A Reimagined CTX

[Jeff McClendon]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:31 PM, phrunt said:

I don't' have time to watch the full video right now but the CTX is clearly displaying it's accurate Target ID dominance in that video, rock solid whereas the Manticore is often all over the place.

I did watch the entire video very carefully and took notes.

I own and use an E-Trac and a Manticore.

Where both detectors had solid to slightly iffy target ID/audio responses their results were very similar and accurate as far as having the same responses across their differing target ID range platforms. The first 30 targets did not pose too many problems for these detectors. The second set of 30 targets were ugly especially for the CTX.

Here is the tally on these targets, with those settings, for those weather conditions and with his iPhone on airplane mode sometimes and sometimes not. Also, my Polish is pretty bad but the CC English translation was awful. I went by what the detectors told me and not the translation. The video maker's assessment and mine are pretty close.

CTX absolutely missed 14 of 60 targets and was very iffy on 4 others

Manticore absolutely missed 3 of 60 targets and was iffy on 6 others but cleary reading 3 of those iffy targets as iron. Those three were small gold targets that were dropping down into the iron range using the All Terrain High Conductor mode.

Pretty clear which detector won.

The video maker agreed at the end of the video.

[Rattlehead]

I also remember hearing that battery limitations were the reason for not taking FBS any further. Though that was several years ago and surely battery technology has improved significantly since then. 

Anyway, I think the slow recovery speed, high conductor bias and long flutey tones were just part of the FBS DNA. Changing those things might just kill the magic FBS recipe that made it what it was. Which is a low and slow silver sucker with unmistakable tones and rock solid ID.

It would be cool to have a lightweight Etrac though.

[phrunt]

2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I did watch the entire video very carefully and took notes.

Thanks Jeff, II never got around to watching it, I don't put much weight in videos as they are not in my location and soil conditions, I'm very confident which performs the best for me finding silver coins where I hunt, the CTX destroys all else and with ease in both ID accuracy and just finding the targets in the first place.  

You seem to have the absolute wrong soil type to benefit from the FBS type detectors, they appear to prefer mild soils, or beach sands and that in a way is probably their downfall and something I hope if they make a new version ever they are able to fix so you can experience what I do and why I like the CTX so much.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Thanks Jeff, II never got around to watching it, I don't put much weight in videos as they are not in my location and soil conditions, I'm very confident which performs the best for me finding silver coins where I hunt, the CTX destroys all else and with ease in both ID accuracy and just finding the targets in the first place.  

You seem to have the absolute wrong soil type to benefit from the FBS type detectors, they appear to prefer mild soils, or beach sands and that in a way is probably their downfall and something I hope if they make a new version ever they are able to fix so you can experience what I do and why I like the CTX so much.

The video was made at a location with targets that have been planted for 3 years and the dirt around them has had almost continuous human habitation since at least the European Iron Age. So dirt conditions couldn't be much worse just like the dirt conditions couldn't be much worse due to Mother Nature where I often detect. 

That to me is the entire point. Why would Minelab spend a lot of time and effort "reimagining" a modernized FBS2 CTX 3030 when there are plenty of places and targets on this planet where it simply would not be the detector of choice or even on the list of capable and versatile Multi IQish detectors that is getting longer every day?

The same is true for wanting a reimagined E-Trac that is lighter weight and maybe waterproof. Why, for the same reasons. During the six weeks that I have owned and used the Manticore and E-Trac, the Manticore has beaten the E-Trac like a really big bass drum everywhere I have compared them. It's not even close on the milder to moderately mineralized locations that I have compared them AND I really like the E-Trac even more than I liked my former CTX3030.

I just don't see them going there since the higher end VLF metal detector market today seems to be focused on speed, versatility on every type of ground/beach/underwater conditions, competitive depth and full spectrum target detecting.

[Digalicious]

Is it true that BBS / FBS has a speed / separation problem, when compared to the newer SMF detectors beginning with the Nox? If so, I find it very unlikely that the processor is the cause of that. Even cheap processors would be able to easily handle the miniscule processing required for a metal detector. 

Aside from the weight / battery issue, perhaps Minelab realized that the speed / separation issue couldn't be overcome? That may not have been an issue back in the day, but now with all the YT'ers doing all these speed / separation / unmasking comparisons, would the FBS/ BBS fail miserably compared to the newer SMF detectors? If so, maybe Minelab foresaw that, and realized sales would be low, and returns would be high, because of that negative YT and social media exposure.

[bklein]

So why doesn’t the CTX get as outrageously noisy like the Manticore and Equinox if the Sensitivity is maxed out? I often run mine full out. I set the volume limit back some to reduce the small trash targets (beach) but it seems either the CTX could have more Sensitivity/gain or the MC/EQ could use the volume limit function.

[bklein]

Continuing, the Equinox series and Manticore have all these settings for ferrous/iron this or that. CTX doesn’t - or at least simplifies it.  For beach hunting (I’m generalizing) just not a real factor for me. Maybe they could improve performance in black sand - but it likely could be one additional “black sand” check box to set.

As far as the battery goes, I have one that I upgraded the cells on. It goes for hours and hours - I never have found out how many. The thing is it charges really fast. Much faster than say my EQ600 or Manticore. (The WM10 takes much longer.) I could have used just two cells and replicated normal duration with half the weight.

The CTX is missing the Prospecting mode and the higher Sensitivity capability. Wish it had it.  There is a balance between the Volume Limit and Sensitivity.

The CTX recommends a Sensitivity setting but it is always lower than I set.  You can run in Auto and forget about it depending on conditions (I don’t). The others don’t help you out in this regard. If they did there would be less returns and happier first time users. My CTX ground balance is set on Auto and I haven’t touched it in years. My Manticore changes GB on mode change and I didn’t realize it so it ran like that and was a pain. The NC on the CTX doesn’t work well and rarely repeats the recommended number if done repetitively.  It works great on the MC.

So firmware upgrade, lighter coils, EQ housing/shaft concept….  Or just a firmware option for the Manticore?

[Jeff McClendon]

21 hours ago, bklein said:

So why doesn’t the CTX get as outrageously noisy like the Manticore and Equinox if the Sensitivity is maxed out? I often run mine full out. I set the volume limit back some to reduce the small trash targets (beach) but it seems either the CTX could have more Sensitivity/gain or the MC/EQ could use the volume limit function.

The CTX and Etrac can have tons of sensitivity added but it won’t make much difference. That outrageously noisy aspect of the Equinox and Manticore even in the dry beach modes has more to do with operating frequencies and target recovery speed than sensitivity levels. Just my opinion from enjoying both FBS and Multi IQ.

[Jeff McClendon]

8 hours ago, bklein said:

Continuing, the Equinox series and Manticore have all these settings for ferrous/iron this or that. CTX doesn’t - or at least simplifies it.  

——-Why does Multi IQ require “all these settings for ferrous/iron this or that”.  A little research on this site under Minelab Equinox Essential Information “Minelab Multi-IQ Technology Explained” might give you the answer. FBS does not process the return signals like Multi IQ does.

The CTX is missing the Prospecting mode and the higher Sensitivity capability. Wish it had it.  

———If It had those modes and capabilities, it would not be able to ignore the tons of miniscule trash and magnetic particles that help cause the Equinox and Manticore to be “outrageously noisy”

 

[Champ Ferguson]

Speaking with a Minelab sales rep last summer when she was demo'ing and promoting the Manticore, I asked her about comparisons with the CTX and she stated that Minelab considered CTX tech to still be the best. Very emphatic about it. This was in response to my question about how Multi-IQ compared to CTX/FBS, she said something like 'we still havent reached the level of the CTX'. I took that to mean that improvement to Multi-IQ are probably in the works.

I suppose she could be pushing the more expensive machine in her statements, but she knew I had a CTX + was considering a Manticore and there really wasnt anyone listening to us at that moment.