New Minelab Manticore

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, PimentoUK said:

All this talk of "burning out an Eqx coil" is just a steaming pile of horse manure. Please stop it.

A more pertinent question is:
What is Mandingo doing that the Eqx didn't do ?
Here's the Equinox transmitted signal:
"The Equinox transmits a complex square-edged waveform, that repeats every 385 microseconds. In that waveform are 15 cycles of 39kHz, 7 cycles of 18.2kHz and 3 cycles of 7.8kHz. That is how the operating freqs are related to each other : 7.8k : 18.2k : 39k are ratios of 3 : 7 : 15."

This, as it stands is pretty good for: general detecting; low-conductor targeted detecting ( gold jewellery / ancient coins ); nugget hunting. The obvious weaker area is the lack of lower operating frequencies, which should ideally suit the high-conductor coin hunting niche, and potentially be useful in salt-water. The Deus2 can be seen to vary its MF frequency selections depending on mode, for example "Deep HC" uses a lower frequency mix.
So it's not unreasonable for Mandingo's freq blend to be variable - that alone is sufficient to warrant badging it "Multi-IQ+".

However, there is the X-Y display showing on the LCD screen. If this is anything like the FE/CO FBS system, it requires one l..o..n..g transmit cycle in its waveform to perform a 'pseudo-PI' transmission. This is not possible with the Eqx's Multi-IQ waveform, there's simply too many high-freq signals in it.
One possibility is they have created a mash-up of FBS and Multi-IQ. If the above waveform lasting 385 microsecs was alternated with a single cycle of 2.6 kHz, there would then be enough time to do the Pseudo-PI, and hence generate the "FE" signal of the FBS system. FBS uses a single cycle of 3.125kHz, so 2.6kHz is similar enough, and probably slightly better, at allowing this trick.
A down-side of this may be that ther will be a slowing-down of the performance, much like the CTX is slower than the Eqx, due to the main TX waveform only being transmitted half as often. So it may be an option: if you want 'CTX-style', you get slower response, if you choose 'Eqx-style', you get the speed.
 

True.  Which is why I think Miralax is more of an Equinox on a very mild dose of steroids than even a CTX light.  We'll see once the hype machine calms down and we get real world user results months from now, as to how much speed it sacrifices for the "deep TID accuracy" modes, but I also suspect that the power increase may be feeding some sort of signal processing to regain response (vs. CTX) and to feed the rudimentary 2D display graphics beast. 

[steveg]

1 hour ago, PimentoUK said:

All this talk of "burning out an Eqx coil" is just a steaming pile of horse manure. Please stop it.
 

Pimento -- I, and I would assume others, don't understand the issue here, and you didn't do anything to explain WHAT the issue is.  So, just saying "stop it" is of little use.  You and Chase clearly see some issue in this discussion.  I don't, and so a bit of explaining would have helped...

Anyway...

 

Quote

A more pertinent question is:
What is Mandingo doing that the Eqx didn't do ?
Here's the Equinox transmitted signal:
"The Equinox transmits a complex square-edged waveform, that repeats every 385 microseconds. In that waveform are 15 cycles of 39kHz, 7 cycles of 18.2kHz and 3 cycles of 7.8kHz. That is how the operating freqs are related to each other : 7.8k : 18.2k : 39k are ratios of 3 : 7 : 15."

This, as it stands is pretty good for: general detecting; low-conductor targeted detecting ( gold jewellery / ancient coins ); nugget hunting. The obvious weaker area is the lack of lower operating frequencies, which should ideally suit the high-conductor coin hunting niche, and potentially be useful in salt-water. The Deus2 can be seen to vary its MF frequency selections depending on mode, for example "Deep HC" uses a lower frequency mix.
So it's not unreasonable for Mandingo's freq blend to be variable - that alone is sufficient to warrant badging it "Multi-IQ+".

However, there is the X-Y display showing on the LCD screen. If this is anything like the FE/CO FBS system, it requires one l..o..n..g transmit cycle in its waveform to perform a 'pseudo-PI' transmission. This is not possible with the Eqx's Multi-IQ waveform, there's simply too many high-freq signals in it.
One possibility is they have created a mash-up of FBS and Multi-IQ. If the above waveform lasting 385 microsecs was alternated with a single cycle of 2.6 kHz, there would then be enough time to do the Pseudo-PI, and hence generate the "FE" signal of the FBS system. FBS uses a single cycle of 3.125kHz, so 2.6kHz is similar enough, and probably slightly better, at allowing this trick.
A down-side of this may be that ther will be a slowing-down of the performance, much like the CTX is slower than the Eqx, due to the main TX waveform only being transmitted half as often. So it may be an option: if you want 'CTX-style', you get slower response, if you choose 'Eqx-style', you get the speed.

Can you talk a little more about this "pseudo-PI" transmission that you say FBS uses, and how that allows the generation of an "FE" signal?  I find this fascinating, but don't have enough knowledge to entirely follow.  But, this "trick" of which you speak sounds quite fascinating and I'd like to understand better.

So, are you saying that there could be two DIFFERENT transmissions going on -- an "EQX-like" waveform, and then an "FBS-like" waveform, such that Manticore, in a way, actually COULD be a sort of blend of both FBS and Multi-IQ (just as the "Manticore" name would imply -- i.e. the mythical "multi-species" creature)?

Steve

[schoolofhardNox]

5 hours ago, vive equinox said:

I been doing this , this is the response : 

" Hello,

Thank you for your enquiry about the MANTICORE backlight.
At this stage there is minimal information available for the MANTICORE as it is still in it's final engineering stages.
I haven't had a chance to use one of these myself at this point but from what I have seen via the online videos the light on the detector is switched on/off by the button on the side of the control pod. 
The adjustments (1-10) for the back light setting will be changed through the on-screen menu. "

 

That statement comes directly from MInelab??? Or is it from a dealer? If that's directly from Minelab, I would be shocked that they could not answer that question. In any event, I hope you can get your answer.

[PimentoUK]

'Burnt coil' first:

The power put into a detectors coil is VERY small, 10's of milliwatts, enough to light an LED, for example the little red 'standby' light on your TV. So even if this power were increased +50%, it would still be a pathetic amount of power. Nothing will burn, burst into a mass of flaming plastic and copper, explode etc. So any suggestion that Mandingo is capable of such havoc is baloney, and is likely a failed attempt at 'hype'.

Only two things of relevance come from "+50% more power":

A potential improvement in EMI handling. If there's 23% more voltage on the TX coil, there's +23% more return signal from the target and the ground .... but the EMI signal remains the same. Hence a modest improvement in signal-to-noise ratio, which is useful.

Increased current drain on the battery pack. However ... the Eqx draws about 420 mA, from a single Li cell, say 3.8V, hence 1.6 Watts. Of which less than 0.2W [my estimate] is spent driving the coil , the rest is microprocessor / ADC / signal amplifiers / LCD screen/ audio amplifier / wireless TX/RX etc etc. So the new machine will be similar; most power is the inner workings, the 'enhanced' coil power is not a major contributor.

[PimentoUK]

Re: the Pseudo-PI technique used on FBS machines, this thread should explain:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13202-ctx-4040-or-equinox-1000-or-both/?do=findComment&comment=133265

 

[Steve Herschbach]

The new Minelab Manticore goes deeper than any metal detector ever created. It does so by implementing new micro fusion core batteries, providing it with almost unlimited detection power. Everyone knows that all you need to do to make a detector go deeper is hook up a bigger battery.

The power is not just power, it’s a new form of power, an interleaving of frequencies and amperage the likes of which the world has never seen.* This allows for several improvements in detection depth. First, grass and other organic surface matter is instantly incinerated, turning into fine dust.** This allows the coil to get closer to the ground, which in turn allows deeper items to be detected. A secondary improvement can be had as the roots, earthworms, and beetles in the ground vaporize, leaving open spaces in the soil. We recommend that you detect the same area at least twice, carefully compacting the soil as you walk the first time, and then going over it a second time, to take advantage of the extra depth afforded by this new “OrganoElimination” OE Technology (TM pending) effect.

We are proud to include the very first implementation of heat seeking technology for metal detecting in the Manticore. The power induced into the metals under the coil is in direct relation to their conductivity. Silver, with its unique high conductivity, far better than even gold, is heated to near its melting point.*** By including heat sensors in the coil, this heat signature can be included in the processing algorithms to deliver the best discrimination results the world has ever seen. The HD Heat Discrimination (TM Pending) processing will take your detecting results to a whole new level, eliminating 98.976594% of trash targets.

Manticore. The detector that obsoletes the detectors that previously obsoleted other detectors. Get yours today!

* Near field power effects may result in sterility. Use proper lead shielding over your delicate parts. Any rumors of cancer inducing side effects have been wildly exaggerated, and we estimate less than 15% of users will experience any carcinogenic effects. Any attempt to hook up coils to the detector that are not designed for it will likely result in said coil exploding. Flash injuries, and puncture wounds from flying shrapnel should be expected, and so we highly recommend using only compatible coils.

** The risk of second or third degree burns is considerable. A high quality fire suit and mask are recommended, such as those employed in metal refining. The protective lead lining previously mentioned can be incorporated into this suit for your ease of use and comfort. Due to high dust levels, high quality breathing filter masks are also recommended. See our new line of protective detector clothing for further details.

*** Be aware that items when excavated can produce second or third degree burns on contact. Use proper heat resistant gloves. We recommend metal refining gloves, but welders gloves are a suitable replacement if care is used.

Recommended minimum detecting protective suit. Only use suits guaranteed to include no conductive metal, as this may interfere with you metal detectors ability to work properly.

[steveg]

1 hour ago, PimentoUK said:

'Burnt coil' first:

The power put into a detectors coil is VERY small, 10's of milliwatts, enough to light an LED, for example the little red 'standby' light on your TV. So even if this power were increased +50%, it would still be a pathetic amount of power. Nothing will burn, burst into a mass of flaming plastic and copper, explode etc. So any suggestion that Mandingo is capable of such havoc is baloney, and is likely a failed attempt at 'hype'.

Only two things of relevance come from "+50% more power":

A potential improvement in EMI handling. If there's 23% more voltage on the TX coil, there's +23% more return signal from the target and the ground .... but the EMI signal remains the same. Hence a modest improvement in signal-to-noise ratio, which is useful.

Increased current drain on the battery pack. However ... the Eqx draws about 420 mA, from a single Li cell, say 3.8V, hence 1.6 Watts. Of which less than 0.2W [my estimate] is spent driving the coil , the rest is microprocessor / ADC / signal amplifiers / LCD screen/ audio amplifier / wireless TX/RX etc etc. So the new machine will be similar; most power is the inner workings, the 'enhanced' coil power is not a major contributor.

Thanks for this further explanation, Pimento.  

I am surprised to hear how little power runs to a detector coil.  I would have thought that it would take much more power than that, to enable the coil to transmit a signal into the ground that is "strong" enough such that it is capable of not only initiating an electrical current in a target buried in the ground, but also one that is then discernible by the receive side of the coil.  I had no idea we were dealing with such small wattage (or apparently, milliwattage, in this case).

Steve

[steveg]

1 hour ago, PimentoUK said:

Re: the Pseudo-PI technique used on FBS machines, this thread should explain:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13202-ctx-4040-or-equinox-1000-or-both/?do=findComment&comment=133265
 

Thanks, Pimento.  Very much appreciated! I'll dig into that info once again.  It's been a couple of years...

THANKS!

Steve

[TedinVT]

Probably more important than ever to turn your cell phone off when detecting to prevent it from exploding into a massive fireball.

[wltdwiz]

too funny steve 🤣