phrunt

So, discrimination seems to be dismissed as a viable option on the GPZ 8000 although I still hope they can do it, so what can they possibly do to the GPZ 7000 to make it worth the upgrade investment to buy a GPZ 8000? I'm a bit puzzled where they could go, it was obvious with the GPX 5000 they needed to lighten it up and give it better small gold performance and it was well known they were capable of doing both of these things evident by the SDC and GPZ being better on small gold than the GPX 5000 and the weight loss is helped by technology advancements over time along with using lighter materials for the structural build although I think they took it too far causing some quality issues with the lighter design though as evident by the cracking coils. Seeing small gold is most of the gold left in the ground anywhere it makes sense for manufacturers to focus on it but the GPZ 7000 is already virtually as capable of small gold detection as the GPX 6000 when using a small coil and it has the benefit of the extra depth on a range of sizes of gold over the other detectors. Yes they can lighten it up, as long as they don't sacrifice build quality like they did with the 6000 that would be a nice move but not one worth spending 10k on an upgrade unless you're a very serious heavy duty user out all day everyday finding gold. A lighter GPZ 7000 certainly wouldn't be enough for me to upgrade, it would take a lot more than weight. They can put in a faster processor to stop the lagging interface and incorporate Bluetooth LE like the modern detectors for better wireless audio although the WM12 system works pretty well and it's easy to just add a Bluetooth LE transmitter and save 10 grand on the upgrade. They could put in a speaker like they did with the 6000 but that didn't quite go to plan with the speaker causing basically a massive recall and the fact the speaker is pretty quiet means the 6000 speaker idea wasn't overly a success story so they'd need to rethink that and if it's even worth doing. So, where can they go? What could they do to make a GPZ 8000 appealing and worth the purchase to those already with a 7000? I've told myself I'm not going to buy one unless its a significant improvement over the 7000 and at this stage unless they shock me I don't see how they could have a significant improvement. I wasn't really shocked with the GPX 6000 and its performance, they did what they needed to do and it was all stuff that seemed within the current technological barriers, nothing really new although they came up with a fancy buzzword with Geosense. The auto settings adjustment seems a nice feature that they started working on with the VLF's like the Gold Monster and it works well I think but I wouldn't want Geosense on my 7000 just the same, I like it how it is for settings control and have never wished it would automatically adjust things for me. Maybe they have something up their sleeve that we don't know about, time will tell I guess but it would have to be significantly better than the GPZ 7000 and the GPX 6000 to be worth bringing it to market as most buyers in a very limited customer pool would be upgrading from a previous detector like the 7000 or 6000.

How awesome is it that the speaker can just pop off with one screw and be replaced, I bet Nokta wish they thought of that one with the Legend and it's dodgy speakers. It seems the speaker is a part that fails in detectors so having a replaceable speaker like that is a brilliant idea. I like the accelerometer too, detecting sweep speed and adjusting accordingly. The Air metal detector looks pretty cool I think, seems to have plenty of advanced features, it must do the processing in the coil. I see it having a place and might get sales in non traditional metal detector markets. The Pinpointer that auto turns off and on when you remove it from its holster is an awesome idea. Quest seem very innovative, I suspect they're going to grow rapidly becoming one of the main manufacturers in no time.

Even people here have come out with a way to detect iron, being magnetic surely makes it something that with time and effort engineers could work out a way to discriminate, maybe not using traditional methods but perhaps there are other ways, like magnetometers although I'm sure that would be flawed in some of the ground here where there is crazy amounts of black sand. If the GPZ had GPX 5000 discrimination incorporated that worked because of ZVT coils in a way like the Axiom where you just press a button to check a target I would find it a valuable feature, every feature has limitations and can cause you to miss targets so it's obvious you'd use it if you had to knowing you may miss targets because of it. If they can't do it with current technology hopefully they can come up with something new to be able to do it.

I think give it time, they're running out of ways to improve performance on detectors and often hold back certain models to ensure viability of other models, what's next? What do we think they can possibly do to make a GPZ 8000 or GPX 7000? Already models are separating performance that could be incorporated into a single detector by design. Depth is the GPZ, small targets was the SDC and now it's the GPX 6000, the GPX 5000 is the versatile unit that can do it all but not quite as well in some areas, perhaps by design. Could they put this all into one detector? I believe so, the GPZ is certainly VERY capable of very small targets with the right coil, I believe in many cases better than the GPX 6000, it also seems to handle difficult ground almost good a the GPX 5000, this is another area the 6000 is lacking, put it in some types of hot rocks and it's a nightmare that the other models cope with fine. Combine all three detectors best attributes and you have a killer machine. The final frontier I think is discrimination, can they make these high end gold machines discriminate targets well? Who knows, nobody, that's what inventions are, new technology that doesn't currently exist. The 5000 at least has semi capable discrimination, they dumped it off the newer detectors but if they put the resources into discrimination I think they could return discrimination into a newer model with good results, it may require new people with new ideas over the old hands. Metal detectors unfortunately for us have very limited investment into R&D, imagine if they were more mainstream products like mobile phones, Apple, Samsung, Google or any of the big brand names putting massive investment into improving the technology behind them, I'm sure in that instance we would be seeing jumps in leaps and bounds over what we see now, many of the improvements we see now are side effects of investment in technology in other areas, the Bluetooth audio and faster processors, nothing to do with metal detectors and if metal detectors were their primary purpose we wouldn't even see the improvements we do see now, they're designed for other purposes and metal detector manufacturers benefit from that. I hope in a few years time we are looking back at current non-discriminating gold detectors as primative beasts, I hope we see Target ID's on ZVT, possible? I hope so and if so the coin, jewellery and relic hunters are in for a real treat.

You better hope that Kiwi guy doesn't have a big following of Kiwi prospectors, he'll start a gold rush of us all flooding over there in winter to find some bigger lumps, I think a few of us tiny gold hunters could possibly do quite well tracking down the bigger bits ? He did a good video, a nice watch and obviously found some great gold. He didn't need the latest and greatest tools to do well in that area, his pick, scoop and detector are all a bit average but he did extremely well.

The X-Terra is just a bit ahead of the mainstream having Bluetooth LE, soon the market is going to have plenty of generic headphones and ear buds that are Bluetooth LE being the new standard Bluetooth version, and then headphones assuming Minelab hasn't done some silly lock-down to only their headphones will be easy to get at cheap prices. Bluetooth LE is also effortlessly better than older Bluetooth versions so it is a massive positive they're using it, not a negative in any way. If it's not locked to their headphones I'd prefer a detector doesn't come with headphones so I can get whatever I like if I want any at all.

I believe the CTX 3030 used to be able to capture screenshots, they disabled it in a later firmware I think, I've never tried it so maybe it does still work. They talk about it in this Treasuretalk. https://www.minelab.com/community/treasure-talk/ctx-3030-snapshot-feature Not quite as good as what you're describing but someway there, and it would only be a feature on a detector with internal memory for storage like the GPZ and CTX so the likes of the Equinox and Manticore would need an entire new model to be able to do it, not just a firmware modification unfortunately. All I want now in a detector is more depth (if ever possible), louder internal speakers (I'm talking to you GPX 6000) and more coils, other than that, I'm satisfied. I've run out of ideas what I'd want in a new model detector as I'm happy as can be with what I've got given the hardware limitations and I guess physics involved limiting improvements. I still think the Manticore and Nox 700/900 would benefit from more accurate ID's, it's taken a step backwards from the Nox 800 which took a step backwards from the CTX 3030, at least in my soils so rather than getting worse with target identification I'd like newer models to improve.

This will be one of those topics to revisit in a few years and see the results. If the phone is nothing more than an output device like a dumb terminal to allow them to adjust settings and see Target ID's and the guts is in the coil like XP it's not a challenge. The audio could go direct from coil to output device (headphones or speaker) Programmers can set process priority on their application so the operating system makes it a higher priority process than other apps running at normal priority There is an awesome little bit of software for Windows that manages this as it detects processes using too much CPU lagging the system and lowers their CPU usage to keep the system responsive constantly adjusting priorities but in this case they'd want their Detecting App on say an Iphone or Android to have high priority so it doesn't lag. You can set processes to higher priority for ones you don't want to be throttled like a game for example giving it higher priority than the operating system normally would thereby improving its performance. You may find Process Lasso interesting, https://bitsum.com/ In their other software section is CPU Eater, a program that purposefully uses 100% of your CPU power like a very demanding app and then you switch on Process Lasso and see how it resolves it to make your system responsive and lag free. https://bitsum.com/other/#cpueater Either way, we will see with time, nobody is right or wrong yet, it's a wait and see what the smart people involved can do with it and I expect they'll be able to do something pretty good.

yea, I think the earlier models were not waterproof and later ones were, mine is and it's been in the water.

Yea, the Joey is a good coil, and waterproof too, shame they discontinued it.

It's funny you called the Sadie which you loved a Coiltek yet still won ?

I used Norski 2 part Marine Epoxy, it takes many hours to dry but worked a treat, I couldn't handle looking at white glue on a black coil it would drive me crazy so I mixed a few drops of water based black dye in with the glue, seeing the epoxy I used claims on the tub you can wet your finger after its started to set and move your finger around to shape and smooth it I figured water based dye wouldn't hurt it, and it didn't. Came out really good and has held up a year or so now with no signs of issues. They also sell colours you can add into the Norski epoxy to make it certain colours, I didn't need to waste my money on theirs when I only needed a small amount of black.

I believe and hope they're still working on the Impact Gold PI machine. Getting a bit far behind in the VLF's to really do much other than low end machines but that end of the market is becoming fierce with very good waterproof detectors, even switching multi frequency and basic SMF are becoming low end. One has to wonder if the massive investment First Texas would have to do to become competitive in today's VLF market it would even be worth them trying. It's a race to the bottom for pricing at the moment, not the ideal market for big spending to try catch up. All this was predicted years ago, if people like me can guess this would take place someone with much more knowledge and understanding should have been able to see this all happening. You can go back and read old posts about First Texas and see where I and others commented that the likes of Nokta would come out with cheaper and better machines and at some point Minelab would have to fight back causing a competitive market, now even Quest is coming into the picture. You can't sit on electronic product models for decades and think that won't encourage competition to come in to the market and take all your sales away. It's not too late for the Impact Gold, but if they hold off too much longer it might be.

Great to hear Jeff, the audio fix was a game changer for me, went from not liking the detector to now finding it quite good. Glad to see you found a nuggie too and happy your injury is at a point where you are out and about detecting again.

I don't know if it's the same with the Axiom as it is with the GPZ but having a Garrett Carrot in your pocket or anywhere really can make it run a bit unstable. Even though the Carrot it switched off it still causes the issue. It's the reason I upgraded (well downgraded it turns out) to the Minelab Pro-Find 35, I then wasn't happy with it and changed over to the XP Mi-4 pinpointer which also disengages the pinpointer coil This image below is Minelab's Pro-Find marketing for the feature. Just something to keep in mind if you're having EMI problems and can't work out why, it is another possible cause. It appears to really work, both the Minelab and XP are quite a bit better than the various other pinpointers I own without the feature.

I see that snow and I'm terribly jealous, I'd be skiing while the snow is there and detecting the rest of the year, problem solved!, never hurts to have more than one hobby ? I'd certainly be making the most of the seasons.

We have all been thinking of the Simplex with this new X-Terra Pro, but more importantly perhaps is what it's release will do to the other brands that had their top of the line machines lagging behind the Simplex, what about Garrett and their AT Pro/Gold/Max. What about First Texas and their lineup of Dinosaurs? This could be extremely damaging to them. Yes they will have their fans that say my "whatever detector" is so much better than an Xterra but how about the general shoppers. I personally would pick the Xterra over my T2, or my AT Gold. If they put 20kHz on the X-terra it would be fantastic though but I guess a lot of thought went into giving as much bang for the buck without damaging existing detector sales in their lineup too much.

Different generation Chuck, some people who aren't even interested in detecting would buy this thing if it was in a shop they shop at as a phone accessory. They'd think it's a neat idea, people that are not at all interested in metal detecting. It opens Quest up to a different market of people entirely. Maybe they just want to have the tech on hand for the day technology improves to make it even more viable, lock it all up with patents like Minelab would do.

I am incredibly jealous!

The Axiom is sitting there with nothing more than standard coils at the moment, where as the 6000 has a few after market options, that should soon change in the Axiom's favour. While I haven't used the Axiom I have the 6000 and find it a nice detector now they've sorted out a bulk of the problems with it and there is no doubt it has some heavy discounting on it at the moment. If buying one new I'd be ensuring it's a new build and not an older one that's been hanging around in the warehouse or on the dealers shelf, not only have the coils been improved on newer ones with their cracking plastic but they've also got the audio EMI problem resolved, and who knows what else in the background, such as the high failure rate of the stability of coils on earlier builds, no one knows if that's improved but it possibly has. At the moment I'm guessing most will reply to get a 6000, in 12 months time that could change if the aftermarket come through with some excellent Axiom coil choices.

Not even remotely, I don't want it to be my future but that doesn't mean it won't be ?

I think time will be the solution to this, phone hardware is improving in leaps and bounds, Bluetooth has had dramatic improvements in data transfer rates lately and the new Bluetooth quickly becoming standard, phones often have a limited life and people are upgrading often from broken screens, dropping them in the toilet :), the battery dying or just because they want the new fancy models. They could set the minimum requirements via the app to make sure it only runs on suitable hardware and advertise it as such. They could run the app with high priority set by the operating system to ensure the apps not lagging because of other apps on the device. Time will tell, technology is improving all the time, what may seem like a crazy idea now may become the norm in the future. Never say never, as it's quite possible this will be the future of detectors.

The X-Terra Pro supports the ML-85 headphones, not the ML-80's. This means its not aptX it's Bluetooth LE, the new Bluetooth the same as the Nox 900 and Manticore. It should in theory work with any Bluetooth LE headphones, just very few are on the market yet being new tech and so far I haven't heard of anyone getting their hands on another brand and trying it. If they will work on generic stuff headphones and especially ear buds will end up quite cheap for it.

Well, it's all about profit margins, I'm sure we all know the cost price to make a Simplex would be hardly any different to a Legend, and the Equinox 600 wouldn't cost much less to make for Minelab than a Manticore. They have plenty of room they can move on prices, Nokta has made Minelab worried, that's clear. XP kept the pricing high with the Deus 2, if they came in lower on that the Manticore would be much cheaper so to bring the prices down on the top machines Nokta really need to get to making one, they've been the ones driving down the prices, thanks Nokta, love your work ? I am thinking even before release Nokta may adjust their Simplex models pricing, they didn't expect the X-Terra to be coming out when they were doing these Simplex models. I wouldn't be surprised at all with a last minute price adjustment on them all as they now seem overpriced.

That's true, everyone knows it however there are times its not viable, for me at least. Be it hot rocks or trash that just chase you out of an area, you think it's easier to go look somewhere else. Many of the heavy trash areas are left unexplored or at the most quickly gone over. The only ones hit hard are where someone stumbled on good gold in them before the trash scared them away ? I walk into a heavy trash area, my detector goes crazy I back off and walk the other direction ? Someone that digs every bit of trash in a heavily junked area without even knowing it has gold is my super hero, I just could not do it. If they could ever achieve VLF like discrimination on a PI it would be a great thing and put a lot of gold into pockets that's been missed or ignored. With VLF's performance got pretty close to tapped out, so they focused on improving features, if the same is happening with PI's then discrimination is a feature that would be a very positive thing to implement and improve.