New Minelab Manticore

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, steveg said:

...all that target trace is, is a visual plot of what your ears are hearing (again, this is assuming that the M-Core target trace is very similar to the CTX target trace, and I feel reasonably confident that it is).

Suppose you have a target that is giving multiple dTID's, but there is a clustering around a particular (conductive) value.  E.g. 22,25,26,29,26,25,25,24.  That may be difficult for the human brain to decipher, but a plot (even one dimensional) should indicate there is a peak at 25-26 in this example, and especially if more datapoints are integrated in the X-Y plot.

I appreciate your explanations, being one (of many) who has never used an FBS detector.  But "a picture is worth a thousand words" and "a plot is worth a thousand numbers".  OTOH, I think (and there was at least one example in the ML European Tour videos) that ground conditions, target depth, and/or multiple targets (at different depths) don't give the ideal view that some cherry-picked ideal arrangement of one or two targets on top of the ground will show.  Inevitably we are going to hear griping that the sizzle was better than the steak.  But if we only get chopped sirloin to replace stew beef, I'll be happy.

There is the hope that improvements since the Equinox (and since FBS) in signal processing will show improved ID'ing of iron trash, such as with some nails (as you mention).  Note I say 'hope' because up to now I haven't seen reliable, clear evidence that such is the case.  That hopefully (there's that word again ) will become apparent when I and others get their hands on one.

[rled2005]

1 hour ago, Troy E said:

Right now if I was going to spend that money I think I’d get a Tarsacci.  MDT 8000.

Not saying the manticore won’t be a excellent detector, I’d like to see some of them out in the field, live digs and such first.

I think I'll be aiming more towards the Garrett Axiom!

[steveg]

3 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Suppose you have a target that is giving multiple dTID's, but there is a clustering around a particular (conductive) value.  E.g. 22,25,26,29,26,25,25,24.  That may be difficult for the human brain to decipher, but a plot (even one dimensional) should indicate there is a peak at 25-26 in this example, and especially if more datapoints are integrated in the X-Y plot.

I appreciate your explanations, being one (of many) who has never used an FBS detector.  But "a picture is worth a thousand words" and "a plot is worth a thousand numbers". 

GB_Amateur --

ABSOLUTELY.  I agree with you.  I was NOT saying, by any stretch, that target trace isn't in any way helpful.  ABSOLUTELY what you said is true -- all those IDs, plotted in a visual format, clustered around an "average" value, certainly does offer help for dig/no-dig decisions.

Recall, all of that extremely long and involved explanation that I "vomited" onto the thread, was typed SPECIFICALLY in response to this statement...

"Well for one thing if the 2-d screen works as advertised falsing iron targets should become obvious without circling targets. "

And so, I was simply trying to explain why having a 2-D screen IN AND OF ITSELF won't "make iron targets obvious without circling," if the nail is at all "falsy"...

Steve

[strick]

Nails so many different types....For the discussion the only nails that I have ever had a problem with when using the CTX have been galvanized roofing nails and you can learn what they sound like easily after a while.....most older decomposed iron nails will give the grunt and you will see the I’d down in the ferrous zone. If the have a big head they may false a little...Square nails lol  I’ve dug way more large square nails with my Nox then with the CTX....and rarely ever if any with the Deus...target trace is a great tool.. for instance in park hunting can slaw (bigger pieces) will give a high tone but you will see a splattering of fireworks on the screen and can then pass...I am very interested to see how the new screen differs on the Manticore...it seems to look like some type of a bar chart/histogram type of deal the way the targets get spread out? 

Strick

[steveg]

strick --

Don't think it is a bar chart or histogram.  I believe it to be an x,y coordinate system, very similar to the CTX 2-D smart screen, but we shall see.

Steve

[GB_Amateur]

9 hours ago, steveg said:

I was NOT saying, by any stretch, that target trace isn't in any way helpful.  ABSOLUTELY what you said is true -- all those IDs, plotted in a visual format, clustered around an "average" value, certainly does offer help for dig/no-dig decisions.

Recall, all of that extremely long and involved explanation that I "vomited" onto the thread, was typed SPECIFICALLY in response to this statement...

Yep, all good, Steve.  I didn't mean to counter what you said but rather enhance it.  And since I've never used an FBS detector I was hoping to get a confirmation, which you gave (thank you for that).  Possibly I should have been more careful/explicit in my post -- next time....

4 hours ago, strick said:

.I am very interested to see how the new screen differs on the Manticore...it seems to look like some type of a bar chart/histogram type of deal the way the targets get spread out?

That was my first impression when seeing the still shots of the screen.  But watching (a lot of) videos with engineer Mark Lawrie's explanations, I decided what looked like a histogram was actually some kind of iron discrimination pattern -- I think he said that in at least one video.  Since I don't use any silencing discrimination except for single pitch mode detectors (in my case the Tesoro Vaquero), I eventually just ignored those bars on the lower part of the X-Y screen.  Personally I'd much rather have that replaced with a histogram, but don't anticipate that happening on this (Manticore) detector as it's in the very late pre-release stages.

[phrunt]

All this stuff depends on your style of detecting, some people won't benefit at all from the target trace, some just like to dig as they don't want the risk of missing good stuff and they're always going to be the people that find the most.  Where I see it beneficial is for areas where you want to keep digging to a minimum, and this is often where I hunt, not because I have to, I just prefer to dig less as I want to keep my detecting footprint to a minimum, I don't want to lose the ability to do it by people getting upset by someone digging up the area so the CTX has been beneficial there with it's target trace version.

Gold prospectors are highly unlikely to benefit from it at all.  I'll still be looking at it all the time though, just to gather up information about what's going on, I love Target trace on the CTX, it works brilliantly for me in my soils and conditions and I do dig far less with the CTX than with the Nox, but my good target ratio is still higher with the CTX, I find more silvers in a day than I was with my Nox even though my areas are starting to run low on silvers so I will have to consider traveling further than 20 minutes from home in the future to try some new ground 🙂 

The ultimate test for me is taking the Mandible to these areas I've been hammering with the Nox and CTX and seeing if it finds me much I've missed.  I'm sure it will but it is if the finds are significantly higher than I am expecting I will be happy, I seem to be good at missing stuff, I for fun occasionally take my Garrett Ace 300I with Nel Torando coil out for a spin, I just enjoy using it and it still finds the odd silver in these areas I've missed.  It's a really deep machine though in my conditions, could be it's frequency I guess and that big 13x12" coil.

So don't expect me to return feedback on my Mandible saying it found silvers in flogged ground like I'm sure we are about to be blasted with by many people especially on Youtube, as I know it will... my hammer must be faulty as my hammered ground is never really done for gold nuggets or coins.  Different day, different soil moisture, different angle of approach, coil closer to the ground, grass cut lower, in the right frame of mind, or just a spot of ground I've missed, I never believe anyone that says they can absolutely cover every single bit of ground at an area with their tiny little coil and get the center of the coil over the entire bit of ground to get the deepest results.  Any one of these things or more can help me find good targets I've missed previously, it's not always about the detector.

[phrunt]

I don't know if this video has been posted or not, I've not watched any videos since right at the start of the flood of marketing, however I found this video informative and I've had a boring day at home resting as I've been skiing straight for over a week, and back at it tomorrow so I figured I'd watch a video or two to keep the excitement of my new toy up.

They always avoid saying if the headphones are WiStream and just say low latency, bit puzzled by that. 

It is also a shame 4kHz single frequency isn't included, I liked that for silvers, 5kHz always has too much EMI around here, I'm hoping that multi+ will be better with EMI like they're indicating as some locations multi-IQ is just too EMI affected so I use 4kHz

I like how you can hold down the noise cancel button to let it try harder to find a clean channel when the quick press method isn't working to your satisfaction, I wish the GPX 6000 had that, I find myself pressing the damn thing 5 times sometimes to get it right, I'd rather just hold it in a bit longer and do it once.

It's annoying seeing a much cheaper detector having the better features than the much more expensive 6000, even the shaft is a whole lot better than the 6000. 

He did say they're aiming for a November release, I truly hope so, I'd like it before Christmas so I can take it away with me wherever I end up going.

[Cal_Cobra]

7 hours ago, UtahRich said:

To make things more interesting is the new polyphonic audio.  Separate audio scales for the X and Y axis. So now i will have the audio and visual X-Y axis indicators to sort out multiple targets. 

 

That's interesting, I think there are very few machines that offer similar mixed audio, but to have mixed mode audio along with the target trace graph that could get interesting.   I think I'll make a user profile setup like I have my EQX800 to get my feet wet, and then another profile with polyphonic audio so I could switch back and forth to understand the differences. 

I wonder if in a sea of nails how that 2D graph will work out, graph all the nails and if a coin or button's hiding in the mix?

[steveg]

I am wondering if the mixed audio will be like running both "conductive tones" and "ferrous tones," as you could on the Explorers and E-Trac, but AT THE SAME TIME (one in either ear).  Now THAT could be interesting...

Steve