Manticore Center Line Question...

[steveg]

17 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

From what I remember from the Equinox, that iron audio is not just iron targets but ground noise as well. I kind of wished they didn't combine iron targets and ground noise together on the Manticore as well. It clutters up the audio a lot. I hope I'm remembering that correctly?

You ARE remembering correctly, BUT, I'm not sure there is a way to "un-combine" the location that iron targets report, and the location that most ground noise tends to report.  Reason being, at least in my mind, is that since the source of the "ground noise" often IS the background irony composition of many types of soil, the ground IS essentially an "iron target," and thus why it tends to "ID" as "iron."

Steve

[basstrackerman]

Good information guys.   

[abenson]

2 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

From what I remember from the Equinox, that iron audio is not just iron targets but ground noise as well. I kind of wished they didn't combine iron targets and ground noise together on the Manticore as well. It clutters up the audio a lot. I hope I'm remembering that correctly?

So that's the other thing I have been noticing on deep targets running iron audio off. That ground noise gets cleaned up in my soil and the target is a lot cleaner sounding. But here again if I turned the iron audio down, the difference might not be that defined.

[abenson]

7 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Is this in any way parallel to what the Deus 2 does, setting a discrimination level independent(?) of notching?  (I may be way off base with this, never having had an XP detector and thus not understanding its language...).

I also wonder about analog vs. digital processing.  With a Tesoro (maybe not all of them...) the discrimination completely silences a target whose overall 'conductivity' is well below the discriminator threshold.  You never know its there.  With the Equinox, with notching (for example silencing the negative VDI's) if you get a mixed non-ferrous/ferrous signal it makes choppy/herky-jerky non-ferrous tone(s) as you swing over the target(s) -- and it's especially noticeable if you set an audible background volume threshold tone.

I'm probably oversimplifying or even just mis-representing what is really going on....

Yea I think it is working kind of like that. With the Deus 2 I had been running a combination of notch, silencer and bottle cap reject in ghost towns. It literally has been silencing most of the nails, bottle caps and flat tin. One target in particular that turned out to be a Barber quarter was in a mess of nails and flat tin. I got a 94-97 TID and clean audio, started going through the soft dirt left by bottle diggers it was in and pulled out a piece of flat tin thinking that was the target. But when I waved it over the coil no sound. Went back over the area and still get a 94-97 and clean audio, dig with my fingers again and out pops a Barber quarter, surprised the heck out of me. And yes that one is on video. So one thing that I think is better on the Deus 2 in regards to using notch, is the audio is not as clipped when using PWM, a more rounded audio and much more descriptive. Where as the Manticore/Equinox sounds clipped or choppy.

So one other thing I will bring up. Running this disc program on the Manticore in parks with basically everything except IHP and above and nickels open. When you pass over some closely spaced targets such as a coin (accepted) and pull tab (rejected). You will see the pull tab on the trace but won't hear it and the pull tab will have it's own separate trace from the coin. But the audio will be clipped. When I have opened up the screen on some of these the trace now looks like a long smear from where the pull tab starts and the coin ends. Also the VDI becomes more jumpy and audio funky (if running prospecting audio you don't notice the audio being funky) Doesn't happen every time but has happened more than once. 

[abenson]

2 hours ago, steveg said:

And finally, I hope none of this comes across in any way "offensive" or as though I am "challenging" you.  I really am just trying to understand in a very detailed way, AND I am an "external" processor, so I figure things out using words, LOL!  And so, when my words come out, it's all out there...everything my brain is thinking, ends up "spoken" (or, on the page, in this case)!  So, my point is that this is truly me just trying to wrap my brain around this machine, and trying to test --  against my current understanding -- all of the things that folks I trust are witnessing/experiencing as we all learn this machine together..

No not at all. Good discussions and learning. I'm probably not that good at relaying what I'm seeing. Not saying it's magic or anything, but I have seen similar things happen even on the old Whites 6DB I owned back in the 80"s. You could literally disc out a pipe and find silver/copper coins right next to or on top of them in the ground. Had to use the same X system to pinpoint the location.

[strick]

13 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

From what I remember from the Equinox, that iron audio is not just iron targets but ground noise as well. I kind of wished they didn't combine iron targets and ground noise together on the Manticore as well. It clutters up the audio a lot. I hope I'm remembering that correctly?

Yes I think this is right...I've been running my threshold as I would if I were nugget hunting with barely audible...the ground noise is easily differentiated from an iron target as it breaks through the threshold. I believe the threshold is set to zero and you have to engage it in all the programs except the gold modes...they call it  "referenced threshold" I tend to run my detectors   in all metal most of the time except when relic hunting in nail beds where it can get monotonous very quickly.. I don't know if you guys are running with the threshold on or off...good discussion 

strick 

[midalake]

24 minutes ago, strick said:

I don't know if you guys are running with the threshold on or off...good discussion

On the Equinox I run a threshold of 2. You cannot hear it, but it enhances deep targets. We are going to experiment with the manticore today. 

[schoolofhardNox]

18 hours ago, steveg said:

You ARE remembering correctly, BUT, I'm not sure there is a way to "un-combine" the location that iron targets report, and the location that most ground noise tends to report.  Reason being, at least in my mind, is that since the source of the "ground noise" often IS the background irony composition of many types of soil, the ground IS essentially an "iron target," and thus why it tends to "ID" as "iron."

Steve

Yep. At first I liked the reporting of it together but now I want to just hear the iron so that I can get a good understanding of how many nails are there. Sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going wild but when you pinpoint there are only a few nails present. I guess I'll just lower, or get rid of the iron volume in certain situations. When looking for small gold I may change the pitch of the low numbers (in 5 tones) to a higher setting, so the low numbers don't get confused with the pitch of the iron targets. Not a big deal.

[steveg]

4 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Yep. At first I liked the reporting of it together but now I want to just hear the iron so that I can get a good understanding of how many nails are there. Sometimes it sounds like a machine gun going wild but when you pinpoint there are only a few nails present. I guess I'll just lower, or get rid of the iron volume in certain situations. When looking for small gold I may change the pitch of the low numbers (in 5 tones) to a higher setting, so the low numbers don't get confused with the pitch of the iron targets. Not a big deal.

Sometimes that "machine-gunning" is your clue that your ground balance is slightly off...

Steve

[Chase Goldman]

9 minutes ago, steveg said:

Sometimes that "machine-gunning" is your clue that your ground balance is slightly off...

Steve

Exactly.  That’s why I use pinpoint in that situation to find a spot to ground grab rather than getting fooled into thinking I’m completely surrounded by ferrous and can’t.