Issue With Axiom And Ground Noise

[All_Metal_Mode]

Absolutely not something I want to be reading about for an initial launch, especially in a market as critical to the improvement/advancement of the sport. 

The timing couldn’t be worse either, what with you being so far afield during the holiday period with no backup plan. This is one of those situations where if I was an exclusive dealer I’d be driving to your location wearing a ramshackle Santa Clause outfit, a new and pre-tested Axiom, and a free WR-1 I’d be charging on the way up. 

This sort of thing is inevitable with the first run of any new electronics, though the situation isn’t usually so dire. What I want to see is how Garrett reacts and makes it right. If they are given a reasonable way to react to whatever is going on with your unit, since they can’t give you back your lost time. While I agree that the price paid should indicate premium quality, any one of a thousand things can happen in initial production. They can’t be faulted for the pickle you’re in, but they can be for the equipment not working.

I want the Axiom to work in Australia because then we might start to see some competition driving innovation towards both the hobby and professional sides of metal detecting.

[jasong]

Any chance you could borrow another Axiom, like a demo unit from the dealer to try out at that spot? Rent one for a day in Kalgoorlie, just to test with? 

I don't know jack about the Axiom, and I don't want to step on any toes especially those owned by people who do know a lot about the Axiom. But what you are showing in your video - if it were any other PI - does not to me indicate a defective machine. It shows what I'd expect normally from a PI in highly variable ground. Not just hot ground - but highly variable hot ground. 

If you have a chance to run another Axiom over the same ground to establish what is and isn't normal then you could much easier determine if your machine is defective or not since you'd have a reference frame for comparison.

Minelab themselves were telling me my 6000 was normal for months. I knew they were wrong - because I tested other 6000's in the same place and same time and knew they were all affected by the same issue. Sometimes you just really gotta do a bunch of comparing to figure out what normal is....

I wouldn't recommend this for someone sitting in LA or Phoenix. But being out in the bush and looking at a potentially lost trip - man I can relate and I've been there, and I understand the frustration. As such, I try to make absolutely sure my machine is really defective before I sent it in when I'm in full-on prospecting mode.

[Gone Bush]

14 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

Could not agree more! You need to try it to actually believe it. To me, this coil was a total game changer for the Z without the need to cut the cable.

Even after resigning my self to Z now being to heavy for me, I still spent a considerable amount of time and money on assorted devices trying to develop a suitable way to continue with it.
Last try was a modified Stihl pole trimmer support brace! Still no good.
Resolved to just start wearing a skirt and sell the Z.
Thankfully 6000 came along at pretty much exactly this time so there was a lighter option.

All of that time and effort was put in because of how much the NF changed the Z for the better.
Different tone took some getting used to but overall I still think the Z/small NF coil is still the premium detector combination based on detecting ability alone.
Don't know why Minelab has not cut a deal with Rohan at NF to start selling the Z with the small NF coil as the standard coil.
This would generate substantial interest from newbies, help with flagging sales and more correctly match the predominately small gold environment we now find ourselves in here. 

We still have two Z's at prospecting home base but the crew are all well into their 50's, 60's, 70's and a few 80's now so they rarely get taken out.
Last time was May this year.
Took a Z and 19" coil out to the lease to scan the bottom of the 200 ounce hole to see if we had already excavated the entire reef or if it kicked of again at a depth only the Z/19" could hear.
Had we got a decent signal, the jackhammers would have come out (its our mining lease before the comments rain down) along with no doubt beer, in sizeable quantities.
No result unfortunately.
Also unfortunately, the ground there is some of the hardest calcrete bonded boondies I have seen so the old backhoe we have there has now run out of oompf to be able to go any deeper.
Further investigation will now be purely speculative and require a sizeable excavator (likely 30 ton or better) with rock hammer and maybe even some boom boom. Unlikely to happen any time soon.

[Gone Bush]

16 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation than many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ/NF12 in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors (also from a price point!), but for me performance in difficult situations is all that matters. But these particular needs are certainly not what makes a detector great or not. I am sure the Axiom is an excellent detector and a welcomed competitor for ML, and it will make a very convincing case for a great all-round PI with a settings package that the 6000 is lacking (unfortunately).

GC

Felt I should further reply to this comment.

Steve H, having extensively experienced both Western Australia's version of hot ground and Northern California's version of hot ground, states pretty plainly and often that the NC version is very much the more difficult to detect on.

So, Aussies that read these forums, please take note of what the USA regulars post on here, (like Gold Catcher), particularly those members who predominately operate in the super hot areas.
It's common sense that they will have a higher skill set with a detector on the ground they are forced to work with.
On many occasions just reviewing posts has given me not only assistance with an issue and daily prospecting but a much greater understanding of detector operation.

To all those who contribute for no other reason to help others, thank you.

[Gone Bush]

Out in the bush again.

This spot is closer to town, about 20 klms out.
It’s quite an interesting patch.
Looks like any other ground but seems to have mineralisation different to anywhere else.
6000 does work here maxed out but requires quite the amount of attention to keep running ok.
Very frequent ground balances, like every 2 minutes, and a ground balance and resweep over any signal before excavation.
Doable but hard work.

Axiom blew me away.
Mode fine, speed medium, sensitivity 4 but easily handled 6 and even 8 would be usable after a little more time under the belt.
All in fine mode!
Cant believe the same detector that yesterday had issues with a creek bed the 6000 was generally pretty good on could come, of all places, here, and knock it out of the park.
I think I might have a crush.
Seriously, even the possible hot ground problems can’t stop me from liking this thing in a way I never did with 6000.
Almost like the 6000 is all business and ‘look at me’ but Axiom is more like ‘Chill man, if it’s there I’ll like let you know dude’.
Still gives you the feedback on changing ground but in a less intrusive way.
If Axiom ran on 7-8 ground like It did here today, well, I would say 6000 does have serious competition.
Big call I know but I can’t emphasise how impressive it was today.
There is no comparison on ergonomics as well.
6000 feels like a home made built in a rush low end kind of thing whereas Axiom is all about quality and comfort.
Headphones are shithouse and still have that dull clicking noise that sounds like mini relays opening/closing in time with the threshold.
Don't hear that on wired headphones. Definitely see a WR-1 in my future.

So, after today, I’m still not convinced that this particular unit has a problem.
As I say in the video, maybe I just picked a few patches that Axiom doesn’t like in the same way 6000 gets uppity on some places I take it.
Until I am convinced there is a fault, I shall continue as planned.
Having trouble reconciling how a detector can be so shit for days then turn into buttery perfectness.
Prospectors Patch in Kalgoorlie (Jamie) is closed until the 30th January so bit of a pickle there anyway.
Will give him a call in a couple of days and see what he suggests.
Would be nice to hear from someone at Garrett Australia sometime soon as well.

 

[Gold Catcher]

6 hours ago, Gone Bush said:

So, Aussies that read these forums, please take note of what the USA regulars post on here, (like Gold Catcher), particularly those members who predominately operate in the super hot areas.

Thanks, Gone Bush. Yes indeed, many areas in CA have serious hot rock issues, either due to volcanic activities (Mojave desert in the South) or due the nature of the iron rich geology of the motherlode belt (i.e. Serpentine schist, North). Now, we also have better and milder grounds for detecting, so it is certainly not all that bad across the entire state. It just would be nice to have a workable and light machine available for these problematic areas where other machines can't be used (with the GPZ being perhaps an exception, with the settings I described). Although in AU the nature of the soil is very different, you surely don't lack difficult ground conditions there neither (!), so the Axiom could be a great value detector with its reported GB capabilities. It would be very interesting to go back to the same spot where you shot the clip to see if the same test nugget would be picked up after the fix. But this might be a long journey, so probably not feasible. I hope you can at least use the Axiom in less hot grounds during your trip, with some nice gold for you to take home regardless. You surely earned it. Good luck!

GC

[Gold Catcher]

PS: Just saw your new clip, good to see that it runs better. I noticed at the beginning of the clip that it tends to track out rather quickly with the settings that you are using, something Lunk was pointing out as well, I think. How does the Axiom do at some depth in that ground? Can you burry the nugget a few inch to see if it still picks it up?

Cheers!

GC 

[blackjack]

I'm finding hard to keep up, is it crap or, or do you have a crush, is it hard work or blowing you away dude.

[Gone Bush]

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

PS: Just saw your new clip, good to see that it runs better. I noticed at the beginning of the clip that it tends to track out rather quickly with the settings that you are using, something Lunk was pointing out as well, I think. How does the Axiom do at some depth in that ground? Can you burry the nugget a few inch to see if it still picks it up?

Cheers!

GC 

Depth testing is next in the list.
Still need to figure out why it’s so unstable in some locations and not others.
 

[Gone Bush]

6 hours ago, blackjack said:

I'm finding hard to keep up, is it crap or, or do you have a crush, is it hard work or blowing you away dude.

A fair question without an easy answer.

Based on its performance today, at that particular tenement, I would say it’s the best thing since strawberry flavoured lube.
Based on yesterday morning, at that particular location, I would say same same as 6000 but much better on hot rocks.
Based on yesterday afternoon, at that particular location, I would say it’s a boat anchor.
Based on the day before that, at that particular location, I would say I would rather have the clap.

On some ground it certainly appears to be an over full bucket of crap.
On todays patch, I couldn’t have wanted a better detector.

Still have not determined the cause for such varying performance.
This particular unit may have a defect of some kind that, on hot ground, causes it to take a dump.
Have pretty much eliminated the usual suspects like coil, connectors etc.
Assumed from previous days/locations that choosing today’s location, (where 6000 needs constant attention to be stable), would confirm that Axiom is a faulty unit.
End result, as stated, was the exact opposite. 
Now I have to choose another location that I know is hotter than normal and try again.
Fiona has her 4800 that we use to gauge ground conditions so if Axiom has difficulty on ground that is relatively ok with a little bit of tuning on the 4800 I know there is a problem with the Axiom.
Just keep trying different locations and settings in an attempt to narrow down the cause.

Might resolve it tomorrow, might take a week. How long is a piece of string?