Chase Goldman

Thanks Jeff! Yeah. I love all three of those machines. Deus 2 for the ergonomics/compactness/minimalist/reconfigurable design, killer iron performance, solid beach performance, improved coin shooting over its predecessors, and great all around relic performance in a variety of situations/conditions. If I can take only one detector with me, this is the one, because I can take it with me regardless of whether I'm flying, driving, biking, boating, or hiking to my ultimate detecting destination and it can get the job done when I get there, whatever the situation and conditions might be. Legend for its unmatched killer value, packed features, customer focused and responsive team, great ergonomics and user interface, and promise of an excellent accessory coil selection. I need to give it more love and quietly cheat on the D2 more with it... And finally the 4.5 year old "granddaddy", Equinox, which is still going strong and frankly I think the industry game changer in terms of features and performance for what was at the time, a price point step change. It really set the stage for what was to come and was the catalyst for Deus 2 and Legend. Even though I am spending more time with the new kids on the block, it is still has a few unique tricks up its sleeve and is present in the vehicle when I depart on EVERY metal detecting excursion. And at the end of the day, we are the beneficiaries of this healthy 3-way product competition. Variety is the spice of life and despite the similarities in performance documented by Jeff, one key thing to note from Jeff's controlled adventure is that all three detectors brought their unique advantages to the table when Jeff decided to carpet bomb that patch of ground. If you have the luxury of time, access, and can afford to do it, it never hurts to hit a site with multiple different capable detectors (that you have really taken the time to learn to use to their max capabilities) because regardless of how capable they are in performance, they all also see the ground differently enough such that no one detector is likely to see every keeper buried there.

Me too. That’s how I would have run Nox too (except I run 50 tones because there is no pitch option).

I guess that's my real question. Did Iffy have a true chirping nail or does NM potentially have the IB/IF too high even at the minimal setting. In other words, is it like the Nox where you really can never turn IB off (even when set to "zero") unless you go to single frequency, in which case IB is non functional on the Nox (because it requires multifrequency in order to do its thing). Which leads me to another question I can't answer without the 1.08 update in hand. Is NM's IF functional even when the Legend is in single frequency? (If yes, that would make Nokta's Iron Filter implementation fundamentally different than Minelab's Iron Bias implementation). Can't wait to get my hands on the Legend 1.08 update and try out the new features, might actually make me put down my other detector for a whole outing. 😄

Re read my revised post and I think you will get the gist of my question (sorry trying to revise/edit on the fly and by the time I’m done three people have responded to the original). The fundamental purpose of Iron Bias/Filtering is to suppress ferrous falsing and instead give a more definitive ferrous signal. The trade off is that you could inadvertently mask actual non ferrous targets that are in the proximity of the ferrous target whose falsing is being suppressed if you apply “too much” IB/IF. The way you described Iffy’s demo, the ferrous target never falsed even at minimum IB/IF so IB/IF was providing no apparent benefit while only introducing down side at higher IF settings since it tended to mask the non ferrous target. So my question really was, does IB/IF actually do what it’s supposed to do and suppress falsing? We know it was apparently introducing masking per Iffy’s video. I postulated a test scenario above (wasn’t in the original version of my post) on how one would go about demonstrating the “optimal” setting where falsing was suppressed in common falsing objects at a given site without masking adjacent non-ferrous. My other point is why would a designer think that it would ever make sense to set a non-adjustable filter to the “max” of the corresponding adjustable version of that same filter (i.e., why was IB/IF internally set at a level corresponding to 8 for the adjustable filter for all these months?). Rhetorical question. It is what it is. Just as long as you can now adjust and optimize it to be effective at suppressing falsing with minimal masking risk is all that matters now. HTH

To be clear, Simon, they weren’t saying IB wasn’t needed they were saying an IB adjustment setting wasn’t needed because the IB default was optimal. They did incorporate an Iron Bias filter from the get go, you just couldn’t fine tune it. And, yes, no one should have taken you to task for pointing that out to them. But here’s the more concerning thing… The discussion of the update by Dilek and the Iffy Signals testing described by Jeff above clearly shows the illogic in Nokta’s original stance that no IB/IF adjustment was necessary. Namely, they apparently hard coded the Iron Bias/Iron Filter default to a MAXIMUM level! Not a split the difference/middle of the road value as you would have expected. The default IB/IF setting is 8 (and Dilek clearly stated in the FB update video that this corresponds to the IB/IF filter strength hard coded default setting in in all pre 1.08 firmware versions). That’s really incredible and concerning all at once. As you can see from the Iffy Signals testing, this setting introduces some really unnecessary non-ferrous masking. So OF COURSE the user should be able to dial back IB/IF to trade masking for falsing and vice versa. Jeff, any idea whether Iffy varied the IF stability (ST) parameter setting and if so how varying it affected the masking/falsing at IF levels less than 7. Haven’t seen the Iffy Signals video, but if I just read your written account of the IF testing, and I’m struggling to understand the purpose of setting IF >1 at all if the end user was not experiencing any falsing whatsoever on the nail. Why take the risk of masking any target by setting IB > 1? Again, I haven’t viewed the video, but a more effective and informative test would be to find an iron target that readily falses at minimum IB/IF settings, then increase IB/IF until the target stops falsing. Then run a test where you introduce an adjacent non-ferrous target and then see how far you can run up IB/IF until the

??

Thanks Jeff. Your notes jived with mine except M3 (Item 8 ) was only for Park and Field modes according to Dilek. [Makes sense if you think about it because Beach already has Multi-W for wet salt] Mineralization meter will share the Ferro Check meter graphics, she did not go into detail has to how the user selects between the two different displayed parameters. And in addition to the coils mentioned above, she also mentioned the Legend-compatible integrated wireless BT pinpointer is still in development. These features and fixes really make the Legend whole. They just need to get that 10x5 coil on the street and I might just start leaving the Nox at home (unless looking for small gold).

Thanks but is there a written summary version of the highlights of the latest about the forthcoming update somewhere? Love the personal touch by Dilek, but I really need the bottom line up front bullet points version. Just really don't have the patience for watching 26 minutes of talking about something I can easily read in 1 minute and spend the other 25 minutes swinging my Legend. Lol.

Had the same issue a few years back. Thought DD went under or life happened. He finally responded. I think you nailed it. He may simply be out of town or may be getting slammed with D2 accessory demand. Keep emailing.

Ditto.

There is a practical and necessary reason for providing the single cable. The single charging/update cable for the WS6 was provided because they wired up the 3-Way USB A cable connector dedicated data pin to the mult-pin DIN connector for the remote (you don't wire in multiple split parallel data lines because you want to avoid people attempting to hook up two devices at once during updates, but you can easly and conveniently split power and use multiple connectors for charging). As a result, they needed to provide a separate single USB cable with a B-mini connector with data so you could run data and power to be able to do firmware updates to the WS6. Because you can't/don't split data lines (and because all the connectors looked the same unlike the D2 3-way), the old 3-way B-mini cable for the Deus 1 similarly could be only be used for charging 3 devices at once but couldn't be used at all for updating. Since the DIN connector looks noticeably different on the Deus 2 3-way, they could take advantage of this visually distinctive feature to wire up both data and power to that multi-pin DIN connector for both charging and updating the remote for convenience (avoiding having to provide yet a third dedicated cable for updating the remote) without causing (too much) confusion to the end user. There is no reason you can't use the three-way to charge the WS6, you just can't use it to update the WS6. It's also convenient to have the dedicated cable so you can simultaneously charge 4 devices at once if you also happen to own the MI-6 pinpointer. HTH

Started noticing this more inconsistent pairing behavior after the 0.70/0.71 update. This is a longstanding issue with the MI-6 dating back to the D1 version 4.X (Deus 1 is at 5.21 now). Several Deus 1 software update releases were required to get acceptably stable/reliable connects between the MI-6 and the original Deus 1 platform. Seems the bugaboo is back with the D2. Hopefully XP will address and improve this soon in a future update. It really is annoying that XP has regressed to an extent in this aspect of their newest and most capable detecting platform (D2).

Jeff is 100% correct here. They are all type-B mini connectors (except of course the multipin connector on the 3-way to provide data and charge power to the remote). The two USB type-B minis on the three-way provide charge power only and can be used for charging the WS6, the D2 coils, and the MI-6/4 pinpointers (as well as the forthcoming "dumb" wireless headphone accessories). Since the type-B mini connectors on the 3-way lack a data pin, they cannot be used to update the WS6 and that's where the single cable comes in. You can charge and/or update the WS6 with the single cable (as well as use it to charge any other accessory mentioned above except, of course, the remote which uses the multi-pin connector). But there is also absolutely nothing wrong with using one of the USB Type-B mini connectors on the three-way cable to charge the WS6 as well (that's what I usually do). Agree that the manual could be clearer on this, but frankly this is pretty basic stuff in this day and age. In fact, the type B mini connector is pretty old school and practically obsolete as the Deus detectors and accessories are about the last thing I own that still use it as most other USB powered gadgets I own either use the slightly newer Type-B micro connector which is starting to give way to the more popular and powerful USB Type-C connector. HTH

Erik, that is terrible. As I did with the Equinox, trying to keep track of anecdotal common failures reported with these new detectors, especially under challenging conditions like beach and water hunting. Out of the box coil failures seem to happen and there have been remote controller lockups with the D2 which was addressed with an update. First WS6 failure I've heard of. On the WS6's is it a matter of no longer pairing up with the remote or do they just fail to turn on outright? Do they also no longer take a charge or or provide any visual indication they are charging? Thx.

Naw, I wouldn’t base your decision solely on that, Joe. You know you’re a much better gold magnet than those guys regardless of what you and they are swinging. Just because they aren’t producing with the D2 doesn’t mean in your capable hands you can’t somehow turn the D2 into some magic gold finding wand. As a DMV local and relatively competent relic hunter with the D2, I could trade you general and salt water D2 setup tips in person for some pointers on how this land lubber can be less inept at water detecting. On second thought, who needs you pulling even more gold out of the Chesapeake and who needs me stumbling around in the Bay making a mess of things. Happy Hunting out there!

I could be wrong, but I believe he pulled over 300 coins out of this place last year, so I don't think anyone local is regularly hitting it. Probably years of drops exploited in a few days by Plat last year with about a year's time for replenishment. So it's not going to be as productive as last year except now he's going to hit the water with the Deus 2 and maybe strike some gold.

Yep, the hardware as configured out of the box is not ideal for use of the D2 for water hunting. When you have a detector that is versatile vs. single purpose, something is going to be suboptimized. As Carolina said (and uses), similar to Nox, a 3rd party shaft system purpose built for water hunting should be acquired and should solve the issue. XP focused on salt performance for D2 but apparently only addressed minor hardware tweaks as a nod to water hunting (clip on antenna, lanyard strap attachment point) yet retained the same land-hunter focused shaft/stem system as D1 without modification. Off center coil attachment point is another miss for water hunting (though Tarsacci suffers the same issue), so yeah, add that to the list. At least we're starting to see results posted consistent with decent salt performance, something you can't fix with third party hardware band aids.

Congrats, Eric. Hope that starts a waterborne gold rush for you.

It’s actually two tone if you are using disc with iron volume, the iron will register with a lower tone. Yes you are recovering all non ferrous but you can characterize some attributes of the target (e.g., target footprint) based on the pitch tone width/duration. It’s pretty effective. Not dissimilar to the Excal which is a pure tone machine.

I'm PCM pitch myself, but definitely pitch tones on the beach all the way with D2. Thought I might be switching over to Full Tones occasionally to interrogate for aluminum, but frankly, saw no need to do that. Just scooped it and moved on. Pitch gives you a sense of depth and footprint for the target you are about to scoop (or not). So Beach Sensitive Pitch is my go to on dry, wet salt, and ocean surf.

Thanks, that's a passable workaround, but the processing and sensitivity in the disc modes even at -6.4 disc is still not the same as Goldfield (you can see that when comparing that setup with Gold Field in the Deus 1 on micro mid conductive targets). Also, beside the loss of the "two tone" ferrous/non-ferrous audio you get with IAR, you also lose the Gold Field/ Relic threshold functionality doing it that way. Mono Gold Field should eventually be provided.

Simon, you just had to use the phrase "sniffed out", didn't you.

Definitely old. Looks like mid-to-early 1800’s based on the classic fiddle handle design. Clean it up and look for a maker’s mark on the underside of the handle (are you sure it is not silver or silver plate?). From there you can google the name and get an idea of when and where the silversmith or metal craftsman plied his trade.

Unless the seller is “harvesting” coils from boxed full units, the inventory of individual replacement coils is practically zero across the board based on anecdotal information provided by dealers I know. Seems XP initially focused on producing full detector units rather than individual spare replacement parts, at least for the coils. So if the seller agrees to a coil swap, be sure to ask a lot of questions and make sure he goes on record as having a replacement coil in hand that he can immediately ship out so you are not on a months long wait for a replacement as Jeff stated. A wholesale detector swap may end up being your best bet if he admits not having an on-hand coil inventory. GL and hope your seller comes through for you.

Dave, you mean concentric/coaxial, right? Coil manufacturers typically make mono coils for Pulse Induction detectors because they can be designed to share a single transmit and receive winding because they are pulsing the ground. Induction balance VLF detectors which use a continuous transmit waveform, typically use dual winding (transmit and receive) coils wound in either a concentric/coaxial configuration or as the more common (now) back-to-back overlapping D (i.e. Double-D) configuration. Not going to debate the particular merits of DD vs. Concentric with you, but just wanted to get that clarified. FWIW - I do keep a couple of classic detectors around (MXT/F75) because they remain compatible with concentric/coaxial coils as they do have some limited advantages vs. DD’s but since I primarily detect mineralized ground and because signal processing has significantly improved of late, the magnitude of those advantages have diminished to the point that those detectors rarely see the light of day anymore even with their concentric coils. Since, XP did not see fit to mention a coil form factor they already make for the Deus 1 (10x5) as even a down the road option for D2 and they have never made a concentric for a Deus, it’s unlikely we’ll see a concentric for the D2 (the 10x5 is a more likely eventual development). So if you need the extra mm’s of depth and swing coverage afforded by the 11x13, then that’s your only choice. I get it. However, recommend upgrading to a stiffer stem and lower shaft system as that coil seems to overstress the stock shaft and stem, particularly if you have to extend it for height. GL