Minelab Vanquish Successor Predictions

[phrunt]

I think soil conditions and needing a ground balance on a multi-IQ unit are so limited in the number of people it matters for that they just consider it a non-issue for an entry level type machine.  To those detector users in those conditions they need a different detector and the local dealers would tell them that, just like the people on the North Island of NZ with the black sand beaches, they are aware they're in difficult ground and if not the shops they're buying from instruct them so, they are told they need to spent the big bucks to handle their conditions and nothing less than a GPX 5000 or Tarsacci (which hasn't worked out well for anyone that I've seen) will work so because of their tough conditions they just have to buy something higher priced to handle it.  

The Ace series are likely one of the most sold detectors on the planet, they can't ground balance and wouldn't work well in these tough conditions either but it didn't stop them selling like crazy and doing very well for people around the world.  The right price, the right marketing and for most people the right performance for the price to make them a good choice.  The Vanquish jumped onboard with this providing a multi-IQ machine much like the Ace but with better performance at the beach and better Target ID's.

To someone that owns an Ace 400 buying the Vanquish would be a great stop upwards to something better in the same places they've been hunting and they could expand their hunting to wet sand at the beach and get great performance too.

 

[Jeff McClendon]

56 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I think soil conditions and needing a ground balance on a multi-IQ unit are so limited in the number of people it matters for that they just consider it a non-issue for an entry level type machine.  To those detector users in those conditions they need a different detector and the local dealers would tell them that, just like the people on the North Island of NZ with the black sand beaches, they are aware they're in difficult ground and if not the shops they're buying from instruct them so, they are told they need to spent the big bucks to handle their conditions and nothing less than a GPX 5000 or Tarsacci (which hasn't worked out well for anyone that I've seen) will work so because of their tough conditions they just have to buy something higher priced to handle it.  

The Ace series are likely one of the most sold detectors on the planet, they can't ground balance and wouldn't work well in these tough conditions either but it didn't stop them selling like crazy and doing very well for people around the world.  The right price, the right marketing and for most people the right performance for the price to make them a good choice.  The Vanquish jumped onboard with this providing a multi-IQ machine much like the Ace but with better performance at the beach and better Target ID's.

To someone that owns an Ace 400 buying the Vanquish would be a great stop upwards to something better in the same places they've been hunting and they could expand their hunting to wet sand at the beach and get great performance too.

 

Here in the USA, a lot of Vanquish, X-Terra Pro and Garrett Ace entry level VLF detector sales are made online via Amazon and EBay and through “big box” department store and sporting good store in person sales. People buying that way do not have a shop owner telling them which detector will or will not work in their detecting area. Only forums like this one give real world information like that to prospective buyers. So NO, most USA buyers will have to depend on the manufacturers marketing hype and will have no clue!

[phrunt]

9 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Here in the USA, a lot of Vanquish, X-Terra Pro and Garrett Ace entry level VLF detector sales are made online via Amazon and EBay and through “big box” department stores and sporting goods in person stores. People buying that way do not have a shop owner telling them which detector will or will not work in their detecting area. Only forums like this one give real world information like that to prospective buyers. So NO, most USA buyers will have to depend on the manufacturers marketing hype and will have no clue!

How much of the USA has difficult soil that these Ace type users are going to encounter with the type of detecting they would be doing?  I see the world differently as I don't need ground balance anywhere here 🙂

I don't know how it works there but if someone was to buy a Vanquish for example here, and take it out to the beach and it didn't work properly they could just take it back and get a refund within the first week saying it's not suitable for their needs so if they were getting a big influx of returned detectors that might force their hand to add ground balance, I'm sure they can add it to the Vanquish with a firmware update and repurposing an existing button by holding it down rather than a short press.

[Chase Goldman]

 

58 minutes ago, phrunt said:

How much of the USA has difficult soil that these Ace type users are going to encounter with the type of detecting they would be doing?  I see the world differently as I don't need ground balance anywhere here 🙂

I don't know how it works there but if someone was to buy a Vanquish for example here, and take it out to the beach and it didn't work properly they could just take it back and get a refund within the first week saying it's not suitable for their needs so if they were getting a big influx of returned detectors that might force their hand to add ground balance, I'm sure they can add it to the Vanquish with a firmware update and repurposing an existing button by holding it down rather than a short press.

Yes the Ace detectors are popular and yes severely mineralized ground does not dominate the landscape, but that's beside the point.  The point is that there is simply is no need to compromise a design by omitting such a basic feature.  With modern processors, GB can be done automatically without added cost or impacting operational complexity.   ML proved this with the XT Pro which should have been the design basis for the Vanquish instead of ML's misguided attempt to lure prospective Garrett customers with a retro-Ace lookalike and unnecessarily handicapped features.  The one thing I do like about the Vanquish was it's lightweight collapsible S-Shaft design, but now that they have vastly improved on the original Nox straight shaft, and have basically dead-ended the Vanquish line as far as successors are concerned, and with the XT Pro addressing all the other Vanquish shortcomings, though omitting Multi-IQ, there really is no point continuing on with the V.  But based on your thorough analysis of the 2023 Codan annual report, it really is all moot as it seems that ML has no plans for hobby treasure detector development for the near future.  So Vanquish is likely not going anywhere for the foreseeable future nor will there be any successor designs.

[phrunt]

I understand your point, I just see their point of trying to keep it as close to entry level as possible so people don't say well, I don't need waterproof I'll just buy a Vanquish not an Equinox.  The more expensive the detector we buy the more money they make as manufacturing costs of a lower priced unit don't vary all that much from the highest priced units.

So few people venture outside of default settings and only use sensitivity control so a ground balancing Vanquish would be suitable for many people over the need for an Equinox, I can happily use mine and often do and never feel like I'm missing much not using my Nox, in fact in some places I find it beneficial over the Nox with its Elliptical coils.  Maybe they've just tried to get too many models so flood the market and hinder the competition that they're having trouble finding ways to release new models without them overlapping other models too much and that's why 2024 is the year of trying to sell existing gear with no new releases.

I think they've taken it too far already with models, and now they're in a position where releasing future models is going to enter paint job territory by the looks of it like happened to First Texas when their engineering talent appeared to reach the peak of their ability.  In Minelab's case it may not be their engineering talent but physics limitations that end their run of new detectors but it has to come to an end at some point and then what? That only leaves paint jobs and new designs of shafts and control pods to make them look different when under the hood they're all pretty similar.

The days of getting excited about new model detectors are over for me it seems.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I understand your point, I just see their point of trying to keep it as close to entry level as possible so people don't say well, I don't need waterproof I'll just buy a Vanquish not an Equinox.  The more expensive the detector we buy the more money they make as manufacturing costs of a lower priced unit don't vary all that much from the highest priced units.

So few people venture outside of default settings and only use sensitivity control so a ground balancing Vanquish would be suitable for many people over the need for an Equinox, I can happily use mine and often do and never feel like I'm missing much not using my Nox, in fact in some places I find it beneficial over the Nox with its Elliptical coils.  Maybe they've just tried to get too many models so flood the market and hinder the competition that they're having trouble finding ways to release new models without them overlapping other models too much and that's why 2024 is the year of trying to sell existing gear with no new releases.

I think they've taken it too far already with models, and now they're in a position where releasing future models is going to enter paint job territory by the looks of it like happened to First Texas when their engineering talent appeared to reach the peak of their ability.  In Minelab's case it may not be their engineering talent but physics limitations that end their run of new detectors but it has to come to an end at some point and then what? That only leaves paint jobs and new designs of shafts and control pods to make them look different when under the hood they're all pretty similar.

The days of getting excited about new model detectors are over for me it seems.

Before XT Pro, I would agree with what you are saying on your lead paragraph, Simon.  But ML themselves changed the equation by introducing the XT Pro - a great, versatile entry level detector that eclipses Vanquish in versatility and utility and is on approximately equal footing in capability (the Vanquish Multi-IQ advantage at least on a salt beach appears to be minimal) and all at a lower price point.  The only glitch appears to be lack of affordable compatible wireless phones, though that can be readily remedied with some inexpensive Aptx-LL hardware.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

The days of getting excited about new model detectors are over for me it seems.

I think it's time to get excited about the Xtreme Hunter.  

[phrunt]

9 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Before XT Pro, I would agree with what you are saying on your lead paragraph, Simon.  But ML themselves changed the equation by introducing the XT Pro.

Well, I sort of agree except as a beginner accurate Target ID's are a great asset and help keep you interested and the Xterra appears to lack them much like all the new release Minelab VLF's, whereas the Vanquish at least for me is rock solid, as I've demonstrated before on videos it's more stable than the Equinox 800 even on quite deep coins.

I guess my views are of someone in mild soils, and Chase and Jeff both being in hotter soils opinions will always be different.

[George1971]

I can't understand why some people compare single-frequency detectors with simultaneous multi-frequency detectors since the single-frequency detectors are obsolete, as Minelab said. After all, this was clearly seen in the test done by a guy in YouTube named Treasure Outdoors and with the title Xterra Pro vs Vanquish 540 vs legend gold experiment. The superiority of simultaneous multi-frequency metal detectors is clearly seen.

I say again that if they make the Vanquish waterproof and with ground balance, even the sales of more expensive models with more features will drop a lot. Maybe that's why they don't change it.

The Xterra Pro is a metal detector which created to hit Simplex, Ace series and nothing more.

[StarVatrex]

3 hours ago, George1971 said:

I can't understand why some people compare single-frequency detectors with simultaneous multi-frequency detectors since the single-frequency detectors are obsolete, as Minelab said. After all, this was clearly seen in the test done by a guy in YouTube named Treasure Outdoors and with the title Xterra Pro vs Vanquish 540 vs legend gold experiment. The superiority of simultaneous multi-frequency metal detectors is clearly seen.

 

I say again that if they make the Vanquish waterproof and with ground balance, even the sales of more expensive models with more features will drop a lot. Maybe that's why they don't change it.

 

The Xterra Pro is a metal detector which created to hit Simplex, Ace series and nothing more.

 

Ummmhhh forums, always the same story. Comment without knowing the product.

That has come out this month of August with the X Terra Pro.

Yes it's SF, but obsolete?...