Manticore In Iron (nail Beds)

[Chase Goldman]

4 minutes ago, steveg said:

There is SO MUCH I could say here.  I really want to do an interactive YouTube livestream...

Your middle paragraph above is PARTIALLY true, but not entirely...

I need to ponder how to collect my thoughts and communicate them.  

Is doing a YouTube livestream (if you have a channel already) a hard thing to set up/accomplish?

Steve

I don't have expertise on that.  Perhaps setting up a live, interactive, scheduled zoom or teams session for DP members to participate in would be a good option.  Anyone else who has any ideas along these lines, please feel free to chime in.

[Digalicious]

Steve,

Your paragraphs explaining that you don't know how to say things succinctly, was very succinct 🙂 

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

If upper ferrous limits are working as intended by the design and are appropriately adjusted, then, as described in the manual, nails should also sound off (not just display) as ferrous even if their TIDs reside in the non-ferrous region.  It appears that nails are really showing up near the centerline, this means you have to set really aggressive upper ferrous limit settings giving you a very narrow margin of error such that you can start to get false ferrous indications for non-ferrous targets that are showing up slightly off above the center line.

I've yet to see anyone customize the ferrous limits.  The case you make may well be the best case solution, but I'm reproducing a page from the manual:

Note the graphics in the right column under point 4., as well as the instructions there.  It appears both the starting points and widths (5 bins?) in each of the upper and lower ferrous limit sections as well as their amplitudes/magnitudes can be adjusted.  How much will this help ID'ing falsing iron?  I don't know.  Does anyone yet know?  (That question is rhetorical, BTW.)

Maybe I'll swing down to Oklahoma and get some lessons from Steveg after we both get our units.  He may think he writes long posts but I can hold my own against the best here on that front.  But I promise to zip my lips and listen, at least for the first 15 minutes or so.  😄

Meanwhile I hope Minelab is paying attention.  They made some appropriate software updates for the Equinox 600 & 800.  Let's see that R&D money they brag about continue to be put to good use here, please.

[Chase Goldman]

43 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've yet to see anyone customize the ferrous limits.  The case you make may well be the best case solution, but I'm reproducing a page from the manual

I've had discussions with a Manticore owner and they have indeed adjusted the upper ferrous limits as high as 12 to 14 (the max limit, just short of the centerline, see below) in an attempt to limit nail falsing but some nails are still bleeding through onto the centerline.  Looks like ML needs to further tweak the small ferrous signal processing to move them further away from the the centerline.

[strick]

4 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I don't have expertise on that.  Perhaps setting up a live, interactive, scheduled zoom or teams session for DP members to participate in would be a good option.  Anyone else who has any ideas along these lines, please feel free to chime in.

Table topics is when a bunch of professionals with advanced degrees get in a room and voice their opinions and experiences on certain topics...you can sit for hours discussing something that is totally apparent to some and outer space to others.

Someone threw jet fuel on this thred when I wasn't looking lol. I started using the CTX in 2014 and have countless hours on that machine. If one is familiar with the CTX then they will have a shorter learning curve on the Manticore. The Manticore is also related to the Nox 800 and those that have used the 800 will have a shorter learning curve as well. But I feel the machine is closer to a super sensitive CTX than it is to the Nox. 

That being said it is not a perfect fine tuned machine in most environments as of yet. My feeling is that it could still use some work...I have been posting positive on it since I've had it because it's been working very well for me so far...EXCEPT for today. I hunted two spots..Urban areas with lots of EMI and old dirt with lots of iron and trash...Look at the quarter below with the eagle button and how much it's deteriorated in that soil. I really struggled with the machine today. Even did  factory reset. The problem for me today was not deep iron targets but rather lots of falsing on shallow targets. I honestly don't know if there ever is  place where you could max out the sensitivity on this machine. The highest I've ever been able to run it was on 26-27 and thats pushing it. It gets too chattery if you run it any higher where I live.

This machine is very sensitive to iron and ground conditions. So far I have not had many problems with deep iron it's the shallow falsing that is an annoyance. I have not been running the sensitivity lower than 24 which may be my problem. I manual ground balance frequently. Below is a picture of  iron nail/spike with large head. It was close to 12 inches deep. The TT was pegged all the way to the right and read 99 on the VID and gave clear high tone signals 3/4 the way around the target but did give a audible iron grunt with red line...I knew it was iron but dug it anyways just to prove it to myself... 

i'm out of time...I'll be back...tumbled some finds and a couple surprises. 

strick 

[strick]

 One more thing I will add quickly. I have not found any difficulty judging the size of targets such as tin cans  and low conductor pieces of can slaw in the mid teens etc...I think it’s a little deceiving looking at it on videos as compared to in person actually running it. Also the bottle caps are easy to identify... most wont even give a tone when hunting in disk mode just like the ctx....yeah there are a few stragglers that will read just outside that lower limit zone but if it’s not on the center line it’s most likely a junk target. It’s been great on bottle caps when hunting in parks. Even the steel caps covered with foil are not a problem once you have dug a few. We need more users right now..

strick

[FFX2]

I’ve dug a lot of buttons over the years but have never dug one with markings on the back like that one. Definitely an interesting one, have you figured out how old it is?

Great to hear that the Manticore is closer to a CTX than a Nox!!! 

[FFX2]

6 hours ago, palzynski said:

Not always ...

This Mcore story recalls me a detector from an other brand that I have tested 2 years ago . A similar issue with falsing in the irons ... The issue has never been fixed 

Good vid btw . At least we have now feedbacks from field users , often more reliable than manufacturers or even sellers infos ...

What detector you speak of?

[scoopjohnb]

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Would be great to have details on what he needed to adjust vs. the defaults to make it come alive.

As far as I can recollect,... today is another hunt. The adjustments weren’t making it come alive. It was just letting it speak a language I could understand.

I hate full tones but really like a smooth threshold, nulling on small iron and a single tone with ample depth modulation and sharpness.

Scanning a target from various angles helps me decide dig or not.

The 2 D screen takes a little getting use to, as I’m a CTX guy.

And good old sensitivity adjustments till it sounds off on the targets I wanted it to.

 

And I was at 30% of its sensitivity capability. Still hitting coin sized targets with ample depth. Still picking out 3mm lead shot with ease. All with the 11” coil.

What is really amazing it the machines ability to seperate non-ferrous from ferrous whilst its all is under the same coil influence and the speed at which it does it.

If it’s falsing too much for your liking, you simply have your sensitivity set too high.

It is telling you there is a part of this nail that’s interesting.

But you can be sure that a non ferrous located adjacent to the nail at depth will come through with correct ID.

 

We wanted something better than a Nox,... and we need to accept that and not want to turn into a coin shooting Vanquish or a ring hunting sunday driver slow CTX.

 

We got a Manticore and need to learn how to use the depth/speed/seperation. Let’s talk some more with 50 hours on the counter 🙂

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Would be great to have details on what he needed to adjust vs. the defaults to make it come alive.

 

[palzynski]

10 hours ago, Digalicious said:

Well that's interesting.

Do you know if it wasn't fixed due to the issue being unfixable, the manufacturer unwilling, the manufacturer concluding it wasn't a problem, or something else?

I dont know they ve never communicated on this . Anyway I just need solutions , the pb reasons are secondary for me  ...

Hopefully by the meantime I have found what I was looking for ( the XP D2 ) and I am happy with it , this is the most important ...

But I am always interested by new detectors like the MCore,  and interested by what they offer vs what I am currently using ...