Minelab And Customer Communications

[Steve Herschbach]

The latest on Minelab and Kellyco service

[Jonathan Porter]

12 hours ago, jasong said:

One question I have with this whole new global marketplace is why are there still dealers if they don't service anything or provide any other service other than sales? Aren't they just a middle man at that point inflating the price of the goods? If the internet didn't exist I could understand it because they provide local outlets for sales, but most of the sales are done over the internet/phone today anyways, many (or even most) dealers don't even have physical store locations anymore. It seems to me this subject has come up once before but I can't remember if it was here or not and it seems relevant to the subject matter.

I understand some provide training when it comes to gold detectors and some customers find good value in this, but with the markup in price that dealers take as profit up to 35% on some models, it's hardly worth it for many of us, especially for those who don't want the training. Especially considering guided trips/training can be bought for much less.

Again, one of those things that are tough to say/ask without offending someone and offense is not my intention at all, but if I don't understand then I'm sure some others don't as well too so I think it's a fair question related to the subject if we're heading towards a mega-repair outlet handling everything.

Can we just skip the dealer inflation and buy directly if it's all the same in the end?

The other direct implication is you end up with "preferential pricing" where friends of dealers all get one price, the people who know that you can wheel and deal on the MSRP get another slightly higher price (the 15% "military discount" as one example, quotes intentional because we all know it's not just military), and then the uninitiated pay full or close to full price. I don't find that to be right personally.

My business is built around service and advice and TRAINING, all of this is based around my spending my whole adult life living and breathing what I do and it is all provided in a small town with only 2000 residents right on the goldfields.  Every winter we are inundated by people who've purchased their detectors from dealers in the cities where the main populations reside, desperately seeking information about how to use their metal detectors. I can assure you I make far less per detector sale than a "Box shifter" dealer because I invest time into the customer to make sure they at least have a good grounding on how to use their new purchase. 

Lastly if there were no dealers do you honestly think the price would drop by the dealer margin? Metal detector manufacturers need people like us to sell the story. Our incentive is the margin, a lot of which we then invest back into the customer, assuming there is any left because of all the discounting done by the larger dealers in the population centers away from the goldfields!!

JP

 

[Norvic]

My journey in this magic hobby was helped big time by my local dealer, he even posted new detectors and coils for me to test if he considered they were of interest to me. I live in a remote area and receive most everything by mail.

Whilst I understand and use online purchasing, nothing can replace the personalised service of a good dealer. As Fred says just to have a visit and "squeeze the tomatoes" is very worthwhile. But I suspect the writing is on the wall, and as JP questions will we get our detectors cheaper once dealers are a thing of the past? Don`t think so, we`ll just lose that personalised service, but this thread illustrates this is happening in the US and the signs in OZ aren`t good either.

[jasong]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Lastly if there were no dealers do you honestly think the price would drop by the dealer margin? Metal detector manufacturers need people like us to sell the story. Our incentive is the margin, a lot of which we then invest back into the customer, assuming there is any left because of all the discounting done by the larger dealers in the population centers away from the goldfields!!

JP

 

I didn't say it'd drop by the dealer margin, but yes I do think they'd drop, especially if it got rid off all the MAP/MSRP/backroom bargaining stuff and the bigger stores could start selling for discounts if we are already going to have to deal with the bigger stores anyways, might as well save a step and buy from them too. When the GPZ first came out and listed for $10,700, there were dealers selling for around $7000 to their buddies and their buddies buddies and their buddies buddies buddies here in the US. That's a huge amount of wiggle room. 

I understand dealers like you, who maintain a brick and mortar shop, who have a solid and long reputation as both a prospector and tester whom people can actually learn from, I see the value in that for the customers. But the reality here in the US is that most dealers are not like that. Some are nothing more than a phone number for a part time prospector in his house, who might have used the machine a handful of times.

The last purchase I made, I agreed to not take the training and not call with problems or issues. Which was fine, because I didn't want the training and I knew I could deal with Minelab directly anyways (apparantly that's now changed). But at that point...I just don't see the point of a dealer anymore if they literally are doing nothing but "box shifting" as you put it.

But, it goes further, and there is another reason I don't see the purpose for dealers here in the US: I really had no issue with this weird pricing scheme and dealers who didn't appear to serve a purpose, since for decades the used market stayed high due to the arbitrarily high pricing of the detectors themselves, and I didn't have to like the system as long as I could just resell and recoup whatever I paid and everything evened out. But when ML deflated the price so soon after Z release it really changed my perspective and I'm not afraid to talk about it, even if it ruffles some feathers. Because it made it essential to play this stupid deal making game if you didn't want to get ripped off by a price change, but that means it essentially comes down to being friends with a dealer now and preferential pricing. The customer pays for the detector, we have to play the game, and we get left holding the bag when the prices drop. Yet we are expected not to talk about this "secret" method of doing business or we get trash talked by the dealers themselves for their own game. I don't like it at all.

I think it'd be nice to have the "discounted" option just available for those who want it, without having to play all these games where we automatically the get the 15% off or whatever would be found tenable. That still leaves a healthy profit for a store if they aren't offering training or anything else.

And then seperately, have dealers who are like you, who are actual full time prospectors, who understand the things they sell, and the customer can choose which route they want to take when they make the purchase. Or, someone could take the money they saved on the purchase directly and pay for training/trips with someone like you and you could continue to sell the story that way too if that's what sells detectors.

 

[Geotech]

A little late on the topic...

On 5/10/2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

There is this however. How many of you know engineers? Have you spent a lot of time talking to engineers? They are not really famous for communication skills. They might think they are communicating, but they are speaking a different language. Their brains are often wired differently than "regular folks". Yeah, it is a cliche, but cliches are often based on a certain reality.

I've known and worked with a whole lot of engineers. The cliches are largely true, and Dilbert paints a fairly accurate picture of the engineering mind. When I tell people that I'm an engineer, I often see that sad look in their eyes that says, "Oh, bless your heart." My partner had that look when I first told her; now she says, "Ya know, for an engineer, you're pretty self-aware."

On 5/11/2017 at 0:18 PM, Rick Kempf said:

 My colleague smiled and said "I understand it's not rocket science – I am a rocket scientist - and I don't understand it"

Right out of college I worked at NASA-KSC. Only for 5 months, but ever since then my resume says "Rocket Scientist -- NASA" as a joke. Another engineer got annoyed at my joke because he thought I was trying to be a braggart. He didn't get it. Engineers often don't.

[Andyy]

Well I was kind of hoping this thread would be about suggestions for Minelab improvements.  Instead I get to hear what people really think about engineers.. ha..ha..  I myself am a mechanical engineer and yes I have to look myself in the mirror each day.  LOL.  Much of what has been said is true, unfortunately.  Engineers have an insatiable appetite for learning but in general, are very poor at communicating on the most basic level.   But I can still laugh at myself about it and hope that I am outside of the standard histogram ... errrr... (see I just can't hold back)...

But it is my engineering background which drew me into metal detecting and studying geology in hopes of finding more gold.   Like engineering, there is always more to learn.  For me, this hobby is perfect for working off a little steam, making me put down my calculator and getting me out of the cubicle as much as possible.  And in the process I get to speak with a lot of bright people on this forum and make some pretty good friendships in the process.   Priceless.   (well at least until they find out i am an engineer)  ;)

[Steve Herschbach]

Well Andyy for what it is worth I revere engineers as the magician/gods of our civilization. I toured Cape Canaveral and the sum brilliance of what engineers working together can do is jaw-dropping awe inspiring. Anyone that ever gets the chance needs to go see the products of our space program up close and personal.

Plus my wife was a Project Management Engineer and my daughter has a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering. I'm laughing with you not at you! I am a computer nerd that somehow ended up in sales and marketing...

[phoenix]

I think Kelly Bundy would make a good engineer, or may be a professor.   This is out of one of the episodes 

"I'll set you up with this scientist I know at the university.  All you do, pretend you're a professor.
Okay, but, I mean, I think I'd make a more convincing Ginger or Mary Ann don't you think? 
You must be the new professor.
  You must be Gilligan.
  Hi.
Kelly Bundy at your service.
So Bud tells me you're in aerospace.
Yeah, well it's not rocket science, but what is? Right.
So what are you working on now?
 Well, I just received a grant from the Crayola company to invent a new colour.    Bleen.
Bleen? Is that a mixture of blue and green? 
No, of blood and spleen. You know, it's for the kids who wanna draw accidents.  
Yeah. Really? You would think that Crayola would have enough colours already.
Well, not anymore.  See, they had to get rid of black and white you know, to be politically correct. They were gonna mix the two together and call it blite but the guy who invented grey back in '74 threatened to sue, so All right.
So, what's your field? 
- Alchogorentology.
- Oh, right. What's alchorathincology?
 It's a study of that age- old question:  How much booze can a rat drink before he explodes?"

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=married-with-children&episode=s10e05

[jasong]

I said I would report back here if I received a new detector from Nokta - they have sent me a new Fors Core directly instead of going through Kellyco after my issues there, which I received today. Haven't had a chance to open it up and test it out yet, but that was good to see.