D&P-OR

Nokta Impact Vs G2 / F19 On Gold

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Hello everyone.----Steve, I respect your input & opinions--always have!----Here's a couple of questions I have for you.---Considering detector performance---With the Nokta Impact running at 20 kHz and the G2+/F-19 with their 19 kHz---IYO, which one of these detectors would give the best performance for hunting for (smallish) gold?-----Also, there has been a lot said (hype?) about the Impact with its 5, 14 & 20 kHz frequencies being able to replace other detectors running in that range.---A sort of "one for all" (if you will).-----Do you feel that could truly be the case?-------I said two questions---here's another one! :smile:  What is your "overall" opinion of the Nokta Impact?-------Thanks--------------Del

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nokta-impact-3-frequency-metal-detector.jpg

One of my projects for this summer is to get a more detailed answer to that question. The short answer is I personally think that for just chasing gold nuggets with stock coils the units you mention are close enough as far as performance so as to not matter to me. 18 - 19 - 20 kHz is dead, beat to death, and each new one is as good as and no better than any of the rest for gold nuggets. Just look at the overall feature list and pick whichever floats your boat. If all you care about is nuggets a Gold Bug 19 kHz model will do as well as any mentioned at under 3 lbs and for less money.

The part about the Nokta Impact that intrigues me is the 15.5" x 14" DD coil. In general large coils can be counterproductive on hotter VLF machines for two reasons. First, units like the Gold Bug Pro are actually too light, and hanging a large heavy coil off the front of them is an ergonomic nightmare. That Fisher 15" DD on any of the machines it is made for really sucks to swing. The Impact on the other hand is almost made to handle large coils - much better balance. Next to my Garrett ATX and Minelab GPZ the Impact with 15" coil will be the light weight option!

The other problem with single frequency detectors is a large coil "sees" too much ground. At higher frequencies this works against the machine in high mineral ground. There is too much blowback from the ground, and the operator has to lower the sensitivity by a large amount to compensate. The net result is in bad ground you often get no more depth with a large coil on a 18 kHz and higher unit, and possibly even less depth in severe ground. Usually a large coil just gets you more ground coverage.

nokta-impact-15-13-dd-coil.jpg

However, in lower mineral ground a large coil on a hot VLF can act like a "poor mans PI" but with full discrimination. Yet because of the issues outlined above some hot VLF detectors don't offer coils larger than about 14" x 8" in size, even if you wanted one. The Impact does. 

The kicker is that the Impact, much like the Minelab Eureka Gold, can switch to lower frequencies. If I have the 15.5" x 14" DD on the Impact, I would start at 20 kHz. If I got into bad ground, I would first lower sensitivity. If forced to drop below 70 or so (to be determined) I would go to 14 kHz and push the gain back up. If I were forced at 14 kHz to drop under sensitivity 70 (guessing still), I would now drop to 5 kHz and push the gain back to max. If 5 kHz is not working, time to go to smaller coil or break out a PI.

The Deus has my interest because it also can frequency switch, but again large coils are not a great idea due to the physical design, so in the case of the Deus it is the high frequency small coil that has my greatest interest. The Impact is just the opposite - it is the large coil option that has my interest.

I don't think the commentary about the Impact being able to replace many other detectors running in the 5 - 20 kHz range is hype, but it is not anything unusual either. There are piles of great do it all machines out there that can all be said to replace many other machines. The fact is however all have little areas where one might be better than another. I think the Impact has an edge over the CTX for gold nuggets. But the CTX has the edge for salt water detecting. So it goes for almost any pair of detectors you want to pick for me to discuss. The one perfect do everything detector has yet to be invented. I am however on a quest to try and find one VLF detector that comes closest to fitting the bill for me personally in that department.

Some commentary on Impact, Deus and G2 here

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The handle on the impact looks very comfortable, the whole design is superb which looks to be less of a pain on the joints and wrists than the S - Handle style. If the performance matches the looks..this detector would make a nice backup to a GPX. 

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Handles are like hiking boots - different fits for different people. I do not have large hands, and I find the Tek G2+ tapered oval handle as pictured above (same as T2 & F75) to be perfect for me. My hand also really likes the GPX grip. My hand does not like a hard grip as much - the ATX rock hard post needs foam -but it mostly is about shape. The Impact post is harder than most and slightly squared off. Not bad, but I think for me it needs a single wrap of foam tape not only to soften it up but to round it off, though I really don't need it to be any larger diameter. Another person might come to exactly the opposite conclusion.

The balance of the Impact however is perfect due to the weight being to the rear. It feels lighter than the 4.26 lbs would imply. Right at a pound lighter than my CTX 3030, another well balanced machine. I like the rounded oval type grip on my CTX better than the rounded square Impact grip.

Big plus of Impact over CTX - three piece rod assembly with lower rods that cost $19 versus hard to pack CTX two piece design with lower rods that cost from $100 aftermarket to $175 genuine article!

CTX waterproof and Impact not.

Click on photos for closeup view.

nokta-impact-vs-minelab-ctx-3030-metal-detector.jpg

nokta-impact-handle-vs-ctx-3030-grip.jpg

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Thanks Steve.-----I read your other post on the Deus, Impact & G2 also---very informative.------Del

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Frequency is just one aspect. Ground balance, and more importantly Audio and threshold stability are what propels or sinks any potential gold machine.

Can't speak of the G2 or F19 as I haven't used either, but the Impact has excellent audio, and the iSat adjustment is very effective.  It also has a very adjustable audio tone in the all-metal mode. 

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Well Nenad to put it in more familiar terms, how does the Impact at 20 kHz compare to the X-Terra 705 running at 18.75 kHz, both in all metal "Prospect" modes with roughly equivalent coils?

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Haven't put them side-by-side yet.

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My bet without even using them side by side is that "the units mentioned are close enough as far as performance so as to not matter to me."

Sorry, but I really am getting bored with 13-20 kHz single frequency in particular. If the Impact could not frequency switch I would hardly be giving it a look myself. I guess it was the AT Max that broke me. I saw it and thought "Just Another Mid Frequency Detector". Boring!

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  • Similar Content

    • By Steve Herschbach
      There is a previous thread with a lot of speculation about just what is going on with a couple of the Nokta Impact all metal modes, the Gen(D) and Sta(D) modes. The thought was that they are mixed modes - in other words modes that are running both all metal and disc in parallel.
      The speculation garnered attention and we have now been provided this explanation directly from Nokta Software Team Leader Alper Tozan regarding these 2 modes: 

      ''I read a lot of comments about Gen (D) and STA (D) modes in some forums and firstly, I want to thank you about all your positive thoughts. On the other hand, I want to clarify one thing. In some forum discussions, these modes are defined as ‘’mix modes’’. These modes are not mix modes as mix modes typically result from at least two different software algorithms or hardware circuits working at the same time for decision making to discriminate and detect metals. These mix modes also show characteristics of two or more different modes at the same time including handicaps of each signal processing. 

      Gen (D) mode, on the other hand, is a true threshold based all metal mode with motion that can discriminate metal without needing any other hardware or higher order software process level. So it always behaves like a classical true threshold based all metal mode but with iron tone and tone break.''
      Frankly, for me that raises almost as many questions as it answers. Is an all metal mode that discriminates an all metal mode? Is it not instead a different kind of ferrous/non-ferrous discrimination mode? Whatever it is, it is unique, and that's enough for me! So I will do what I normally do and ignore what is going on under the hood and pay attention to just what it is these modes actually achieve by way of useful results in the field. More on that at a later date.
      From Nokta Impact Owners Manual, pages 12-13:
      Static Mode (STA)
      This is a non-motion mode. In other words, the device will generate an audio response when you hold the coil stationary without swinging over the target. The audio response increases in volume as the coil approaches the target. This mode is recommended for larger and deeper metals.
      In the STA mode, the device will generate the same audio tone for all metals and it will display the target ID on screen. At the same time, the ID scale will fill up to the right in proportion to the signal strength.
      Target ID range is 00-99. 00-40 are ferrous and 41-99 are non-ferrous metals. You can discriminate out all IDs below a certain ID by using the Disc. setting and simply avoid these metals in the field.
      When the device detects a discriminated metal, it will not produce an audio response or an ID. However, the ID scale will fill up to the right in proportion to the signal strength.
      The threshold in this mode is internal and cannot be adjusted by the user. Changes in the ground and temperature may lead to drifts in the threshold. Threshold drifts will be reflected in the ID scale either in the positive way (right side) or the negative way (left side). The device may emit an audible response in the positive drifts but not in the negative ones. When the threshold drifts, pull the trigger once to retune the detector. Retuning periodically while searching in this mode is recommended.
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    • By Treasuredude
      Hi All,
      A while back, I was going to buy the Rutus Alter 71, but, decided to wait for the Nokta Impact to be released.  So, I went to an event in New Hampshire called BONE, (Best of the North East).  I was hunting in a natural hunt on private property.  I had just received my Impact on the April 21, and hunted on the 26th, and 27th.  The place was a large farm with plowed fields, large open grass areas, and woods.  The first day, I hunted a plower field, and the large grass area.  I have to say that the Impact is so easy to use and set up.  I started with the stock coil 7x11, DI3, 20khz, sen at 85, iron set a 2, default dis.  At the end of the first day, I found the piece of a buckle in the plowed field, and a small button and half of a silver tumble in the grass areas.  The Impact would sound off on the iron to let me know it was there, but with this iron volume, it was not annoying.  Good targets were loud, but the iron tones soft. This was an excellent feature that I like very much.  So on day two, I decided to hunt in the woods where an old cellar hole was.  This was a site of an 1745 tavern.  I set up in Deep mode, 20khz, stock coil, sen at 70, iron volume on 1, and default dis.  As I stated to detect, I could hear iron all over the place, plus there was an electric fence that was causing others with Deus and CTX 3030 trouble.  But my Impact ran very smooth. As I made my way around the perimeter, I continued to hear mass iron until I got a solid signal reading at 71 at about 8 inches.  I dug down 6 inches and hit a rock, checked the hole again, and could hear the target, but also the iron all around on both sides.  I removed the rock and I could see what looked to be a thin coin.  To my surprise, it was an  King George II 1749 farthing in excellent condition.  I continued to hunt and a foot to my right, I got a another strong signal reading 83.  At 4 inches down, I recovered a King George II half pence 1787.  I couldn't believe it, I checked my hole again, and got another 83 with iron all around the target.  I removed a second large copper without a date, but looks to be the same.  I also found a large button and round piece of lead used for corks back then.  So, everything I found was from the 1700 era.  In closing,  this is what impressed me about the Impact.  It is well balanced, easy to use and set up, and offers  lots of features.  As an retired Garrett, Teknetics, Makro,  Whites, and XP dealer, I have used a lot of detectors, and I have never found any to be able to find targets in the iron like the Impact.  I not saying it the best out there, or better then the rest. But, it does a great job in iron and offers great value for its price point.  I am not a tester, just an end user, and I am glad that I purchased the Impact.
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    • By Nokta Detectors
      Dear Valued Members,

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    • By Steve Herschbach
      I have now put enough time on all these units to at least reach a basic conclusion in my own mind. And that is that they are far more alike than different. Trying to get clear differences to appear in actual field use in highly mineralized ground is a true exercise in hair splitting.
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      15 kHz - Nokta FORS Gold and FORS CoRe
      19 kHz - Fisher Gold Bug Pro, F19, Teknetics G2
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      I have to say it all just boils very much down to the feature list, and again, they line up pretty well. The less expensive Gold Bug Pro and G2 have a more limited feature set than the F19. The F75 has the most options for tones and settings at the highest price on the list. The Nokta units at their new lower price are a real good value.
      For me when it came down to actual performance the Gold Bug Pro/ F19 were so close to the FORS models I let the two Fishers go and kept the Nokta. Basically just to get the automatic ground tracking which can be very useful in variable ground but also the three tone option, which is nice for coin detecting. I also like the way the Nokta units balance better with larger coils. All I can tell anyone at this point if you want a detector to use for nugget detecting and also for other purposes, the Gold Bug Pro/F19/G2/FORS Gold and FORS CoRe are so close in actual field use that it will all come down to the operator and ground variations. I think the machines are a toss up from a performance perspective and so just line up the feature list and go with whatever floats your boat. I think for sheer value at this time the Nokta FORS models are tough to beat.

      The T2 and F75 give up a slight edge on small low conductors. What this means is that all the previously mentioned models are better for smaller gold nuggets. The trade off is the T2 and F75 are better all around detectors for general purpose use, gaining in coin and other high end conductors some slight advantage simply because the machines are not quite so sparky on tiny non-ferrous trash. In moderate to low mineral ground conditions the T2 and F75 have a clear depth advantage on high conductive coins but in very mineralized ground the advantage is nearly non-existent.
      In my case at least I feel like there is a 90% overlap between my latest version F75 and the two FORS models. If I head out the door right this second to go hunt coins I am more likely to grab the F75 as I like the extra tone schemes. There is the 3H mode that gives a high tone beep on all normal coins but also takes US nickels, which usually reads as a mid tone, and puts it up in the high tone range also. This is a great cherry picking mode. The standard 4 tone mode is great for cherry picking jewelry digging the low mid tones. I like the big screen and the backlight, etc. So I am also keeping my F75.
      But if I was heading out the door chasing gold nuggets right now in a really trashy location and not wanting to use a PI, I would grab the FORS instead. It pulls low conductors like small gold nuggets out of the ground better than the F75. Not by a huge margin, but enough to matter to me.
      And that is where it will stay for now. I am waiting to get my hands on the new Makro Racer models this summer, and using the F75 and FORS plus Racer units all summer. Then proceeding to phase two of the weeding process. I am trying very hard to get my detector collection down to just a couple PI detectors and a couple VLF detectors. It is down to that stage of the game however where it just needs a lot more in field use to let things sort out for me.
      What I can leave you with for sure right now however is that these are all very good detectors that are ridiculously close in performance. You really just can't go wrong with any of them. Mid frequency VLF technology has matured to the point where it is almost impossible for anyone to really stand out from a performance standpoint. Nearly all the performance debates I see on the internet about these models boils down to differences in ground mineralization more than the machines themselves. Just find one that feels right on your arm and sounds good to your ear and get to work!
      This is very much a work in progress and so as I get a chance to use the large coils or hunt under different ground conditions if I come up with anything if interest I will add it here. There is a related thread on VDI numbers and tones at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/526-fors-gold-f75-v3i-tone-and-vdi-tidbits/
      For detailed information on each model plus the latest prices visit Steve's Guide to Gold Nugget Detectors
    • By Steve Herschbach
      Some random notes, and if you don't know what I am talking about as regards some detail of this machine or that I apologize. 
      Well, I finally updated my XP Deus with 11" coil to the version 4 update. Then I hauled it and the Nokta Impact with 11" and Teknetics G2 with 11" out for several hours of cross checking coin type targets. The G2 is a Gold Bug Pro variant running at 19 kHz and I put it up against the Deus at 18 kHz and Impact at 20 kHz. I acquired the G2 new recently to use specifically as a benchmark unit because I am very familiar with it and because in my opinion it does 19 kHz as well as it can be done. I spent hours swapping machines as the hunt machine, then cross checking the undug targets with the other two. Lots of settings tried, with the main goal to try and find some deep fringe type target or target in trash where any machine can get a clear and definable edge.
      Well good luck with that. All I mainly did was impress myself again with what a little powerhouse the Gold Bug Pro/G2 is for the price. It is fairly mineralized ground but not the worst, 5 bars out of 7 on the G2 Fe3O4 meter, ground balance about 86. The only real "aha" moment was in learning the Impact really likes to upscale shallow small foil when in 5 kHz mode, but shoves the id back down to where it should be at 14 kHz or 20 kHz. All the machines like to upscale deeper aluminum in this ground.

      All three seemed to get tricked in much the same way on certain targets, like a deep pull tab reading like a dime. For gold hunting purposes I do not mind machines upscaling low conductive targets, and in fact the Impact 5khz mode may have a benefit in nugget detecting because it does want to push light foil (and therefore small gold) higher. But for coin detecting upscaling aluminum is annoying. Pretty much par for the course however for mid to higher single frequency machines.
      I found running the Impact in VLX1 was nice as I could flip over just one click to the Gen(D) mixed mode program for a dramatically different read and better target definition. Target id numbers in my ground are slightly higher in the "expanded ferrous" modes like VLX1 and VLX2 compared to DI3 and DI4.
      The Deus V4 Gold Field program does seem to pack some extra punch now, be fun to get it out nugget hunting once the elliptical coil hits the streets. The new Deep mode really seems great while the new Hot mode is, shall I say it, interesting. First time I have used the X-Y screens also. 
      The G2 is what it is, almost no controls but it gets the job done with what it has, and good solid id. Deus and Impact in the other hand have countless options and programs to try, but by and large there is no magic bullet. Three great machines, I can hunt with any of them. It will take a lot more hours to sort it all out.

      I find when running machines that are all hitting the VLF Wall that it is the "other things" that get my notice. The Impact is obviously the heavier of the three (4 lbs 4.7 oz / 1946 grams), although very well balanced, so I give the feel on my arm award to the G2 (3 lbs 1.5 oz / 1404 grams) and the Deus (2 lbs 4.0 oz / 1020 grams with 11" coil and control box). The G2 and Deus are neck and neck in the comfort department FOR ME* but the G2 feels ever so slightly better to me, I am guessing because the coil is lighter on the G2. The G2 slays both the Impact and Deus for speaker volume if run without headphones, but on the other hand it has no volume control so would be too loud for some situations.
      Been awhile since I ran a Gold Bug Pro / G2 unit and caught myself when switching from disc mode to all metal when cross checking at one point and forgetting that the "big number" changes from target id in disc mode to ground phase in all metal mode, so I was looking at the ground phase instead of the little speedometer thinking it was target id for a couple goes. That one quirk always had me liking the F75 versus the Bug in all metal. I wish Fisher made a 19 kHz F75!

      *On arm comfort is a very subjective subject. In particular it has a great deal to do with the size of a persons hands plus length and thickness of their forearm, and their height. You really can't take any one persons word on this subject as it is like buying hiking boots. What fits one person does not fit another. It is not all about detector weight by a long shot. Balance is very important as is the all important hand grip. I am 5' 11" with forearms on the thinner side and smallish hands. For instance, my forearm really bounces around in the large Impact armrest area. The Deus armrest which may be too small for some fits me better. For me personally, the 3.5 lb Teknetics T2 / Fisher F75 is the most comfortable detector I have ever used. It is superbly balanced and something about the hand grip that narrows to the top as it cants forward really makes my hand happy. I can squeeze the armrest shut to fit my arm. So if you find the F75 to be a great fit for you, my comments apply to you. If you hate the T2/F75 setup then what I have to say is less important.
    • By Steve Herschbach
      Just posted April 26 - regular users are getting their hands on the Impact now. Some nice finds plus some lessons in what not to do....