New Minelab Manticore

[vive equinox]

7 - 9 hours is ok for me I very rarely hunted so much in a row and it was in land

at the beach, it's the tide that makes us leave after 5 hours

it's more the charging time that can pose a problem which is longer than the tide

[Luis]

https://fb.watch/ftzRPxryy9/

[Chase Goldman]

11 hours ago, Shelton said:

 

I love Lawrie and most hard core detector engineers.  Typically these folks are an engineer's engineer as they are squeezing so much juice out of a fundamentally crude physical principle used to interrogate the physical properties of a metal target - magnetic induction.  Based on what these folks have been able to accomplish with so little to work with is almost miraculous. Yet most folks have little-to-no appreciation for what has been accompished and how much difficulty is involved with wringing a few more drops of capability out of these machines while essentially being on the flat top of the performance vs. cost/power/processing plateau.  Also love all the "I can't talk about that" statements.  I understand business sensitive information, having to keep the competive edge, and keeping the counterfeiters at bay, but being coy about whether or not ML is working on a pinpointer like it's some state secret is laugh out load funny.  All I have to say is ML's technology rep took a big hit with the the head-scratchingly underwhelming Pro Find 35 PP.  It would be nice to see them up their game in that area both in terms of tech, performance and features.  To answer Lawrie's "market research" question, the answer is yes, people DO want a capable, reliable discriminating pinpointer at least as far as ferrous vs. non-ferrous is concerned.  The more interesting question is whether people want something more sophisticated like a wired or even wireless X-Ray probe.  I suspect there is not a whole lot of interest there on ML's part based on the ultimate profit margin for that accessory, which seems to be the primary force driving ML these days as they have the market cornered while everyone else is still playing catchup.

I like what the interviewer did ask and Mark's answers when he could answer.  Liked the wireless coil discussion counterpoint with mosty fair criticisms of wireless topology (except you can debate that splitting up the power sources a la XP enables distributing that power-to-weight disadvantage).  And it was funny how Lawrie, not a marketeer, missed an opportunity to further subtly dis the competition (XP) when the interviewer had to tip in with the antenna wire claptrap disadvantage.  I would have had Lawrie delve more into whether the secret sauce of Multi-IQ/Multi-IQ+ lies primarily in how the waveform is transmitted or the power of the real-time signal processing algorithms rather than talking about "100 khz".  I would have asked the question differently, and would have tried to get Lawrie on record stating that the 40 khz single frequency setting does not represent or nor correlate to the upper end of the SMF spectrum of Multi-IQ+ (if true).  Great opportunity to put that wide misconception to rest.  Regarding upper frequencies, would like to get some confirmation on its small gold performance vs. Equinox.  But I think the ML marketeers would rather keep pressing the "more power is good" message rather than these other arcane details related to Multi-IQ+ and Manticore because it implies "more depth" and that seems to be the overriding performance feature that is, unfortunately, front and center to most detectorists.

Great video overall.

So Lawrie said something interesting at the 15:40 mark about the Beast M105 phones utilizing a different low latency wireless "technology" than the GPX 6000's M100 wireless phones.  I also noticed that ML is not utilizing the Bluetooth symbol on the Beast's screen (though they are still using the "+" symbol) like they did on the Equinox.  I suspect they are still utilizing APTX-LL or perhaps APTX Adaptive (!!) but it was an interesting statement and the subtle change on the Beast's screen graphics, point to ML perhaps activating a built-in proprietary Wi-Max radio (ML's proprietary low latency wireless system) down the road if APTX-LL becomes unobtanium.

          

             

  Manticore on Left and Equinox on Right, FWIW

Anyway, my takeaways so far on The Beast based on what we know or highly suspect:

It will undoubtedly be a worthy successor to and an evolutionary step up from Equinox (whether it is actually a better "value" at the chosen price point is debatable).

Pros:

• The Pros all generally appear to address the shortcomings with Equinox (and that's not to take away from how great the Nox was and is), including:
• Better Watertight Integrity
• Welcome User Interface Improvements (4-way navigation and shortcut keys)
• Like the unambiguous, site/objective-based mode/sub-mode designations
• Like the greater additional customized mode profile capability (implementation is still TBD, see below).
• More Visual ID Information with shapes/positions that give the user more visual target intel  with better TID Resolution 
• More sophisticated iron handling and discrimination is anticipated
• Better and more customizable Audio Options
• More Robust, Compact, and Lighter Stem and Shaft System
• Elliptical Small Coil Form Factor Option
• Fast Initialization (I think) and Noise Cancelling (I know).
• 1.5 ounces (46 grams) lighter than Equinox.  The CF shaft/stem advantage basically countering the increased battery weight.  

Cons (these are mostly minor):

• Pricing and Value (seems like a lot to pay vs. NOX for what you are getting, but not too much different than Deus 2 vs. Deus 1)
• While robust, that new coil/shaft mechanical design will make life difficult for third party shaft and coil suppliers.  That will likely translate into even fewer third party shaft/coil options than the few options Equinox had.
• Not so worried about the conservative battery session duration figures (9 hours is probably a minimum duration figure), but the fact that it takes 7 hours to recharge means that ML was unable (or unwilling) to utilize the USB-C power delivery standard capability to increase charging amps above 2.0A for the detector's battery charging system, perhaps due to the choice to go with their watertight magnetic charge cable connector interface.  Well, at least the M105 headphones have a USB-C connector...
• That round/oval handgrip, though slightly improved(?) still seems too big compared to what Nokta offers on the Legend.
• Wish it had a mineralization indicator.
• Offering the same subpar/overpriced ML waterproof headphones as Nox (fortunately there are some excellent compatible 3rd party waterproof headphones out there).

We'll See/TBD:

• What does the 50% more power statement really mean in terms of performance and capabilty/features.  Lawrie confirmed that a different, possibly expanded SMF spectrum is utilized with Multi-IQ+ vs. Multi-IQ on Nox/Vanquish>how does this practically translate into performance?
• How is transmit power handled/managed in hot soil/black sand conditions across ALL modes/sub-modes?  Automatically folded back like Nox in the beach modes only or is there a more sophisticated implementation and to what degree does the user have control?
• Iron Handling appears to be more sophisticated but to what degree?
• How does it handle highly mineralized ground?
• Confirmation that the modes/sub-modes utilized different Multi-IQ+ SMF spectra and signal processing or is it all just different signal processing implementations?  Frankly, as a practical matter no one should really care as long as it suitably performs but this always seems to be a big area of discussion as well as being grossly misunderstood) and appears to drive sales amongst the subset of prospective buyers who have the faulty "more is better" (fill in the blank: "more power", "more frequencies used", "more frequency range", "more channels") frame of reference because they really don't fundamentally understand the underlying tech or how it should be implemented.  
• How are the customized user profiles implemented and how easy is it to switch between them for the purpose of target interrogation?
• Confirmation of the wireless audio protocol(s) used.
• Is it as sensitive on tiny gold as Nox?
• EMI immunity should be better, but we'll see.
• Are the watertight and structural improvements going to make it a better submersible salt beach machine than Nox?
• More depth? (Frankly not all that important to me based on what/how I detect which is mostly about relics in a full range of mild to extremelyhot soil conditions)

Looking forward to learning about The Beast's TBD known unknowns (mentioned above) as well as the unknown unknowns as more is revealed in the weeks and months to come.

At the mentioned US Beast price point, this detector will eventually replace my Equinox unless it is revealed to have some egregious fatal flaw (close to zero chance of that).  But I won't stand in line for this one and will wait for the hype to die down, the first one or two online SW updates to be released and field tested, and release of the small elliptical form factor coil.  Then will likely buy a used unit from a dummy who is reselling it at a deep discount once they discovered that the Beast (like ALL detectors ) is not Harry Potter's Magic Detecting Wand.   I predict Equinox itself (not Deus 2 or even Legend) will be the greatest drag on Manticore sales, so we'll see if Manticore used prices have the staying power of (pre-Manticore) Equinox used prices even in the early going.

In the mean time...D2 will be my weapon of choice for relic/park/beach detecting, backed up by Equinox 10x5 or Legend and my GPX 4.8K (or Axiom) when a PI is needed to get the job done.

Cheers,

Chase

[CPT_GhostLight]

5 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

So Lawrie said something interesting at the 15:40 mark about the Beast M105 phones utilizing a different low latency wireless "technology" than the GPX 6000's M100 wireless phones.  I also noticed that ML is not utilizing the Bluetooth symbol on the Beast's screen (though they are still using the "+" symbol) like they did on the Equinox.  I suspect they are still utilizing APTX-LL or perhaps APTX Adaptive (!!) but it was an interesting statement and the subtle change on the Beast's screen graphics, point to ML perhaps activating a built-in proprietary Wi-Max radio (ML's proprietary low latency wireless system) down the road if APTX-LL becomes unobtanium.

Excellent write up, Chase! I saw in an early video by Addicted to Bleeps that he asked Lawrie if the Manticore was still Bluetooth and he answered, no it has a faster proprietary wireless system. Perhaps the new WiFi + symbol eludes to a built-in WM08 module or something similar?

Also, I don't see this as an Equinox replacement, but a higher end model of their Multi-IQ line. That way ML will have a lower end, midline, and high-end model SMF, ala Vanquish, Equinox, and Manticore.

 

[GB_Amateur]

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I love Lawrie and most hard core detector engineers.

Says another engineer. 

I'm not one, although I've done some of their tasks, and I also have great respect for most (but not all) of the ones I've worked with.  It's refreshing to hear directly from an engineer as opposed to through a filter, from a salesman/marketeer.  (Misspelling intended.  )  I suspect the "we can't talk about that" is drummed into every Minelab employee's head so no criticism of Mark for saying it, too.  Bottom line for me is it just seems like we're getting straight answers.  For example, he has never said anything close to 50% more depth.  But he's multiple times said 50% more power to the coil.  I'm sure he knows that to be a fact.  If people are so ignorant as to translate that to 50% more depth then it's their problem.  I'm so sick of "dumbing down" I could scream.  Stop catering to the lazy s___s who are proud to have gone through school not learning anything.  ("Tell us how you really feel, Chuck.")

In the first video that Shelton linked (German guy interviewing Lawrie), I didn't see much that hadn't been said already, but it's a nice concise review and with good audio.  Detectival videos are dribbling in.  I hope those (or at least some) will show live digs as opposed to repeating all the features, screenshots of settings menus, etc.  We'll see....

4 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Pros:

• More Visual ID Information with shapes/positions that give the user more visual target intel  with better TID Resolution

Personally this is what has me excited.  Maybe I'll be disappointed, but I've noticed over many years putting up plots that many people just glaze over rather than try and figure out what they are saying.  If "a picture's worth a thousand words", isn't a plot worth a lot more than just a couple numbers?  I missed out on the FBS(2) and V3i graphics.  I don't think I'm going to miss out on this one, but I also am going to sit tight while giving the objective early adopters a chance to wow(?) us with their reviews.  Hopefully by early spring (March) I'll have enough intel to make a decision and the supply channels will have time to loosen up as well.  🤞

[Luis]

another video

[Chase Goldman]

2 hours ago, CPT_GhostLight said:

I saw in an early video by Addicted to Bleeps that he asked Lawrie if the Manticore was still Bluetooth and he answered, no it has a faster proprietary wireless system. Perhaps the new WiFi + symbol eludes to a built-in WM08 module or something similar?

Pretty much looks that way.  Good for future proofing Manticore, bad for obtaining 3rd party wireless headphones.  It would be great if the WM08 module were compatible with Manticore or if the M105's were backward compatible with Equinox, but that's unlikely given ML's track record for making Wi-Max accessories (e.g., M08, M10, M12) incompatible across detector platforms.

[phrunt]

atpX LL is extinct, Adaptive and HD are too slow, they had no choice really to go a wifi solution using 2.4GHz.  What sucks is they never make them backwards compatible though, I wish I could use my WM12 from the GPZ with my CTX as I didn't get the package with a WM10 and I can't justify the cost of a WM10, I don't like the WM08 as it has no speaker so I'd use my WM12 on the Nox too if I could.  So yea, I'm sure the Maurederable is going to be a WM14 style wireless technology likely with no changes other than compatibility that is incompatible with all previous versions but instead of a little wireless gadget it will have just headphones.  That too sucks as there should have been WM08, WM10 and WM12 headphones so you didn't need to use the little black box if you wanted to go direct to headphones using that tech instead of Bluetooth.

[CoinShooter1]

1 hour ago, Luis said:

another video

STOP IT!

The more I see, the more Im wanting one....RIGHT NOW! 

[Viktor]

Hello everyone, I'm from Russia, I've been using Minelab for 11 years. Will Russian be available in Manticore ?