Chase Goldman

It's called demand. Just not enough of a potential sales base to support the investment. It is really a niche of niche - Only a small subset of hobbiest detectorists enter the water, only a subset of those dive. And fewer still make a living of it like you do.

Are you referring to the gold mode VCO audio otherwise not sure what you mean by this.

Totally agree with this. The 12x15" is really built for coverage, not much additional depth over the 11" and if you are concerned about junk target density, Chuck, having more targets under the coil because of the greater coil span, it might be counterproductive.

I have never relied on Equinox iron bias for crown caps. In my experience dealing with crown caps at the beach with the Nox, crown caps do give primarily high tones, so those less adept at picking up the telltale clues are often fooled. Specifically, they give notoriously unstable target ID readings and marked iron grunts off the coil edge when in AM. They are pretty easy to ID in that manner and I will usually move on without bothering to even scoop them to be certain. I have no reason to believe that the Vanquish would not behave similarly.

Steve - No worries. Ain't no way I am getting out for awhile anyway. Busy with stir crazy kids and work. Did get out a couple weeks back in 95F heat, found some keepers, but also started seeing stars too. Drank 10 bottles of water to keep hydrated. Luckily, the permethrin I sprayed on my trousers and socks worked as I did not bring any 8 legged hitch-hikers home. There is a reason I hunt the fields mostly in spring and fall and the beaches in summer. Fall sounds a lot better for a meet up if we can swing it. Safe travels back to OK.

Nice keepers, Steve. Sorry I missed out on your latest trip back east.

Steve - thanks for the report and pic. I take it you were running at 18 khz?

Makes sense, the swimmers itch larvae can't swim so they need something like that to stir them up and then allow them to attach onto people.

Check out the end of this thread...

Actually what you are likely experiencing is called "Swimmer's Itch" caused by cercaria (flat worm larva). The rash is similar but results from a completely different mechanism than chiggers. Chiggers don't actually bite but inject an enzyme into the skin to liquify it and then feed on that and the result are the telltale pinprick type red bump rashes. Flat worm larva detach from snail hosts in 60F degree or higher temp water and them burrow into the skin of their hosts. They cause irritation similar looking to chigger "bites" but die soon after doing this are relatively harmless because they are not a vector for disease. Chiggers do not live in the water but they do like to live in waterside plant life. You can read more about swimmer's itch and how it is different than chigger "bites" here. The other possibility is that you are picking up chiggers as you walk through plants that line the shore of whatever body of water you are working. Everyone enjoy your lunch now...

You won't get these answers until after final release for public sales and unbiased testers and not Garrett youtube stars can get their hands on the machine and report on it with true machine to machine comparisons. I plan to do that myself once I can get my hands on one. The machine, unlike Deus/Orx and Nox has only one, non-adjustable recovery speed. I suspect it will be faster than the AT series but by how much, who knows at this point. Probably faster than your ET but not quite as fast as your Vanquish (which in turn cannot be run as fast as either the 600 or 800 at their fastest settings). A narrower coil can't really disguise slow recovery speed. I think they were just going for a lighter coil that can cover a lot of ground. The depth performance loss vs. a wider coil is perhaps an inch or so at most because of the total area covered by the coil with its elongated length to width ratio vs. most ellipticals. The good news is that there will likely be a lot more Garrett and 3rd party coils available for Apex than for Nox or Vanquish. Except for the Eurasian "hacked" coils, what you are seeing is likely all the coils that will be offered for those two Multi IQ machines. I am hoping ML comes out with a Multi IQ machine that has the speed of the Equinox but the sophisticated target ID and discrimination patterns available in the FBS2 machines (eTrac and CTX). Cheers

Wow, you are buying a red detector with a 1/8' socket, something you said you would never do and as demonstrated the ID numbers are the same as Equinox. I think you are slipping Nuke, I thought you had greater resistance than that.

Hey GB you're not supposed to laugh at that, I was being semi serious - but I don't blame you based on ML's track record. What was it that the Wayne's World guys used to say..."Yeah, that will happen...when monkeys fly out of my [bleep]" I guess I can dream that ML is actually listening.

Perhaps ML is compiling our wish lists for Equinox (switchable pitch (vco)/tone ID audio, mixed mode, true threshold, and target ID normalization options) for the Multi IQ version of the CTX.

Who are you directing the question at? Recognize, that user "Hello" tacked on a recent question to a very old thread started in February 2018. So the original topic and issue is moot at this point even though the thread has been resurrected. Hello does not have his detector in hand yet.

It is really more complicated than that with Deus. Deus can run raw or normalized (selectable) for the LF and x35 coils. Normalized target IDs are normalized to 18 khz equivalents regardless of frequency which on the X35 coils are nominally 4, 8, 12, 18 and 25 khz (there is allowance for frequency shifting around those nominal frequencies on the X35). The HF coils when used with Deus are raw only and normalization is not an option. And regarding the ORX, all Target IDs are normalized to 18 khz regardless of coil and selected operational frequencies. This is another subtle advantage of the ORX as it spreads the high conductive numbers out better when the HF coils are used with the ORX. However, there is no option to run raw, un-normalized target IDs on ORX. If running raw, the answer varies with frequency but the tables below are consistent with my experience for the raw (un-normalized) target IDs and Deus running non-hf coils. If the normalized IDs would be equivalent to 18 khz. Above 18 khz everything around 30 and above gets severely shifted up and compressed into the high end of the scale. A complete, crushed aluminum can will read like a quarter or half-dollar.

I don't have a Gold Racer, but that chart makes no sense for typical aluminum targets (pull tabs, can slaw). It makes sense for everything else and makes sense if you are talking full size aluminum cans. I have run the Deus at 58 khz small aluminum sounds pretty much like small gold although there is a nuanced hollowness to the tone. Pretty subtle though and not something you can really notice unless you are swinging over an aluminum and gold target that are adjacent to one another. And GB's point holds as well that "mass dependent" metals such as aluminum and lead whose conductivity and magnetic field strength properties are highly influenced by the mass of metal present, can present themselves as just about any target ID in the range. There indeed is no free lunches in detecting just a variation in the cost of the lunch, and the biggest practical joke that physics and nature have played on detectorists using VLF IB machines is that there really hasn't been a machine made yet that can reliably convey to the user the difference between a middle of the road gold target and a middle of the road aluminum target.

To Randy: The Nokta Simplex has a vibrate upon target detection feature also the screen backlight can be set to turn on automatically if a target is detected. To Hello: No such features on the Equinox - Most target signals will display a target ID number if you are running silent. BTW. the speaker automatically cuts out when headphones (wired or wireless) are used. But frankly sound is more important than visual when it comes to detecting targets that is why it is important to set up your detector to minimize chatter or false target audio from electromagnetuc interference aka EMI (e.g., power lines, cell and wifi radios, etc), ground noise, and ferrous junk using the built in detector noise cancellation, ground balance, discrimination and iron bias settings to extent practical while limiting attenuation of the desirable target signals in the process. It is a delicate balancing act that comes easier with lots of detecting experience and is a major point of frustration for those who are too impatient to climb the requisite learning curve.

If you can find a pair for $90 dollars it certainly would be worth it at that price point but a deal like that does not come along too often, though. 5 years ago, I started with the Deus lite, that lasted a few weeks and opted for a full setup and justified the purchase by getting a second, different coil. So i am coming from the perspective of knowing what the lite limitations are, and to me, without the benefit of having an ORX system to fall back on back then, I was missing A LOT. Today, I would dip my toe in the XP water with ORX and decide if Deus was worth it and just getting the WS4 might be worth it for a minimal investment (e.g., 1/3 the new price tag like in your case) to help me decide. It would not be a permanent stop for me though - the inability to save my settings and take advantage of those custom slots for lack of a remote control would drive me nuts. The thing I miss most on ORX is lack of pitch tones. The VCO audio plus use of what the display is telling me (not just target ID but depth/horsehoe ferrous probablity display) are tightly integrated in my style of Deus hunting. If the ORX simply had pitch audio as an option to 3 tones, I could almost walk away from the Deus altogether save for a few ORX user interface quirks (lack of sufficient custom program slots and inability to switch back and forth between program slots) that also detract from my method of target interrogation. Lack of ability to switch ID NORM off/on as on Deus is another, secondary annoyance. On the flip side, the fact that ORX DOES normalize target ID on the HF coils (unlike the Deus) is a good thing.

The only real advantage is that if you have two coils you can basically have 2 detectors as George said. Other than that, the Deus lite provides very little advantage over the Orx other than a wider selection of tone choices (2, 3, 4, 5, Full, or pitch tones), a wider range of reactivity settings (0 to 5), ability to control the silencer filter directly, ability to control iron volume, and ability to switch ID norm off. Compared to Orx, you lose the visual target ID and other display information, coil pinpoint mode, and the convenient ground grab feature. Not really worth the $250 investment IMO unless you value the backup detector aspect.

No. It is because Fisher has only delivered 8 of the 99 machines they intend to build for this iteration. Manufacturing yield is probably low because this is a new production line and all the initial glitches that come with that and productivity has been significantly curtailed in general due to the virus, so the machines are trickling out to those on the waiting list.

It is a great bargain for what it does. You can add wireless to it for probably about 30 Euros using a low latency BT transceiver module like these and your existing ML BT headphones. Just another example of how we might be overcharged for these added features in higher end models.

The Deus can indeed be run with just the headphones and the coil. In fact, UK users often detect only with the headphone and coil because their soil does not require a lot of continuous adjustments and the hunters detect primarily by audio and not target ID, digging all non-ferrous. So they usually leave the remote in the car. There are pros and cons to Deus lite that I will try to explain below. First of all, I have run the Deus lite setup but mainly as a backup when I need an extra detector for the kids or a guest. Deus lite is also not just limited to WS4 phones. You can run Deus lite with WS5 phones too. I like the WS4 phones however because the puck is detachable which means you can configure it to attach to not just the back phones but also to third party over the ear headphones that can accommodate the puck. Also there are adapters you can install on the puck to give you a standard mini or 1/4 inch headphone jack into which you can plug your favorite wired phones. You can then stick the puck in your pocket or mount it on the stem or on your wrist using available XP accessories. In that manner you can read target ID off the WS4 puck display. If you have two Deus coils, a Deus remote and Deus wireless haedphones - you basically have two Deus lite detector systems. One using just the headphones and one coil and the other using the other coil, the remote and a set of wired headphones plugged into the remote control (or you can just run with the remote control speaker - no volume control, however). That is the flexibility inherent in the Deus wireless system universe, multiple configuration possibilites. Deus lite makes a great backup mode, but I learned early on, that is not a great way to get introduced to the Deus and can be a frustrating configuration for the long haul. More on that later. First let me explain the interrelationship between the Deus system components. The Deus system is comprised of the coil, the controller, wireless or wired headphones, and the optional wireless pinpointer. I will ignore the pinpointer for the purpose of this discussion. The coil, controller, and wireless phones are all powered by dedicated lithium power cells, therefore, you need to charge each one separately if you want to use them on a hunt. The coil contains the "brains". That where the custom programs are actually stored not on the controller. The controller simply serves as an interface by which the user can adjust global settings (e.g., coil in use, speaker audio, pair coils, heaphones, and the pinpointer, etc.). The remote also serves as the means by which changes to coil program settings are adjusted and then saved to the coil resulting in either "on the fly" changes in settings (e.g., frequency or sensitivity or ground balance) or to save custom settings so they can be recalled after the detector is shut off (settings remain in volatile memory for the duration of thee hunt and then disappear if they are not saved). The Deus affords the user 8 custom program slots to go along with the 10 preloaded program slots You can change parameters in the preloaded program slots but those changes will disappear after power down unless you save them in a custom slot. The remote also serves the purpose of being the conduit of audio to the wired or wireless headphones (as received from the coil) unless the wireless headphones connect directly to the coil in the absence of the controller (i.e., the Deus lite configuration). The remote serves as primary the user interface to adjust settings, to view target ID information and ground balance, mineralization, depth, and current parameter setting information (e.g., frequency, sensitivity level, etc.) and to switch the coil into pinpoint mode. Finally, you MUST HAVE a remote control unit to upload system software updates for the remote, coil, and headphones. So in summary, if you just have the WS4 or WS5 phones, you do have the ability to access and adjust several detector parameter settings such as coil selection, program selection (including both preloaded programs and any saved custom programs), volume, discrimination, sensitivity, reactivity (recovery speed), transmit power, audio modulation level, iron volume, ground balance and number of ID tones used. It will also display target ID if it is connected to the coil without the remote. What you cannot do is, save custom programs, go into coil pinpoint mode, observe ground balance or mineralization readings in real time, observe useful graphical information on ferrous target probability or depth, or the X-Y screen which can help ID junk targets. It also limits your ability to easily do target interrogation by quickly changing settings or programs when swinging above a target. You also can't update your coils or headphones without the remote. In other words, if you already have a remote, the lite setup is a good backup, grab and go mode, but not something I would recommend as a long-haul Deus configuration because you lose the capability to do some significant things like updates and saving custom programs as well as having to live with some significant user interface limitations on target ID and site conditions. This is all spelled out well in Andy Sabisch's Deus Handbook and Andy and I teach these nuances in the Deus bootcamp sessions that Andy periodically gives around the country (I routinely assist Andy as an instructor when he does a Bootcamp sessions within a reasonable distance of my location). HTH

You are comparing apples (340), oranges (540 PRO PACK) to bananas (Simplex+ with wireless headphones). With the pro pack 540 price you are also paying for the extra coil . You can get a 540 (non pro pack) for about 440 Euro and that should be your point of comparison to the 340 and leave the Simplex out of the discussion entirely since wireless is built in and you are paying only for the additional wireless phones (which are proprietary and not bluetooth where you can get your own headphones at a much cheaper cost). Since you can get cheaper BT headphones that the cost of what ML wants to sell them, then the Pro Pack price becomes somewhat of a red herring. Saying the 340 is number 1, except it is just missing wireless audio is like saying the 600 is as good as the 800 if it only had gold mode. The whole point is if you want the feature, you are going to have to pay for it but ML knows those features are nice or convenient, but not necessary. I am sure ML is under-pricing the entry level of the line so they can get people to impulse buy the cheaper detector. Those more discerning buyers start to realize the convenient features (pinpoint, wireless) that are missing and are drawn to the higher end of the line which is probably over priced in comparison. It all evens out. They sell more of the cheaper units to the impulse buyers and make an equivalent profit off the fewer sold higher end products with desirable features that don't exist in the bottom of the product line. Anyway, welcome to tiered pricing and marketing. Your wish is not going to be granted by Minelab because they have already decided what YOU will have to pay if you want wireless capability and don't hold your breath for it coming to the 340 or even 440 any time soon. Let's break this down. First of all 340 vs. 440 > There is absolutely nothing physically different between these two detectors other than an additional button for pinpoint mode. The 440 feature set basically just unlocks an additional search mode, additional volume controls, additional sensitivity controls, and additional notch segments. None of that is hardware based. Do you really think that justifies an 85 Euro difference? (250 vs. 335 Euro?) Nope. Now let's look at the 440 vs. 540 - The hardware differences are a larger coil and the addition of the wireless radio unit. The other performance feature additions are just window dressing: custom mode slot, iron bias switch, and additional volume, sensitivity, and notch segments vs. the 440. The cost delta is 335 vs. 442 Euro. Over 100 Euro for the larger coil and radio. Let's assume most of that cost is borne by the addition of the radio. Then you are talking between 150 to 185 Euro just to add the radio and account for the cost delta between the 340 and 440. Is that worth it? In other words, do you really believe ML would put a 340 plus with wireless radio in it out there for less than 150 Euro above the current cost - probably not. So you might as well just get the 540 if you want wireless - because that is what ML wants you to do. They dangle a very desirable feature and ONLY provide it in their top end of the Vanquish line FOR A REASON. Is it right, is it fair - probably not, but as far as ML is concerned it is business.

Hello, First, I forgot to mention another related advantage to having the higher frequency options on Equinox - this is somewhat related to the fact that the higher frequencies tend to be better suited to detecting smaller targets. The higher frequencies may allow you to separate targets better in situations where there are high densities of targets in the ground. Separation of adjacent targets is mostly a function of how quickly the detector recovers after it detects and processes a target signal during your coil sweep. High recovery speed detectors (like the Equinox) enable adjacent targets to be picked up better because the detector has detected, processed, ID'd and signaled the target's presence very quickly and is available to detect the next target during your sweep. Secondary factors that help to better separate targets are the coil size and the operating frequency. Intuitively smaller coils and higher frequencies working in conjunction with the detector's set recovery speed enhance separation. One thing to be clear on though, if you haven't already started to figure this out, metal detecting is all about balancing trade-offs. In this case, optimizing for target separation can result in a decrease in detection depth. That may be OK for the situation at hand, but you just need to be aware of and balance the tradeoff. Your ability to know the capabilities of your machine and to balance its settings and the associated tradeoffs are skills that enhance your detecting success and just like learning a musical instrument takes time, practice, and patience. It is this learning curve phase, where you are digging a lot of junk targets, that many new detectorists find daunting, boring, or frustrating and they abandon their new hobby as result. All this to say, do not worry about asking lots of questions at this point. There is not a lot about metal detecting and metal detectors that is necessarily intuitive. The questions you are asking indicate actually the opposite of being "slow". You are asking good questions, especially considering the natural language challenges that come with such a highly technical discussion. Now to answer your specific question regarding ground balancing: On both the 600 and 800, ground conductivity effects are balanced through manual action one of two ways. The manual method has you manually vary the ground balance setting as you listen to the ground feedback noise while bouncing the coil vertically above the ground until the noise "nulls" out or reaches a minimum. The other "auto" method automatically adjusts the ground setting while you bounce the coil above the ground. The auto GB method is the one that is most commonly use. The 600 and 800 also have a tracking mode that automatically rebalances the detector while detecting as changes in the ground conductivity are sensed. This method has some advantages in highly variable ground conditions but also has drawbacks because it reacts slowly (so it is not good to just start swinging in tracking mode without first setting the ground balance using auto or manual gb) and can also result in reduced sensitivity on very small targets like small gold nuggets because it is not as precise as manual/auto ground balancing. Regarding your question on whether the 600 is good for archaeology: Be careful about detecting information or marketing sites putting detectors into specific categories. When it comes to coin shooting or detecting artifacts, there is a lot of overlap and gray areas. The 600 does just fine at recovering artifacts as it does with coins, beach detecting, and also its capabilities to detect natural gold. Like I said previously, the advantage of the 800 is slightly more versatility in settings that enable you focus on more specific target types or deal with unusual site conditions (lots of trash, difficult soils, etc). Just about any decent modern detector will do well on detecting artifacts as well as coins limited only by the versatility of the settings to handle the site conditions and target types at the site. Hope this helps.