Issue With Axiom And Ground Noise

[Gone Bush]

6 hours ago, peterinaust said:

In the new year, was thinking of a 6000 and followed the problems it was having and seems to be ok now. And then the Axiom came along and made me lean more towards the Axiom, and you started having trouble (looks like the only one though) should be a few more in oz by now? you would think.

Thank you so much for posting and spending so much time to try and get to the bottom of this problem, when you could be out finding gold.

I wander if Garrett in the US follow DP? and chase it up with Garrett in oz. From what we hear Garrett are very good with warranty. We will see.

Thank you thank you for posting.

Cheers Peter.

I 

Absolutely nothing wrong with going for a 6000.
Given a suitable location and with a Nugget Finder Exceed 12 x 7 and 16 x 10 you absolutely will find good gold.

My counsel however would be to wait.
While I have heard from varied sources that current production 6000’s are ok, it was only 3 moths ago when one of the group bought a 6000 and it lasted one day. I assume this type of thing as what you are referring to.
Having said that I must stress that Minelab have been absolutely, unequivocally, fantastic in their response to any issues we have had.
Same person who got the dead 6000 also had a 7000 that was out of warranty but hardly used until mid this year when it failed.
Turns out the 19” coil shorted and fried something in the control box.
On the same day they received it, Minelab repaired the 7000, replaced the defective 19” coil and shipped it back out at no charge.
Given their currently exceptional levels of service, I think the potential failure of a 6000 control unit should be a minor consideration when making a purchase decision. Coils, not so much 🤣
My reason for suggesting you wait is because I believe that Axiom, with aftermarket coils, will be a better overall package than 6000.
Cant see it being a long wait either.
Garrett did the smart thing and avoided the temptation to include some form of 🤬 proprietary chip or whatever so only their coils or those licensed by them can be used.
This means, and I know for a fact it is already happening, coil manufacturers will be designing and releasing coil alternatives very quickly, especially as first in usually takes the largest market share and therefore an insurmountable lead in the market.
I do think it will be slightly different than the aftermarket coil rollout for the 6000 though.
Mono 11” coils for the 6000 fail with such alarming regularity that I went through 5 up until Rohan at NF sent me a 12 x 7 developmental coil to use.
The time between 6000 release and the first aftermarket coils from Coiltek being available was over a year.
At this point 6000 had built its reputation as the absolute leader on fine gold and subsequently reached a high level of uptake. Not market saturation of potential buyers but close.
So now you’ve got thousands of 6000 owners pissed at their failing coils and looking for options.
Therefore, as soon as Coiltek released their offerings they couldn’t keep up with demand for months.
With Axiom, detector stock is somewhat limited and there are not as many Garrett groupies as Minelab.
Hand built machines made in the USA have a drastically different production process than a 6000.
So with the ability to get coils into the market in maybe a quarter of the time it took for the 6000 and a much lower number of available buyers, I doubt there will be the scarcity that has accompanied coil releases for Minelab machines.
I note that Garrett Australia does not have the accessory coils for Axiom (like the 11 x 7 DD) listed on their website.
This leads me to believe that aftermarket coils for Axiom may well be readily available before Garrett themselves can reliably stock and offer the full range of their own accessory coils.

If you have your Christmas present money burning a hole in your pocket and are impatient like most of us, it’s unlikely you would regret buying a 6000 over Axiom.
Because the amount and quality of food on my table is in direct proportion to what gold I find, obviously, I always want to know that whatever is attached to my arm will, for whatever reason, provide me with the best possible chance of success.
Hence I am an early adopter and tend to want the newest thing out for my money in the assumption (read: Hope) that it will give me an advantage.
Should you be one of those lucky enough to call gold prospecting a hobby rather than employment, you can maybe afford to wait and make a much more informed decision.

Hope this helps 😊

 

[Aureous]

1 hour ago, Gone Bush said:

I do think it will be slightly different than the aftermarket coil rollout for the 6000 though.
Mono 11” coils for the 6000 fail with such alarming regularity that went through 5 up until Rohan at NF sent me a 12 x 7 developmental coil to use.

I hope your evaluation of the 12x7 is a premonition of my own experience next month.....only been waiting since June. I will be using nothing else for a long time methinks, even though I was lucky enuff to receive a 'good' 11" with my 6000.

 

1 hour ago, Gone Bush said:

Because the amount and quality of food on my table is in direct proportion to what gold I find, obviously, I always want to know that whatever is attached to my arm will, for whatever reason, provide me with the best possible chance of success.

Been there, done that. I was a big fan of buying new gear, eating steak, drinking whiskey each night on the good weeks......not a fan of eating 2 year old spaghetti from a tin and not even a beer for a wash-down on the bad weeks....  Always best to have a back-up source of income before heading out 'professional'.   Thankfully, these days even 5 grams of gold a week with a 6000 can keep you in food, fuel and a little grog if you live rough in the bush.

[Gone Bush]

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I’ve said I think it’s defective based on my use, Lunk says the same, the lead engineer concurs. How many more opinions are needed that something is not right? I left myself an out with my statement though because unless it’s me there on the ground holding the detector in my own hands, there is a degree of speculation left, not 100% certainty.

I’ve never had a hint of coil knock ever, with any Axiom coil, on any ground, at any setting. That enough is all I need to see to say something is not right.

So, Steve, Lunk and lead engineer, you are correct. Definitely a faulty unit.

Start the morning on a patch that I would guess is a 6 for mineralisation.
East of Kalgoorlie about 20 klms.
Cant be sure as Fiona has headed back to Perth with her 4800.
Axion is perfect, runs like a dream.
Not only that but in fine with sensitivity on 6, 7 and sometimes 8. Bootiful.
Wouldn’t recommend 8 for everyone but I run 6000 maxed out so am used to that style of detecting.
No gold but the usual suspects, shotgun pellets, swarf, rusty shit from kero and tobacco tins etc etc.
There was a .22 projectile I heard at about 11 inches down that surprised me.
One side mangled from hitting something then I guess deflecting into the ground?
Unusually deep for a .22 though. Had me wondering if I was on previously disturbed ground.
Switch off, Axiom and I go inside to make a sandwich for lunch (I have a Land Cruiser with air conditioned single man’s quarters on the back) and reply/post a couple of posts on here.
After lunch, bit over an hour later, switch back on and Boom Crash Opera has a concert in the goldfields.
Back to how it was in the creek. Unusable.
Definitely a fault of some kind that comes and goes at will.
So each occasion it ran well was obviously because it was running normally and each occasion it was shit was due to this intermittent fault.
Reset, DD coil, power cycles, nothing helps.
Annoying but at least I know for sure now.
Sorry I doubted you Steve mate friend…..
Hopefully Garrett Australia are paying attention and have a replacement available.

What this also tells me is that on ground like yesterday out Leonora road that is a pain for 6000, fault free Axiom ran smoother than a supermodels ass.
So congrats on that Garrett, a winner on that shitty ground.

Conclusion for me, based on no fault operation, is it’s really just the next step in detector evolution.
6000 will find gold so small that a $100 set of scales can’t weigh it so trying to find anything smaller than that would be redundant.
Ground balancing is what sets it apart.
Meaning a borderline target on 6000 maxed out could well be swallowed up in ground noise (especially on ground like where we were yesterday) whereas Axiom seems better at holding back that ground noise to bring an otherwise marginal target to your attention. So I guess it’s not finding deeper nuggets per se, just enabling you to better hear what you would likely miss with 6000. Kind of work smarter not harder. Notwithstanding it being faulty, I do love it.
And with some aftermarket coils I am confident there is more depth to be had.

Anyway, mines definitely cactus so need another one!

Best wishes to all, and thank you for your help and suggestions, it means a lot,
Ray

 

[Gone Bush]

2 hours ago, Aureous said:

I hope your evaluation of the 12x7 is a premonition of my own experience next month.....only been waiting since June. I will be using nothing else for a long time methinks, even though I was lucky enuff to receive a 'good' 11" with my 6000.

 

Been there, done that. I was a big fan of buying new gear, eating steak, drinking whiskey each night on the good weeks......not a fan of eating 2 year old spaghetti from a tin and not even a beer for a wash-down on the bad weeks....  Always best to have a back-up source of income before heading out 'professional'.   Thankfully, these days even 5 grams of gold a week with a 6000 can keep you in food, fuel and a little grog if you live rough in the bush.

If you have had a 7 and put the NF 12” Z search on it, that kind of parallels the 12 x 7 Exceed on 6000 experience except with 6000 the tone doesn’t change.
Rohans coils make 6000 what it should have been when you buy it new.
Smoother, quieter and reliable. Bear in mind you do sacrifice some depth with the 12 x 7 but most laterite gravel areas we detect are quite shallow so not really a concern for us.
Personally, the 16 x 10 will be my go to coil when they are available.
Deeper than the standard 11” but still able to poke it under a bush or in between some rocks. While Steve was in Meekatharra with JP and son he saw this coil in action and I think would back me up that its ‘the shit’.
Two weeks ago I had a play with the 9” round Coiltek and was hugely impressed.
Im not a Coiltek person (Holden/Ford) but to go over it just once more and make absolutely sure you leave not a single crumb behind, this is the coil to have. Obviously not as deep as the standard 11” but more sensitive that the man in the canoe.

Yes, full time prospecting, (professional suggests ability’s I don’t possess at anything other than masturbation), is a roller coaster ride off feast or famine.
Two years ago, before 6000, gay prostitution was looking viable.
Then along came 6000 and last year was best ever. Over a kilo.
Now, with Axiom, 6000 and for those 2 day drives down bush tracks looking for virgin ground (as rare as a real virgin in this day and age), the 7000, we can walk away from a patch pretty confident that we got everything there is to get.

The old joke, how do you make $500,000.00 prospecting? Start with a million.

 

[Gone Bush]

3 hours ago, Aureous said:

Maybe Im missing something in this very long thread, but GB states that in other locations, the Axiom runs amazingly well? Im thinking that the knock noise is a coil axis issue due to the severe soil. In these mineral soil conditions, the soil becomes conductive like salt but worse.  In the zinc soil I mentioned, the Geologists could run a DC current thru the dirt for several meters. The earth field becomes amplified also. But like you said Steve, without physically being there, its all guess work and we could all be completely wrong....

Turns out it’s not actually a location based issue but only crops up on random power cycles.
Tried cycling it maybe 20 times today but would not drop out the fault.
 

[Gold Catcher]

4 hours ago, Gone Bush said:

Two weeks ago I had a play with the 9” round Coiltek and was hugely impressed.
Im not a Coiltek person (Holden/Ford) but to go over it just once more and make absolutely sure you leave not a single crumb behind, this is the coil to have. Obviously not as deep as the standard 11” but more sensitive that the man in the canoe.

I concur. The 9 Goldhawk is a delight, and it is my to-go coil for the 6k in tighter areas (for more open ground I mostly use the Z/NF12). I didn't do the 6k fix as I am only running with BT without ever using the internal speaker, and with the 9 inch Coiltek I have no EMI issues to an extent that would require a potential fix. I am usually a NF guy (12 NF-Zsearch is probably the best coil I have ever owned), but US-supply is a huge challenge with no (reliable) delivery date in site for the Xceeds (sigh). One thing I will continue to monitor is the Axiom's ability to find fast gold at some depth while running smooth in hot ground (7-9 ground by your definition). That to me is where the sweet spot will be. I want to see what sensitivity is left while "quiet", and at what depth. Just a smooth threshold in hot ground won't make the pill box rattle. There have been some very promising reports on DP by the early testers, but I want to hear this from retail operators who actually paid for their machines, without any promotional incentive or dealer's background, and who will have a hard (and skeptical) look at it (e.g. you-once machine fixed, Norvic, others.). 

GC

[Gone Bush]

34 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

I concur. The 9 Goldhawk is a delight, and it is my to-go coil for the 6k in tighter areas (for more open ground I mostly use the Z/NF12). I didn't do the 6k fix as I am only running with BT without ever using the internal speaker, and with the 9 inch Coiltek I have no EMI issues to an extent that would require a fix. I am usually a NF guy (12 NF-Zsearch is probably the best coil I have ever owned), but US-supply is a huge challenge with no (reliable) delivery date in site for the Xceeds (sigh). One thing I will continue to monitor is the Axioms ability to find fast gold at some depth while running smooth in hot ground (7-9 ground by your definition). That to me is where the sweet spot will be. I want to see what sensitivity is left while quiet, and at what depth. Just a smooth threshold in hot ground won't make your pill box rattle. There have been some very promising reports on DP by the early testers, but I want to hear this from retail operators who actually paid for their machine, and who will have a hard (and skeptical) look at it (e.g. you, Norvic, etc.). 

GC

I’ve never bothered with the speaker fix either. Always use a Boss electric guitar wi fi trans receive setup, Bounty Booster amp and ZX Pro headphones.

Agree on NF. Every detector I have purchased for gold has had a NF coil and none have ever failed or been an issue in any way.
Impossible to even guess a percentage of improvement Rohans coils give you but I would be certain they cover their cost many times over.
Smooth on hot ground is good but a frisbee on the end of a stick will run smooth on a sheet of 1/2 inch steel plate so you are absolutely correct, there is more to it than that.
I am quietly confident and have experienced sensitivity 8 on what I consider difficult verging on extreme ground still hit that shotgun pellet at 4 inches and a .22 projectile at 11 inches before it crapped out.
Wanted to weigh the projectile but threw it in the bloody bin with the rest of the trash.
Need a trained raccoon to go in and get it for me.
Unfortunately, every man and his trained raccoon has a detector now and the game has predominantly become one of bulk sub grammers to make up your required weight.
6000 made that viable and given my experience with Axiom so far, I do believe it will get more of those small nuggets but obviously any attempt to accurately determine how much more would be speculation at this point.

For me, even if it only matches 6000 in recovered gold, it’s operational weight, comfort, build quality, (yes, I know), an external speaker that is up to the task and not from the back page of a Radio Shack catalog, available range of coils both Garrett and others, battery life, settings etc etc make it worthwhile.
As I’ve said, my biggest dislike is the unit being shipped with headphones from the set of Flying High.
A good set of cans (audio reproduction, not human reproduction) plugged in to Axiom is kind of like the Z search coil on 7000. It really does bring the audio to life and are a must have on days that are too windy to rely on the speaker.
This started as a thread on a dodgy Axiom but once I get a replacement unit I will keep updating with success/failures.

[Gone Bush]

Replacement Axiom in hand.

 

[peterinaust]

Your back!! and good to see Gone Bush. And a good result in the end, good on to your dealer for the excellent service he gave you over the holiday season.

Watched your YouTube and best description I have seen yet. Fully understand re the threshold pitch, so a setting of 80 I think you said is that high or low tone?

Really good outcome. I think I have made up my mind now on which way to go, that won't be until April, hope there's still plenty of stock by then.

Cheers, Peter

[Steve Herschbach]

I'm glad your dealer was able to quickly get a new detector into your hands. The old one was "tainted" by your experience with it, and you may never really have trusted it, even if it was fixed to be good as new. And more to the point, that would have taken much longer. Looks like 2023 is off to a better start than 2022 ended on.