

 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

Palzynski and I are both former Ace Apex owners. We both had some legitimate problems with our purchases that had to be addressed by Garrett.

I really like the Ace Apex. It is one detector that I miss owning because of its excellent display and controls layout. That display and controls layout are one reason that I really like my Garrett Axiom. Another reason is that my Axiom works really well at all of the sites that I have used it.

I just can't say that for the Apex. 

There are many detectors that simply don't fit the ground conditions that I most often hunt in and the Apex is one of them. The same goes for the Minelab Vanquish models and even the Equinox 700, 900, CTX 3030, Etrac and the earlier White's SMF detectors along with every single frequency VLF that I have ever owned.

So all of this is just to say that sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the detector, sometimes its the quality of the location but all of the time, ground conditions rule over all three and the detector I'm using has to be able to first and foremost handle the ground conditions.

[Bob Sickler]

Exactly, Jeff, Chase, of course! I hope you both read my post 3 up from bottom on page 2. It really sums up what I've been trying to present most of my life. I'm sure the Apex works not so great in stronger mineralized regions in the country, but fortunately for me in mine it's been heaven. I was lucky to escape some of the early coil issues.

I only wish the magazine I wrote for years ago would have let me orchestrate my national comparison system so we could all learn the strengths and weaknesses of each brand/model in real ground conditions in different areas of the country... But advertising revenue was bread and butter back then and hurt ego's might have been an issue for the magazine. When comparing detectors, we also have to compare customer support and service, and for my time owning Garrett's, I've never had more efficient and quicker service than theirs, even to this day.

My only retort at comparing prices was to give point that in the end you don't necessarily need to spend a lot of money to enjoy yourself and be comfortable. This was for two detectors I owned and had actual experiences with recently. I'm not talking here to make Garrett sales or hype the "Storm" or even hurt XP, they are all doing just fine without me! I guess on the surface though, it sure looks like that I bet! 🙂

I only hope the new Garrett appeals to me, if it doesn't I'll be just fine still walking behind the Apex or any other detector for that matter that earns my praise.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Jeff McClendon said:

So all of this is just to say that sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the detector, sometimes its the quality of the location but all of the time, ground conditions rule over all three and the detector I'm using has to be able to first and foremost handle the ground conditions.

Good point regarding the ground conditions.  Some detectors that do great on neutral ground, cannot handle that environment, requiring a different tool, usually a PI.

[Chase Goldman]

31 minutes ago, Bob Sickler said:

Exactly, Jeff, Chase, of course! I hope you both read my post 3 up from bottom on page 2.

I did, that's why I paraphrased you in my post.  Basically, it's not the tool you chose to use that necessarily makes the most difference (although in some environments, like salt water and hot dirt, specific tools may not cut it) but how and where you use it.

32 minutes ago, Bob Sickler said:

When comparing detectors, we also have to compare customer support and service, and for my time owning Garrett's, I've never had more efficient and quicker service than theirs, even to this day.

Totally agree with that, Garrett's personalized customer service in the US is unrivaled.

[Bob Sickler]

17 hours ago, palzynski said:

3x ? Not exactly ..   Here are the local ( French ) prices :

Garrett Apex :  549 E
XP Deus2 WS6 master : 899 E 

==>  899/549 = 1.6x  

 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/fr/

 

 

Hey Palzynski... I owe you an apology. I thought you were picking up on something I wrote earlier about price comparisons. When I hit submit, I then (duh!) looked up and read you were replying to I think DIG5050 instead. I didn't mean to pick on you. Being a diabetic, I just get a little feisty when I haven't eaten lunch yet! 🙂 The Deus II was actually a good detector when I owned it. I'm basically a closet "gadget person" like everyone else and was attracted to it... But, because of my declining eyesight, I've never been a fan of cascaded menuing and tiny displays, at least for my eyes! You can hit me with a "Bagel" anytime you like! 🙂

[palzynski]

10 hours ago, Bob Sickler said:

Hey Palzynski... I owe you an apology. I thought you were picking up on something I wrote earlier about price comparisons. When I hit submit, I then (duh!) looked up and read you were replying to I think DIG5050 instead. I didn't mean to pick on you. Being a diabetic, I just get a little feisty when I haven't eaten lunch yet! 🙂 The Deus II was actually a good detector when I owned it. I'm basically a closet "gadget person" like everyone else and was attracted to it... But, because of my declining eyesight, I've never been a fan of cascaded menuing and tiny displays, at least for my eyes! You can hit me with a "Bagel" anytime you like! 🙂

No pb Bob  ... As Jeff said we both have had issues with our Apex ( both electronics and mechanical issues for me ) . It looks like you ve been more lucky than us ... 🙂

I hope that Garrett has solved them now because I like the Apex design with its slim control box  . I like light detectors and the Apex is very cumfortable to use with the excellent Ripper coil .. It is very user friendly too ..

I like simple things too and I agree that the D2 is complex with its 12 modes , multiple submenus and settings/subsettings .. Hopefully we have Gary Blackwell's videos/tutos .. 🙂