Gold Detector Competition, We Are All Winners. Is Something Coming Gpx-8000?

[phrunt]

The way I see it is they're chasing tiny increments in performance improvements with new models now, VLF's are really struggling to improve over previous models for some time regardless of what marketing says.  The PI's and GPZ could well be the same.   The GPX 6000 is an improvement over the earlier GPX for some tasks, especially the smaller gold side of things and worse in some areas like hot rocks and trashy areas (lack of discrimination) and a lesser jump over the SDC on smaller gold and obviously hot rock handling it seems but it's not a giant leap over the GPZ for those that have smaller coils.    I look forward to seeing what a GPZ 8000 becomes but I don't have high hopes for a dramatic improvement in performance, I'd love to be wrong but I fear we are stating to see with PI's and possibly the GPZ what we have been seeing with VLF'.  The price is too high on them to throw money at something with small improvements over the older models though.

What do we hope for in the new GPZ? A lighter package, yes, happy to pay another 10 grand and sell your GPZ at a low price as the old heavy model to upgrade to a lighter GPZ though?  Some people may, a bulk probably not.  What else can they do to improve it? Give us more coils would be a start, but that will only work on some people, others have plenty of options there on their GPZ already.

You can only impress people with fancy features and better designed housings so much when really it comes down to performance and the aim of a new model is to get buyers, lots of them.

Adding a feature like discrimination back onto a newer GPX or ideally a GPZ would bring in a new market for them, people who hunt in different areas that require this sort of feature and open them up to the coin and relic hunters again, along with some beach work, here the older GPX models are the best beach detectors as they work best in our black sands using a DD coil, and then you can use the discrimination and it does work reasonably well, not VLF discrimination but with shallower junk and deeper good targets it's fine.  I've been quite impressed with my GPX 5000's discrimination, up until about 8" it's pretty good and will certainly let you know it's a nail.  

Of course they can continue to use the Equinox with its limited depth in mineralised soils and earlier model GPX for discriminating and now the Axiom which is what they're using now but it would be nice if discrimination can be improved and added onto a detector like a new GPZ.  We don't know how well they can get it to work, if they invest the time and money into it perhaps they can get it working much better than we think, it's never been a feature that was highly developed.   With the manufacturers struggling to make detectors better than previous models everything they can add on to bring in buyers counts.

Everyone now is trying to find the harder and harder gold as the easier stuff is getting harder to find, discrimination is a way to get some of this harder stuff.  I'm not saying they can do better discrimination, I have no idea, but if they can it may help people find way more gold than any other improvement they can do.

[Gold Ryder]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

Gold Ryder,

No doubt the GPX6000 has become a very popular machine and those using it are really happy with it.  However die-hard GPZ7000 users like their GPZ7000's.  The ones that have abandoned their GPZ7000's for the GPX6000's have told me they did it because they are willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for a lighter weight machine.  But let's not forget, the GPX6000 is a pulse induction machine.  The GPZ7000 is NOT a pulse induction machine.  It's a different kind of machine.

So if the people who have abandoned their GPZ7000 for the GPX6000 recognize that there is a performance difference, but the weight was a determining factor.  I am assuming that if the GPZ7000 was as lite as the GPX6000 they would not have changed machines.

I also know of my customers who have a GPZ7000 who purchased a GPX6000 and used it, and ended up selling the GPX6000 because they wanted the performance of the GPZ, and the difference in weight did not outweigh the performance issue.  So it's a matter of what an individual values the most.

So that is what forms my opinion that a lighter GPZ machine would appeal to some detectorists.

Doc
 

I realize all that.  But limitations this far to the 6000 have been stability and sensitivity.   As 1 of the first and few who have gotten the NF exceed in the US.  I can tell you its an equalizer.   Like I said when the bigger coils come out snd if they are this stabile and sensitive. The 7000 outside of real difficult ground is gonna not have much of advantage if it all.  My point being the 8000 even if its only attribute is weight is not going to be worthy of the price tag.  My guess is from some of the info from some inside sources is that minelab realizes this and its gonna punch deep real deep.  In fact one of the limiting factors is the FAA is the hold up because of disruption in Airline coms. 

[RONS DETECTORS MINELAB]

I really plan on getting the GPZ replacement, not sure how long it will be before it comes out though. I am primarily only hoping that they make coils that are comparable to the performance of the x-coils for it. Any other features than that would be only more reason to get it. Minelab usually incorporates all their newest technologies into multiple new detector releases, so I am optimistic that it will be a winner, especially over the previous 2015 ZED that was put into a bulky CTX housing. 

[Calarms]

I agree with you Simon

A fistful of gold says 1,000 words

[Gerry in Idaho]

Discrimination is very important in certain areas and without it, you're left wasting energy and time digging trash.

I'll pay for discrimination and lighter weight.

Knowing how and when to use it is key.

[Gold Ryder]

2 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

Discrimination is very important in certain areas and without it, you're left wasting energy and time digging trash.

I'll pay for discrimination and lighter weight.

Knowing how and when to use it is key.

In my humble opinion if your not digging every target your missing gold, wether it discriminates or not.   Ive had machines tell me it was iron and trash and it turned into a nugget. I dont know too many full time pros who would say otherwise either.  Trash is just part of it. One of first things I was told by a very very successful detectorists who has traveled the world for 40 plus years and pulled thousands of ounces with a detector.   

[phrunt]

That's true, everyone knows it however there are times its not viable, for me at least. Be it hot rocks or trash that just chase you out of an area, you think it's easier to go look somewhere else.   Many of the heavy trash areas are left unexplored or at the most quickly gone over.  The only ones hit hard are where someone stumbled on good gold in them before the trash scared them away 🙂  I walk into a heavy trash area, my detector goes crazy I back off and walk the other direction 🙂

Someone that digs every bit of trash in a heavily junked area without even knowing it has gold is my super hero, I just could not do it.

If they could ever achieve VLF like discrimination on a PI it would be a great thing and put a lot of gold into pockets that's been missed or ignored.

With VLF's performance got pretty close to tapped out, so they focused on improving features, if the same is happening with PI's then discrimination is a feature that would be a very positive thing to implement and improve.

[oneguy]

I see the trash thing kinda like Phrunt.  If I'm digging trash I'm not digging gold. In my eyes it's an odds thing...the more I dig the more chance I end up with higher a piece count at the end of the day?  I know my machine (vlf), my area, my hot/cold rocks pretty good and trust what the machine tells me maybe 60-65% of the time?  That alone tilts the odds in my favor and saves ME tons of time not digging trash.  Awhile back I ruined my Goldmonster battery and showed up at my digs with a non working machine, no problem as the SDC was also with me. So I fire up the SDC and tried to salvage my hunt that day.  The rest of the day I dug nothing but trash, not one tiny bit of gold. Don't get me wrong....I have the SDC for certain situations but my preference is using the Monster for most my work mainly for its light weight and that little bit of extra info it gives me.  I dig enough trash and a few hot rocks EVERY hunt to keep me honest.  I feel the disc helps put the odds in my favor whether to walk or dig resulting in more gold at the end of my hunts. Sure I miss gold...so does everybody else.  Usually I re-hunt an area several times and eventually using both my machines before I consider it done to the best of my ability with the gear I got. Once again IMO it's an odds/numbers game, more targets more gold, less trash more gold......  I do like using both a PI along with a vlf when the ground isn't too steep or brushy, mark targets with PI then chase with the vlf...saves ME a ton of time not having to waste valuable time digging trash targets....

JMO's

[Gerry in Idaho]

We all have humble opinions on this and experiences.  Nobody is right or wrong.

I'll stick with what I've learned in my 50 yrs of detecting (30 of that gold) and use ID and Discrimination detectors when needed.  I'll never dig every signal at each site I hunt as some sites, I won't live that long.

You want to dig every signal, have at it.  Never wear blinders and think one way is the best for all situations.  Just because one is successful does not mean they are the best.

I'll start a post on this in a week or so as it will provide some free education.  Here in the NW states our gold season will be opening up in a couple months.  It's an important enough post that it does needs it's own and not run behind this original thread.

I'm not saying my way is the best.  I'm saying you do what works for you and I'll do what works for me.  I assure everyone reading this.  You hunt some of my sites and you will either die trying to prove your point or you'll get educated and learn.

I'll never dig every signal....and I know I'll miss occasional gold...and I am at peace with that.  But again, I'll never dig every signal.

 

[Gold Catcher]

I look at it differently. For deeper gold there is no discrimination, and for shallow gold the odds are mostly unfavorable. However, there are cases where it works reasonably well, i.e. on bedrock or shallow crevices. Sound check also does not work in most cases, and countless times I have recovered gold where I was almost certain it was iron trash. But again, everybody has a different style and the only thing that matters is the rattle in the pill box at the end of the day. At times, I use the boot scrape rule: if you can scrape the target away with the boot then don't bother. But for the most part I follow Jim's nuggetshooter bible mantra: dig it all!

GC