Monte

You can go to the ahrps.org site here: https://www.ahrps.org/forums/read.php?2,7264,7296#msg-7296 I have posted photos of my back-up or second-use Nokta FORS CoRe (formerly Steve H.'s unit) and back-up FORS Relic that show the 'Edge Red' and 'Edge Blue' powder-coated colors I had them done, and the stolen CoRe and Relic's will look like these. So if my hand isn't on the operating grip-end then they are likely my stolen detectors as I don't believe anyone else is as attached to their Nokta devices to customize them as I have done. Let me know if spotted. Thanks! Monte

Steve H., this has been an interesting read. I have George & Carl's book in my personal library and have enjoyed everyone's comments in this forum read. I've owned several Fisher CZ's, four White's DFX's, a half-dozen Minelab BBS and another half-dozen FBS models, and White's Vision, V3, V3i and VX3 units from White's. There were things I liked about them, but many things I didn't care for in the way of 'simplicity,' 'function,' packaging/balance and especially in field performance at most of the iron littered sites I hunt. I have hunted several very challenging wet salt environments side-by-side with some friends who were/are very devoted BBS and FBS users and never was out-performed when we compared signals on located targets. And on dry sand/dry land hunting I enjoy reading about former models, current models, and even the pending Minelab Equinox ... but I haven't found anything in the way of field use or write-up about what is coming that sways me into wanting to use a simultaneous multi-frequency detector over my stable of excellent single frequency models. All of my Regular-Use units, with the exception of the Nokta Impact, provide exceptional performance at 10 kHz, 12 kHz or 14,5 kHz from Tesoro, or my Nokta's at 15 kHz, 19 kHz and the selectable-frequency Impacts that offer 14 kHz and 20 kHz for most sites I work, and the option to put 5 kHz to work as desired where appropriate. My personal preference is for selectable frequency models, like my two Impacts, over any of the multi-frequency operation detector designs. There are a lot of choices on the market today to give anyone the options they might prefer, and I'm quite comfortable with the selections I have made. Monte

Don, I'm not Steve, and I haven't really put much time in with the XP Dēus other than some simple side-by-side comparisons In have done with Dēus owners. However, I have also come across four avid detector operators who own two to five different detectors, one being the XP Dēus. Of them, one has decided to hang onto the Dēus for a while and work it more as he learns his newer detectors, but he is favoring his Teknetics T2 Classic w/5" DD in trashier sites, and that has taken a 2nd place position to his new Nokta Impact. The Impact is his current favorite detector and the Makro Racer 2 and Dēus are sort of a second pick now and then. One of the other three is keeping his Dēus as a 'back-up for friends to use. The other to? They sold off their Dēus' because they preferred their newer detectors. Why? When I asked they said they didn't care for the battery charging system; didn’t like the audio sound; wanted to have a smaller coil option; and felt the unit was kind of ‘busy’ and not so simple and straight forward. They both have a Nokta Impact, and one also has a Makro Racer 2 and the other a Nokta FORS Relic. They are keeping all of their Nokta and Makro detectors and search coil assortment. All four of them are Relic Hunters, mainly working old western USA sites primarily in a search for older era coins, trade tokens, and other small artifacts of interest. About 85% of the locations they hunt are old RR oriented town sites that abound in dense iron contamination. A couple of then also engage in Coin & Jewelry Hunting in typical urban areas and have, or have had, one or more of the Minelab FBS models to include Explorer II’s, E-Trac and CTX-3030. They like them for more open, sparse target sites with well spaced trash for hunting older higher-conductive coins (mainly silver) that might be at mid-to-deeper depths. They like other detectors for places where gold jewelry is most likely to be encountered. Since they hunt iron littered sites they tried the new 6” Minelab coil and were left unimpressed when their Nokta FORS CoRe, FORS Relic and Racer 2 models all easily out-performed them using just about any smaller-to-standard coil available for them. I tried three Minelab’s with the 6” coil and I was very unimpressed with the performance in very dense iron nail littered sites. I have owned over a half-dozen Minelab FBS models and I can appreciate them for their strengths, but for me, my health limitations, and the vast number of older sites I prefer to hunt, I want and need top-end performance in a dense iron debris situation. Very dense, and that calls for a detector to unmask fully or partially exposed coins, tokens, metal buttons and insignia, and other desired keepers while handling a dense iron challenge. I've been a very Avid Detectorist for over 52 years now and my Regular-Use Detector arsenal includes three (3) Nokta Relic devices, each with a different search coil mounted, and I can recommend them highly. Some iron targets can produce high-reading numeric VDI read-outs, but that can happen with almost any detector, with rusty tin and similar sheet-iron objects being the biggest offenders. But it is also a matter of using and learning the detectors to know them better. Most of my hunting (95% or better) is with a low Disc. setting where I hear iron nails and most ferrous targets. I usually use the Iron Audio Volume control and keep it set low, at '2' which still lets me hear a low-tone audio response just before, just after or both when I sweep my coil over low-reading iron junk. Use of Double-D search coils does make it more difficult to deal with iron, but using a proper slow and methodical sweep I can audibly classify iron-based metal targets over 95% of the time. That is in a wide-range of mineralized ground conditions. The CTX-3030 is a good detector for some people and some types of hunting locations, especially for many urban sites where you are dealing with grassy sites that do not have a lot of iron debris and where trash is more spaced from desired targets which allows less good-target masking. Question: Where is 'here?' If you provide a general description of where you live it might help let readers associate the typical ground mineral environment you generally deal with. Good, 'functional' TID can be very important and useful, and I'll credit many FBS Minelab models for producing somewhat better-than-average TID info on mid-depth and deeper targets than most of the competition with comparable sized search coils. But not always better, and yes, ground mineral make-up can have a lot to do with it. As for you reference to the Fisher brand, again I will say it depends upon the specific models, coils used and ground mineral make-up. I have had a few F75's and was never impressed with the TID where I usually hunt, which is in Oregon, Eastern and Western, as well as Utah and Nevada. I prefer the Teknetics T2 to the Fisher F75, and they both operate at 13 kHz and can use similar search coils, but the T2 'Classic' and small 5" DD coil can provide me the best, tightest TID response. The 'standard' 11" BiAxial (Double-D) has not locked-on very well for me on any FTP product I have owned and used. Time and again, when on detecting outings with friends and family I have been asked to compare a target response on something they have located and repot the audio and visual TID I get. ALL of my Nokta detectors have been very reliable and lock-on quite well to targets at almost all depth ranges. They are in my arsenal because they do that and provide other performance that out-classed the detectors I owned at the time or compared them with afield. The XP seems to work fine and be a 'fit' for some users, and the Minelab CTX-3030 finds favor with others. Some have one of each because they can complement each other with different in-the-field performance. I'm simply adding my 2¢ here that it sure wouldn't hurt to try a different and newer brand and model that brings us solid, well engineered design, in a well-balanced physical package, and offers a nice range of search coils. Monte

Steve H., Oregon Gregg's invite to visit us here in Eastern Oregon would definitely be an invitation to hunt some very ghost towns that present a lot of dense ferrous debris in many parts of them that can challenge anyone, not to mention challenge any detector/coil combination they pick to use. There are three old-structure free gold mining ghost town sites I can visit on a 97 mile round trip from my driveway here in Vale, Oregon. We have seen one very impressive thumb-size gold specimen (quartz and gold with an ample percentage of gold) that a fellow found at one of the locations back in I believe the very late '80s or early '90s with a 6.59 kHz White's model, but I am pretty certain these were all hard digging locations to work out any gold. Most people I have seen searching the largest of them were all using a Minelab PI or ZED. So along with having a bit of fun 'Relic Hunting' these old town sites for older era coins, trade tokens and other interesting small artifacts, you could also put your very trained raw gold hunting skills to-the-test. Since it is mid-September now, and with most 'weather guessers' predicting another winter of heavy snow and very cold temperatures, we might only have a month or so left this years before the old townsites get whitened and that will mean a wait until about late March to mid-April of next year before they will be huntable. Plenty of time for you to get bored with the same-pld looks of your same-old sites and want to work in a springtime adventure. You just never n=know what you might find unless you look with the right equipment and skills/techniques. By the way, the evaluation Nokta FORS CoRe I bought from you early-on is still performing well as the #2 CoRe in my Regular-Use Detector Team. I keep the small 'OOR' on my original CoRe and just swapped the stock coil to mount Gregg's new open-frame 5X9½ DD from Nokta to check it out at an old CCC and Japanese Internment Camp that is also close to us, and that first venture out with it I nabbed two silver Mercury Dimes at about 6"-7" that sounded very good and gave a very worthy visual TID as well. As all good Nokta detectors do it performs excellent, and the only change I made was to have the middle and upper gold or black rods of both of my FORS CoRe devices stripped and powder coated an 'Edge Red' to come close to the color scheme of the side decal coloring. My three FORS Relic models I had stripped and powder coated an 'Edge Blue' to complement the side decal coloring Nokta used for the Relic model. Arm cups are the matte black and it makes these units stand out in a crowd of detectors. My two Nokta Impact's, however, are staying their standard color and distinctive physical design as they draw enough attention just as they are, and all of my Team wear different coils and are ready to do service at any site I encounter. So, if you ever happen to adventure up this way for a couple/few days of fun and are only stuck with a Minelab or other brand model that isn't a good fit for these challenging sites, I am sure there's a loaner you could use. Of course all you would need for non-nugget hunting would be your Impact with a 5" DD or the new 7" Concentric coil. Either coil teams up to work just fine in the dense debris sites. I guess I'll head off to Gregg's today and take his loaner coil back to him. As for me, all I need to get are a 5X9½ FC24 for a CoRe and FR24 for one of my Relic devices and I will have a more versatile detector/coil set-up ready-to-go. Until your travels bring you north to Eastern Oregon, I wish you the best of success in your searches as we progress through what might be a brief Fall and the pending Winter ahead. Monte

Not really, Tom. In addition to Tesoro's I had along, I used all three Nokta models I rely on, the Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe. They don't have a preset 'mode' or 'program' like some makes and models, such as 'Beach,' Coin,' Relic,' etc. that have pre-configured Discrimination or rejection segments. Instead, these three models provide open, programmable modes such as 'GEN' or All Metal, 'COG' which is a Conductive Ground or Beach mode, and 'Di2' or 'Di3' which are simply Discriminate 2-Tone or Disc. 3-Tone modes. In addition the FORS Relic has 'SWT' for Swift and 'DEP' for Deep modes. The Impact has Deep and seven additional search modes, but all of them let the operator make adjustments on the fly to all their settings, plus any settings can be Saved as desired. The main settings I have in ALL of my programmed detectors at turn-on are similar. That is the Sensitivity, or Gain, is close to maximum, and the Discrimination is set to just barely accept nails. That is because most of my hunting sites are iron infested ghost towns, homesteads, stage stops or any sort of old site of human activity. Iron nails are quite common at virtually all of them and 90% of the time I like to hear the presence of iron so I can methodically work the coil around it to unmask keepers. The other 10% of the time I might be really tired of abundant nails, or I am just doing some quick cherry-picking and I increase the Disc. level to just barely reject iron nails. That is also a setting I use when evaluating ANY make or model in order to see how their performance compares with most Tesoro models on my Nail Board Performance Test. I do have a Vaquero and Mojave which have broader Disc. adjustment ranges that adjust low enough to accept nails, which I can then reject if desired. But I compare ALL detectors to my other Tesoro models that have the ED-120 Disc. acceptance range and, at their minimum setting, nails and most iron are rejected. So all my Nokta units I demonstrated didn't really have any "adjustments made specifically" for Nail Board demonstration, they are just set to function as they would any other time I put them to use. For example, the Gain on all three units in Di3 is at '99' and in the GEN or Di2 modes it is '95.' The Disc. is set to just barely accept nails, so the ONLY changes I made from turn-on operation were to increase the Disc. to the numeric read-out where nails were just barely rejected. The FORS CoRe and FORS Relic have pre-designed Audio Tones for the Low Iron Audio and a VCO enhanced High-Tone in every mode except Di3, and those are a set Low Iron Tone, a pleasant and clear Mid-Tone, and an even more distinguishable High-Tone. I hear many detectors with a factory engineered audio tone that just isn't as pleasant or distinctive to me as I would like. The Nokta Impact, like their sister company's Makro Racer 2, features Audio Tone Adjustment and that let me adjust the audio Tone (the Pitch or Audio Frequency) to a level that is best for my impaired hearing, and that provides a very clear alert of a target in that conductivity range. Using any multi-tone search mode, be it 3-Tone, 4-Tone, 7-Tone, 8-Tone or even 85-Tone (which would be Di99 on the Impact) can result in a muddy or blended tone caused by the sample target, such as a coin, and the interference and response from the four adjacent nails. That's why when I am searching most sites where only nails are the primary ferrous object I deal with, I favor any of the 2-Tone modes, where the fixed, non-VCO lower Iron Audio Tone can be heard, and the higher-conductive target sort of 'jumps out at you' with a VCO enhanced High Tone that you can't ignore. So, no, my Nokta's didn't have any 'specific' settings made that would favor the performance just in that test. They were basic settings at high gain and they work well. I will say that I was pleased to see the White's MX Sport pass my NBPT which means getting a minimum of 6-out-of-8 hits. I personally want a detector and coil in-hand that gives me no less than 7, and preferably 8-out-of-8 on that test. While the MX Sport gave digable hits, I also have to say that the Audio Tone, for me, wasn't all that remarkable. It was almost like a muddied-up Iron Audio, at least to me. If those Audio Tones are adjustable on the MX Sport then I might find it more appealing when searching for a waterproof detector. It was great meeting you in Idaho, and I really enjoyed the video you made. Too bad White's didn't make their own 7" DD search coil for the MX Sport, and I really think they missed the boat by not using their 6½" Concentric coil. As well as the 950 performed, can you imagine field performance if they worked up the 5.3 Eclipse (6½" diameter) Concentric coil for the MX Sport! Monte

Steve, he video worked fine for me and No, I am NOT a Facebook member.

Coin Hunting as well as Coin & Jewelry Hunting as well as Relic Hunting can involve searches for targets spanning a wide range of conductivities. Some might be more responsive to a higher or lower operating frequency, but if we want to find all the potentially desirable targets that could range from a very low-conductive gold chain or baby's ring or a US $1 or $2½ coin or common 5¢ 'nickel' on up through some interesting conducive coinage to the larger to smaller 90% silver dollars to silver half-dimes, then it might be logical to select a very good 'universal-range' operating frequency. The VLF range is from 1 kHz to 30 kHz and you sectioned off two subjective categories of 6-10 kHz and 13-15 kHz. I can tell you that through the years I have seen and handled models, or prototypes of models, that operated at either end of the VLF range and both showed very weak points when it came to all-purpose versatility ... considering only the operating frequency at this point. By the latter '70s I found that I was quite comfortable with several detector models, and my personal interest in finding a very good, general-purpose operating frequency continued throughout the next 15-20 years. The more I bought, sold and traded to get all sorts of makes and models working at different frequencies, I would use them afield and put in ample time ... then sit back and think through how they worked, what their strengths and weaknesses were, and compare them with other units I had used or currently owned. I would make changes along the way to my personal-use detector battery so that I retained the detectors that worked the best for me, handled various challenges well, and produced desired in-the-field results. In short, I kept the best of the best when it came to performance. Now, I am more of a very devoted detectorist and use them a lot of over 52 years now, but I am not the schooled and educated design engineer. Therefore, I do read a lot, when it is available, from detector engineers who I have come to respect because sometimes, just maybe they have something to say that makes a lot of sense. One such notable character is George Payne, credited with designing the first VLF ground cancelling hobby-based detector. Also the first VLF-Disc. or ground-cancelling motion-based discriminating detector. He brought us the first visual Target ID detector design, soon adding Tone ID to the circuitry. After the demise of the original Teknetics/Bounty Hunter company he teamed up with other former industry figures and started Discovery Electronics. About that time George did an excellent write-up regarding conductivities and frequencies in an explanation of how he decided on an "optimum frequency" for designing the Discovery Treasure Baron. What was that optimum frequency? It was 12.5 kHz. I found that quite interesting because while I had a model or two that operated at a lower or higher frequency range, usually for specialty applications, I had already long settled on an established personal detector battery that operated from 10 kHz to 15 kHz ... all models that were ± 2.5 kHz of George's perceived 'optimum' general purpose operating frequency. Since '83 the vast majority of all my coins, be it modern 'flash money' or the early era coinage I prefer to find, has come my way using detectors that operate from 10 kHz to 15 kHz. My all-time favorite Utah ghost town kicked out hundreds of coins that I filled four binders of 2X2 carded oldies ... using my favorite detectors in that frequency range. Today, my Regular-Use Detector Battery is comprised of 2 Nokta Impacts (and I mainly use the default 14 kHz), 2 Nokta Relic's (19 kHz and used for select, challenging Relic Hunting sites), 2 Nokta CoRe's (another great general-purpose device at 15 kHz), and four favorite Tesoro's: a Bandido II µMAX, Silver Sabre µMAX, Mojave and Vaquero (all operating at 10 kHz, 12 kHz or 14.5 kHz) and I don't feel a need for any regular-use detectors of a different frequency extreme from these. Those early days in this wonderful 'hobby' from '65 thru the '70s are sadly gone, but very memorable when I reflect back on 60K-70k coins a year, but when not working overtime or extra work I got into the ± 120K range a year. When I made a shift to more Relic Hunting of older sites during the '75-'83 period I was still singling out favorite detector models and most were in the 10 kHz to 15 kHz range and I continue this favored preference today. Models in this range include most general use Tesoro's, the Teknetics T2 and Fisher F75 at 13 kHz, White's MXT Pro, M6 and MX5 at about 14 kHz, the Makro Racer and Racer 2 at 14 kHz, and as mentioned the Nokta FORS CoRe which captured my attention two-and-a-half years ago operating at 15 kHz. Other than my analog-based Tesoro's, my more digitally-based circuitry CoRe has been my primary-use unit complemented by the Relic for certain touch applications in very iron littered sites. Today, they still get a big share of use when I am out hunting, but the new Nokta Impact has become my first-grabbed TID model at most sites. The Impact has a default start-up at 14 kHz yet allows the operator to make on-the-fly frequency changes to 5 kHz or 20 kHz, and I do that on occasion as needed/desired. But most of the time I have ample mode and settings controlled to gain me great all-around performance at that 'all-purpose' 14 kHz frequency. Sorry to ramble on about the frequency part of your question, but my own field work and selection process seems to be in agreement with a frequency choice by one of the most notable detector engineers we have had, and I am quite comfortable with the array of makes and models I carry with me and rely on daily. But making a detector selection calls for more than just picking an operating frequency. As Steve H. mentioned, there are a number of other variables we have to consider. The ground mineral make-up; presence of masking trash to deal with; the size and type of search coil(s) we use for different site conditions; and the differences in how each make and model detector is engineered to handle filtering unwanted targets and the processing and recovery speed they provide. I feel one big mistake we can make is trying to be too selective and settle on owning only one single detector and expect it to provide us with exceptional performance in all circumstances. Since the early '70s I learned there was no such thing as a 'perfect' detector and I have maintained a regular set-up of 2 to 4 detectors minimum that can complement each other to best provide needed performance. So my suggestion is to narrow your detector search to models that fall within the 10 kHz to 15 kHz range, then check out as many as you possibly can. I am sure you will find two or thee that will impress you and that can be the start of how you establish your own new detector arsenal. Monte

From http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/3331-how-low-will-they-go/?do=findComment&comment=37171 Tom, Unfortunately I am out detecting a lot, or when home I'll be on two or three other Forums and don't monitor Steve H.'s site as much as I guess I should. Therefore, I haven't kept up with many of your posts, but this one left me wondering a bit. You list yourself as being "White's Media Guy" but let me ask this. How long have you been with White's, and anything other than just doing 'media' work? How long have you been metal detecting? What types of detecting do you prefer to do the most (Coin & Jewelry Hunt, Beach Hunt, Relic Hunt, Electronic Prospecting, etc.)? Have you been involved in the metal detecting industry for long, or at all, before going to work at White's? tboykin: I think it's a matter of finances for most companies. As volume in sales drops, they have to lower the price to keep the bottom line looking good. ... Sometimes a manufacturer drops a price in order to be competitive in the market. One example would be the Nokta FORS CoRe that had a price reduction about two years ago. It wasn't to "keep the bottom line looking good" but a readjustment of the MSRP of a newer and very competitive model on the market. FTP has offered the basic Teknetics T2 'Classic' at a much lower price now for about two years, and recently offered a reduced-price Fisher F75. I don't think that "it's a matter of finances" with them, either, as these were models that started in the market in 2006, I believe, with the T2 and later the F75. Sales have been just fine, so I think the 'price drops' were because [1] they need to be competitive on the market and [2] they just might be planning on newer models soon to replace the position these models held. tboykin: This happens when companies don't bring new products to market or constantly release "rehashes" of old tech...."Rehashes" you say, because nothing new was brought to market? Would that be anything like the essentially same 6000 Pro XL being unchanged but renamed the XL Pro? How about the Classic IDX being renamed the IDX Pro? The 'Spectrum XLT' relabeled the XLT e-series? Introducing the Prizm series, which were poor sellers, so the color was changed to burgundy and the name of these same detectors was changed to Coinmaster? The MXT Pro was a nice improvement of the original MXT, but less than four years ago it was 'renamed.' or 'rehashed,' the MXT 'ALL' Pro. There were no circuitry or packaging changes, other than an 'All' sticker added to the side decals, and a move from the 950 Concentric coil to the 10" D2 DD coil that had a history of coil failures and/or poor performance. Seems like there has been a lot of 'rehashes' over the past seventeen years or so do in Sweet Home. tboykin: The great thing about this is that as newer companies advance technology, the dinosaur brands will have to keep up. Or they will die. Just dropping the price isn't going to be enough to keep things afloat - you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before.... "New Companies" would include Makro Detector, Nokta Detectors, XP Detectors who all have newer models the past several years that are very proven and well tested performers. there is a pretty fair amount of "newer advanced technology" for consumers to select from. I think you are right about "dinosaur brands that have to keep up" and sometimes that does mean dropping the MSRP, if necessary, to stay competitive. It has to be pretty tough to try and sell 'older' models with 'older' technology that have been outclassed at a suggested retail that is significantly higher than comparable detectors on the market. Again, let's revisit the MXT Pro, or re-hashed / re-named All Pro. It is still listed at $899.95 USD. The MXT Pro used to be one of my main-use detectors until a little over two years ago when it was wiped out of my personal detector arsenal because it was simply out-classed and out-performed ... by a model with a renewed lower MSRP of $699. if you are familiar with the competition out there, look how many competitive models to the MXT series offer manual, VCO Audio, backlighted displays, adjustable Tone Break, Ferrous Audio Volume control, Audio Tone Adjustment, and the ability to Save personal settings or restore a Factory Default ... and several of them sell for $100 or more less than the MXT All Pro. You did say "you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before" and I think that's a good thought. But TO ME, if a good company is capable of engineering a newer detector, an advanced detector, a state-of-the-art detector that can set a high standard in the industry, I think that company ought to be able to make that engineering move by designing their own search coils that they also engineer to provide the best source for performance from their own detector. We read a couple of years back where to get the better performance from your top-dollar V3i you needed to buy the after-market Detech Ultimate coil. Last year you folks speedily rushed the MX Sport to market plagued with circuitry and hardware flaws, and didn't even make a smaller-size search coils for it. Then, low-and-behold, a new 7" appears .... also from Detech, the Bulgarian manufacturer. tboykin: It's a good thing for everyone - the aging workhorse machines become cheaper for entry-level users, and the power users get new technology to play with.... I think that 17 years after the original MXT was introduced, with a few remedies to bring us the MXT Pro / All Pro, it is a bit aging, and is priced much higher than competitive models with more features, better weight and balance, and also better in-the-field performance. To stay competitive the MSRP should have been reduced a while back. The only other newer models in the past couple of years have been the Treasure Master and Treasure Pro, not especially hot items, and the Made in China White's XVenture which is a very low-priced model that was marketed by White's factory directly, Amazon and a couple of other sources. Most dealers I have spoken with don't have it listed, didn't know anything about it, or were not pleased with the fact that White's is selling a bargain priced model against their own dealers. If Chuck and some others have an MX Sport that is working properly and they like it, fine. I was hoping the new model was going to be an improved progression of the MXT series, but the several I have handled didn't convey that feeling to me, were nose heavy, and performance was lacking. Admitted, those were some of the early releases that were in dealer's shops, but they soured me enough to not have tried one now they are supposed to be fixed. Again, you were right it saying "newer companies advance technology" and they are out there. I am in the growing group of avid detectorists who are waiting to see what White's might do with some dinosaurs or lemons, adjust prices for reasonable competition, and bring something with newer technology to the market. Something that is newer, field tested, and evaluated by consumers to be sure it will likely be problem-free and not a rush-to-market new model with failures. My first factory-produced detector was a Whites in the summer of '68 and I would honestly like to see White's rise back to the upper ranks of detector manufactures like they used to be. I think it is going to take a bit of effort, however, since the detector market used to be especially strong in the USA way back when, but it is more of a global market today and dwindling in popularity here in the US.

Mike Hillis.. On probes, try to stay at or under 3/16" of an inch diameter. 1/8" is great for information transfer but too thin for recovery. ... With an 1/8" probe I can tell if I'm touching a rock, a root, foil, canslaw or pulltab or a coin. .. Excellent suggestion and I have long favored a 1/8" to 3/16" shaft when I round-off my screwdriver probe. The reference to "information transfer" is what newcomers to probing need to learn, and avid detectorists using this recovery technique have learned to appreciate. Mike Hillis.. Most important part is get good at fast and accurate pinpointing with your detector, and fast probe use. You'll find that anything in the top 4" is faster to retrieve with a probe than then time to takes to dig out the electronic probe and turn it on. (I don't walk around with the electronic probe turned on). ..Once again very correct. Quick/accurate pinpointing and fast isolation and recovery with a good probe and you loose little time. You mentioned pinpointers always being turned on and I was surprised to find some folks who do that.

I used to use the Teknetics G2 and Omega a lot from 2010 to January 2015. I also owned two Fisher F19's which, as Steve H. mentioned, is the same circuitry but in a more comfortable rod/grip package. I do a little Gold Nugget Hunting, but not nearly on the level Steve does, partly due to where I live and health mobility limitations, but I do hunt nugget country a bit. I agree with Steve that, for only nugget hunting use, there really isn't much difference between the two. Overall use there is some, but it's kind of a toss-up which I prefer. I like th4 G2 & G2+ rod and grip design, and can't stand the 11" BiAxial (Double-D) search coil. All I used were the 5" DD and the 5X10 DD coils. I did find the newer G2+ gave slightly better depth and responsiveness on higher-conductive, smaller-size coins, like silver and copper, but I thought the earlier G2 had a little better iron-range of adjustment in the Discriminate mode as the G2+/F19 called for a very high setting just to reject iron nails so there wasn't fine tuning for Relic Hunting iron littered sites. But for chasing lower-conductive gold nuggets, it's probably a toss-up. Monte

usaflaginmaine, 'Welcome' to Steve's Forum and also 'welcome' to the excellent Makro line with the Gold Racer. I really enjoy using my Gold Racer, even for non-nugget hunting applications. It is a rather sparky critter that does take a little time to learn and get used to, but the performance of this detector is simply brilliant. Get out often and use it, learn it well, and keep us posted on your success afield along the way. Monte

Maybe you should highlight and jot down some of the things you don't quite understand and ask some of the folks here for help? Just post a question or two, or maybe send some of us an e-mail. Monte

The first problem is that you are new to this outdoor sport, looking to purchase your first detector, and you have somehow narrowed your selection between two very different detector models. Also, you refer to your budget, and if my computer is correct, that should equal about $1123.00 in USA money. My suggestion is to consider more than one detector. Most avid, enthusiastic detectorists will own at least 2 detectors and at least 2 search coils for each of them, in order to complement their arsenal and be better outfitted for a variety of hunting applications. Most places where gold has been 'mined' can suggest that gold is only in sufficient quantity to make it feasible to spend the costs to mine it, and most mining operations are recovering gold that is deeper in the ground than you might be able to detect it, and quite often it is in smaller, particulate size that it is not able to disrupt the electromagnetic field to cause an audible response. You have to have gold nuggets, from 'picker-size' and larger, located withing a relatoively shallow area to be 'findabale' with a good detector. Even more to consider, Gold Nugget Hunting is more of a specialty field of detecting and can require a greater amount of time doing research, knowing the location you are hunting quite well, and using a Threshold-based All Metal search mode which is not something most 'average' Hobbyists detector users understand. It also takes ample patience and a skill-set that is best learned over time. How deep has most goodl been discovered at in that area? How large, or small, is the gold that is being recovered? Coin & Jewelry Hunting, which can include Beach Hunting, is a more casual and easier to learn (and enjoy) metal detecting activity compared with serious Relic Hunting (which generally includes a lot of trash, especially iron junk that can easily mask good targets) or Gold Nugget Hunting. I would suggest you reevaluate the time you might spend for the type of hunting you will do. Where I currently live, Coin & Jewelry Hunting doesn't have many opportunities for high-production sites. I also live close to some old Gold Nugget Hunting areas, but most were more productive using pans, sluices and other forms of gold specimen recovery due to the smaller-size of the available gold. Most also needed to be dug from the ground and was not of a sufficient size or quantity to make 'electronic prospecting' a very rewarding pastime. Since 1969 my interest in Relic Hunting homesteads and ghost towns has increased, and today I probably spend 90% of my detecting time Relic Hunting rather than just doing urban Coin Hunting. Besides, unless you are in a location where there is a large population, and there are ample outdoor locations for activities that will draw a lot of people who will engage in various forms of recreation to lose pocket-carry coins and knickknacks, then there just isn't as much reward like their used to be. At least here in the USA, the mid-'60s thru the '70s and even into the mid-to-late '80s there were many places to enjoy Coin & Jewelry Hunting where a very adequate quantity of coins could easily be recovered. Those days are mostly gone now and have been for a couple of decades. I deal with bad health and accompanying mobility issues that keep me from being as active afield as I used to be, but I don't give up. I will hang in there and enjoy Relic Hunting as much as possible, and at times I will do some Coin Hunting in and about town. I do have my inner drive to get out when I am able for some Gold Nugget Hunting, and for that I could use my FORS CoRe or Relic or Makro Racer 2, but I relay mainly on my Makro Gold Racer. I have used my detectors for in-the-field comparison as well as classroom demonstration with those units attendees bring to my seminars, and I was left unimpressed with th4e Minelab 705 compared to any detector I use. I have also grabbed my Gold Racer at times just for some casual fun detecting with others, both in-town Coin Hunting as well as out at a ghost town or other older-use site when Relic Hunting. While it might lack a little depth and performance on some higher-conductive, silver-type US coins compared with the CoRe, Relic, Racer 2 and some competitor's models, the overall performance of this 56 kHz Gold Racer is absolutely amazing. I sometimes make it a main-use detector over my others simply because it works so well, and gives me a better opportunity to learn just how well its strengths are. Yes, ALL Gold Nugget oriented detectors can find coins, but they will not always sound so good and they might get to be quite annoying because most Gold Nugget Hunting models do not have automated or manual Ground Balance, and most also lack any form of reasonable, useable, adjustable Discrimination to knock out any unwanted trash targets. The Gold Racer is both well equipped with versatile adjustment features, even to where my CoRe/Relic/Racer 2 and Gold racer are almost all tied at that #1 spot in my detector battery. I don't think you need that, and as a "newbie" there really is a lot ot learn to get a working knowledge of operating frequencies and their pros and cons. Any of the models I listed that I use can be grabbed for Gold Nugget Hunting or Coin & Jewelry Hunting or Relic Hunting, but if you really have a very good opportunity to hunt sites that have an ample supply of nuggets big enough to disrupt the EMF, then I would suggest going with the Gold Racer, but plan to add another detector to your outfit as soon as you can. A good inclination, and I also think you should go with the Makro Gold Racer. You did just add that your "time is limited" and that can present another challenge for you. Metal detecting isn't just a simple matter of turning on a detector like a TV. It calls for a person to get involved in doing research to locate more new and potentially rewarding sites to hunt. To put in an ample amount of time to read their User manual and work with the detector and coils in various applications and site conditions so as to know all the strengths and weaknesses possible. All of the Nokta and Makro search coils are waterproof. As for the size and type you select, that will be a personal thing as you master the detector. In most of the sites I Nugget Hunt, I do prefer to use one of the 5½X10 search coils. That said, I still opt for the smaller round 5½" DD coil almost as often due to the sites having a lot of brush and rock, plus they are a little more responsive on the smaller-size gold specimens that we typically encounter. Sorry this reply is tardy. I thought I had it posted the other day but somehow got distracted ... and on distraction was I went out relic Hunting for a couple of days. Let us know what decisions you make on detector selection and how things go down the road. Monte

Danny, that is a wonderful necklace you found! Definitely the type of jewelry recovery that can warm the heart with excitement and satisfaction. Congratulations. I have owned several Sovereign models in years past, my favorite being an XS 2a Pro model I had. I didn't care for the balance, or how noisy it was in some power line areas where EMI was worse than a couple of other makes and models I used, but I did enjoy it for some open park Coin & Jewelry Hunting. I found it better on higher-conductive coins and less responsive on lower-conductive gold jewelry than the MXT Pro I also used at the time. Danny's reply: Thanks Monte for your questions , I will try my best to answer with my limited knowledge at this stage . Prospecting to me means a combination of beach detecting and detecting for gold or relics in other conditions away from the beach , that could be anywhere . I feel like I need to bring out the Oxford dictionary to quote the meaning of prospecting here. ... Okay, and from here in Western USA I break down the description as 'Prospecting' is a term frequently used with reference to searching for or prospecting for native gold, i.e. Gold Panning, Gold dredging, Sluicing, or my favorite 'Electronic Prospecting' with a metal detector. That term really caught on with the surge in detector use in Australia in the latter '70s and early '80s, and could apply to searches for silver ore as well. Beach Hunting is simply a description to the type of location being hunting, salt water or fresh water, when searching for Coins as well as Jewelry. Coin & Jewelry Hunting, more typically, relates to those who search (where they are allowed to) public parks and schools, private yards, or recreations sites like sports fields, and most often it is an Urban type of site location, whether the town is small or large. Relic Hunting is also a reference to the type of site searched, such as an old battle site, a ghost town, an old stage stop, pioneer or military encampment, homestead, etc., that is usually not occupied, and most of such places I hunt here in the western states in the USA are long-gone and void of any standing structures. Often it takes both research and on-site examination to locate any sign of a former occupation. I started Coin and Jewelry Hunting back in early 1965, but got interested in Relic Hunting ghost towns and homesteads and such in May of 1969, and I devote 80% of my detecting time to Relic Hunting. Doing so, while I am interested in the older period coins, I am especially interested in old Trade Tokens and other types of smaller-size artifacts from earlier days. Things like old buttons, sheep ear tags, bullets, cartridge cases and complete cartridges of interest and all sorts of interesting old 'keepers.' That's what Relic Hunting is to me and many of us. Danny's reply: Monte the sovereign I use for beach hunting . The A2b I have in my man cave , just like the mxt past the upper 48 ( correct me iff I'm wrong) has found the most gold nuggets purportedly here in oz. .. The Garrett Ground Hog got a lot of the early attention in Oz during the gold nugget surge in 'electronic prospecting,' and I am sure the A2b had a lot of use, too, and found its share of gold specimens, but I don't think it has found more gold than the others. Danny's reply: We can't dig up the parks here as they are public places , my experience is limited . I'm lucky I'm located a few kms from one of the busiest stretch of beaches in oz and a state forest a few kms in the hinterland with an old gold mine. ( an old gold mine does not mean I will find gold, I realise this) . The gold fields are an our or so away. What I mean by being hard hit are government sanctioned gold prospecting areas sanctioned for public use , where every foot or so you take there is a dig ( I know that does mean you will not find a nugget but chances are less) . ... Sorry to hear of that limitation. I know some parks in some areas in the US have restrictions, and some cities/towns have ordinances requiring a 'permit' to metal detect their parks. I live in a small, quiet town that is a short drive to several old ghost towns and several are old gold mining camps and towns around here. They were not big producers, nor did they have larger-size gold specimens, but there is always some opportunity at them to find some gold, plus they are enjoyable to Relic Hunt at. My Coin & Jewelry hunting is more limited, but when I lived in a larger metropolitan area, my 'coin count' was much higher. Nothing like the tens-if-thousands of coins I would recover in a single year back in the latter '609s and through the '70s to early '80s, but still a good number of coins possible, and I averaged 12 gold rings per years just from tot-lot playground areas in the bigger city parks and schools plus other gold items and much more silver jewelry. Danny's reply: The sdc2300 I sold for reasons I have written and regret the statement, but the truth shall set you free monte :). My wife has become somewhat of fan of my hobby and she actively par-takes in beach hunting of late. .. I understand, and it is good to hear that your wife enjoys this great sport with you. If I marry again I hope I will have the same good fortune. Danny's reply: There is no chance I'd be selling the a2b gold hunter , and definitely not the sovereign just yet , the sovereign is the only functional machine I have at the moment . The a2b is functional also but as previously said it's a relic and I like the history behind the a2b which is why it's in my mancave or poolroom depending on which country your from. I live in the small town of Vale, in far eastern Oregon in the USA, and I do understand 'man cave' or 'poolroom.' To me it is my 'den' and includes my hunting, fishsing and detecting gear, camping and emergency preparedness gear, research library, desk and computer area. Danny's reply: Treasures , well for me that's a broad definition from old self loading world war 2 cartridges for the Australian infantry slr , to old horse riding buckle belts , to coins , jewellery and the elusive nugget. I like unearthing historical finds , I equally like finding coins and jewellery and like most detectorists a nice large nugget ( one can still dream big monte :), and dream big I do .... I urban settings I go after coins and jewelry. Most hunting I do is Relic Hunting older sites where older cartridge cases and such date to the mid-1800's to very early 1900's. Unfortunately the largest gold nuggets I have ever found have been in the 5 dwt to 8 dwt range and I wish I could access, and find, better-sized gold specimens. Danny's reply: The mxt pro ( which other members has recommended- particular mention to John) I have my eye on as a likely allrounder as with the Excalibur 2 , but like any novice I change my mind depending on reccomendations from members . I have done my own research on the whites Tdi and v3i , however like you said it comes down to a machine your comfortable with . I also need a specialist gold detector for when I'm in Western Australia on my relatives property north of the Gascoyne. Iron ore country?... The MXT Pro, especially, had been my favorite general-purpose detector since it was introduced. I hunted most places with mine, and used the 6½" Concentric coil the most for all types of hunting, including Gold Nugget Hunting. The Nokta FORS Relic and Makro Racer 2 are my current two primary-use detecvtors because theyn both excelled over the MXT Pro in all the hunting environments I typically search, and my Gold Racer is mu go-to unit when Gold Nugget Hunting in many places which tend to have smaller-size gold around here. If there was no Nokta FORS series or Makro Racer series model on the market, I would still own and use the MXT Pro. It is a good detector. Best of success to you in selecting a future detector model and functional search coils, and I trust your good fortune at jewelry hunting continues, too! Monte

Danny: Hi everyone , I'm new to prospecting and already addicted after 2 months. 'Prospecting', to you, means what type of terrain? What typical-size gold are you likely to search for? What area, in general, to you live and do you have ample Gold Nugget Hunting area access close to you or where you can easily access? Is there a really good 'need' to have a PI detector as well as a VLF unit that is designed with Gold Nugget Hunting potential? Danny: I was lucky enough to meet an old timer who has been prospecting for most of his life but is to old to go out these days , so instead refurbishes old detectors. I picked up a sovereign gt and an old a2b gold hunter. Are you also new to the metal detecting sport as well as electronic prospecting? Two 'old detectors' to be used for what? Other than Gold Nugget Hunting, what type of detector use needs do you have? Urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting with modern non-ferrous trash? Relic Hunting older sites with an abundance of iron debris? What experience do you have as that goes a long way toward selecting a detector? Danny: To cut a long story short mike (old timer) had his whole yard set up for detecting in highly mineralised soils to trashy beach conditions . I learnt a lot in the several occasions I have been there as mike has pumped as much knowledge as he could into me. Two 'old detectors' from an 'old timer' so let's hope he is also active and experienced enough to be current on modern detectors and their in-the-field operation. Danny: I've learnt how to use both machines well and found some great treasures with both machines. So, you have learned how to use both older detector models and found some 'great treasures,' but what have you found and what are you after .... other than gold nuggets? What types of sites are you hunting and what is your definition of a 'great treasure?' I ask because through the decades I have been involved in this great sport I have met many people who consider a rusty, decaying iron file a 'treasure,' or something like a hinge off of an old cast iron stove, while most others consider a 'treasure' to be something like an older dated coin, a trade token, a military or unique button, a spur or badge or certain bullets, etc. Thus, I am curious what YOU consider a 'treasure' to be and what types of targets you are looking for, and in what type of an environment. Danny:As with any hobby I purchased an sdc2300 , good machine in mineral soils and hard hit areas. Vague as to what you mean by 'hard hit' areas. Some sites have been 'hard hit' and hunted over a lot for maybe three or four decades, but the amount of trash present has still been masking potentially good targets you are trying to find. Sites such as military or pioneer encampments, ghost towns, mining or logging camps/towns, and so forth. Those types or iron littered places are 'hard hit areas' where I don't think the SDC2300 would be considered a good unit to have in-hand. As for "mineralized soils," that also leaves the door open for description and discussion, which can be entertaining when it comes to detector type and circuitry design, adjustment functions, operating frequency and search coil types used. Danny: Problem: looking for an all purpose machine, To ME, an "All Purpose" or "Multi-Purpose" detector and coil set-up needs to be functional for 'All' hunting needs, to include urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Beach Hunting on both saltwater and freshwater beaches, Gold Nugget Hunting, and Relic Hunting a typically iron littered place with other site challenges, such as dense brush and building rubble. I have owned and used a lot of detectors and rely on a few "All Purpose" detectors as well as a 'specialty and versatile' model developed especially for small gold hunting, but with much greater versatility. Danny: I got pulled into the hype surrounding whites mx sport and sold my sdc2300 ( In addition I sold the sdc as my wife found out the price and threatened divorce) and put my a2b in my mancave in a glass cabinet next to my sporting memorabilia. So down to the sovereign gt , I have ordered a nel attack coil for it , which will slightly improve performance I'm told. Personally, I would also part with the Garrett A2B as well as the more dated Milenlab Sovereign and settle on a very good 'All Purpose' detector with two or three search coils to make a very functional package. Then, if you were located where you had the time and ability to put a Pulse detector to work and where it might have an 'edge' for some Gold Nugget Hunting, add one back into your arsenal ... with your wife's okay, of course. Danny: So I need a gold detector and an all rounder to complement the sovereign get : anyone with advice - I'm thinking between the deus, gpx5000( price is so high though) garrett at pro and whites mxt. I think you need a good "all-a-rounder" that also provides you favorable adjustment functions and operating frequency to perform for a lot of Gold Nugget Prospecting. I have had and used a Garrett AT Pro, and for several years a White's MXT then MXT Pro. I also used to have a few 19 kHz Teknetics G2's and a pair of newer Fisher F19's. All of them have their own followers and they have their likes and dislikes. Of these I liked the MXT Pro the best. The XP Deus is 'OK' in its own way, but it isn't a model I like for several reasons, and it isn't considered a great offering for Nugget Hunting. A very good Gold Nugget Hunting detector I will suggest is the Nokta FORS Gold + which operates at 19 kHz and I really enjoy its versatile performance. For an "All Purpose" performer, however, I will suggest the newest Nokta FORS series model, the Relic. It is based on the 19 kHz FORS Gold + but includes additional search modes and features, such as a 2-Tone general purpose and saltwater/wet alkaline soil Beach mode, and a 3-Tone processed audio mode that is very handy for Coin & Jewelry Hunting as well as working very densely littered Relic Hunting conditions. My current detector battery consists on the NOKTA FORS Relic as my primary-use detector complemented by a Makro Racer 2. I mainly use a 5½" DD coil on either for the trashier conditions I most often hunt in, and for tinier-size gold. On my FORS Relic my 2nd most-used search coil is a 5½X10 Concentric elliptical search, but if a person prefers a DD design they have that in the same size as well. For more open areas either model can use their standard 7X11 DD coil. The Nokta FORS Relic also has some very useful adjustment functions that are great for my Relic Hunting needs in dense ferrous trash, and when I plan to hunt Gold Nuggets where most are typically going to be smaller, my go-to unit is the 56 kHz Makro Gold Racer with either the 5½" round or 5½X10 elliptical DD coil mounted. While my 14 kHz Racer 2 can be used for Gold Nugget Hunting, I know I get better all-around performance from the 19 kHz FORS Relic or 56 kHz Gold Racer. Better still, these models are all quite versatile, durable, have a very good search coil selection, and are all very affordably priced. I don't have a wife right now to have to satisfy with my shopping decisions, but if I did again, I am sure the product, value and cost would be very 'sellable.' Free experienced-user opinions provided ... Monte

In the past 15 months of using my Makro Pointer, I have used my Nokta FORS CoRe, White's MXT All-Pro and modified IDX Pro, XLT and XL Pro, Teknetics T2, Makro Racer, and Tesoro Bandido, Bandido II, Silver Sabre II Bandido II microMAX, Silver Sabre microMAX, Eldorado and only had occasional issues with the MXT All-Pro. It wasn't real bad, and I got rid of my Garrett pointer and White's TRX because they were more of a problem, both in functional behavior and EMI. I always set my detectors down with the search coil close, but away from by recovery area. I then added a Nokta Pointer to my detecting battery last fall when I started thinning my detector arsenal a wee bit as I settled on makes and models that served my needs well. Today, my Primary-Use Favorites are the Nokta FORS Relic and Makro Racer 2 w/Nokta and Makro Pinpointers. My Back-up and Specialty Use Team is comprised of the Nokta FORS Gold + and Makro Gold Racer. On Reserve I have my Nokta FORS CoRe, Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX. I have parted with all other brands and models, but with all of these units I use both my Makro and Nokta Pointers and never have an EMI issue. I did have more EMI problems, to differing degrees, with the Garrett, Bullseye II and TRX pinpointers, which is a good reason why I don't have them anymore. Perhaps I am just fortunate to not have issues with my current set-up? Monte

HI live in Arizona, and want to do mostly coin and jewelry hunting with the occasional hunt on old towns for relics and gold areas for gold nuggets. I started out in this great sport Coin & Jewelry Hunting in March of '65. I started doing a bit of Relic Hunting in old ghost towns and stage stops, etc., in May of '69. Gold Nugget Hunting caught my interest in late 1977. Today, perhaps 80% or more of my detecting time is devoted to Relic Hunting because I enjoy the surroundings I put myself in, and I also enjoy finding the older coins, trade tokens and artifacts. The remainder of my time is a mix or Urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting and Gold Nugget Hunting. Hello, I have been researching this hobby the last week or so and I am thinking I want to give this a shot. It's perhaps the greatest hobby you could get involved in ... and the key word here is get involved. Take it serious and learn all you can. I was strongly considering the AT PRO or ACE 400 after lots of research, but now someone is selling a slightly used G2+ for only $400 which is very tempting considering the price. You should also consider an accessory coil, especially smaller-than stock, for hunting trashier areas or close to metal and structures. Note that a change of coil might not be in harmony with a preset GB like the Ace 400 has, so manual or automated GB can be to your benefit. The Teknetics G2+, the same gets as the Fisher F19, is an improvement over the former Gold Bug Pro and G2, and I have owned and used all of these, but they fell a little short on performance in some of the old, iron littered sites I generally hunt. Some guidance would be greatly appreciated!! I like 'simple' but with ample 'functional' adjustment features that can result in 'performance' afield. I have worked with a few AT Pro and AT Gold detectors and they are 'OK.' I owned two F19's and used to use a few G2/Gold Bug Pro models, and they were 'OK.' I don't own or use any of those models, preferring the Nokta FORS Relic, Makro Racer 2, Nokta FORS CoRe, in that order, for all-purpose performance, and my Nokta FORS Gold + and Makro Gold Racer models for times when I am mainly out Gold Nugget Hunting, but they can also both serve me quite well for some general application searches. Best of success working through the detector choices that are out there, and don't forget to consider available search coils, especially a smaller-than-stock size. Monte

I also appreciate your report, Merton, and I am sure you will find, in time, that the Gold Racer is a worthy model in the Low Frequency range class of detectors. I know I will use mine from time-to-time to seek gold jewelry simply because it has that advantage in its favor. But I have used mine at some Relic Hunting sites when evaluating it, and it definitely can perform well on those lower-conductive targets. Relic Hunting sites I frequent have a lot of trash, especially iron trash, and my preferred models for Relic Hunting, in order I might employ them, are my FORS Relic, Racer 2, FORS Gold + and FORS CoRe ... then the Gold Racer. The exception are my visits to some of the gold mining town sites where there are still a lot of tailing piles where I will use the Gold Racer more in the gold prospecting areas. I have used the Gold Racer in a few places where it was handy to pick the Discriminate mode and only reject some of the hot rock challenges, and Makro's smart move to provide us a detector primarily geared for gold nugget hunting and having Discrimination capabilities is sure a welcome relief. White's, Garrett and Fisher all let us down in the past by not doing this, but I'll bet some future Gold Nugget Hunting models will wake up to the challenge set my Makro's Gold Racer. Best of success to you in the gold fields. Monte

Roughwater: In my search for a reasonably priced detector as an addition to my GPX that can serve as an occasional beach and coin detector as well as a gold prospecting detector for use in high trash areas I am starting to get a short list. Terry, it is tough to find a good detector to handle Beach Hunting and Coin Hunting and still serve OK for Gold Nugget Hunting, especially if you are trying to use a prospecting unit in a high trash area, and that is compounded if the "trash" includes a lot of ferrous debris. Through the years I have done some nugget hunting in a trashy environment, and most of the trashier locations in gold prospecting country tend to be around gold mining towns, gold mining camps, and along water sources where there has been gold prospecting activity. However, the bulk of my gold nugget hunting is done away from those places and more on the hillsides in search of gold that is eroding away from its source over time long before it gets to the river or stream, and where there is very little "trash." Roughwater: One detector on that short list is the Fors Core and in the process of learning more about it I came across the Makro Racer 2. Not a true gold detector for sure but I liked almost everything I have seen and read about the Core other than having to set up and make changes to the settings via the side panel screen. The Nokta FORS CoRe drew may attention as well since it operated at 15 kHz, like the FORS Gold, but had additional search modes for more Coin Hunting and even Relic Hunting flexibility. The 14 kHz Makro Racer offered me similar features and performance as the FORS CoRe and both had a place in my personal arsenal, the FORS CoRe being the more comfortable package design to use for prolonged searches with the standard 7X11 DD coil or the larger 13X15 DD coil. Then you mention the newer Makro Racer 2, operating at the same 14 kHz but with one additional search mode and offering many more adjustment functions that enhance its versatility in any application. I prefer my Racer 2 for urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting as well as Relic Hunting the very trashy ghost towns, homesteads, old encampment sites, etc., that I enjoy searching. There have been other models than the Racer 2 and FORS CoRe that you should also consider. There is the Nokta FORS Gold + that I really like for both its Gold Nugget Hunting potential as well as working even better in many old Relic Hunting applications, and the reason for that is the operating frequency is 19 kHz. I have owned four Teknetics G2's and two Fisher F19's, all operating at 19 kHz, and the FORS Gold + excellent in performance over them for my needs. Then came the Makro Gold Racer at 56 kHz which is unique in the gold prospecting detector market as it was the first Low Frequency detector designed for Gold Nugget Hunting in the LF range that included motion-based Discriminate search modes. This will be my tiny-size nugget unit, and also be grabbed for Gold Jewelry Hunting in high-potential sites for those lower-conductive losses. I have also used the Gold Racer in some Relic Hunting application, but mainly away from the nastiest, densest trash. There I prefer my Racer 2 or FORS Relic. That brings us to the other new model recently announced by Nokta and now being shipped, the Nokta FORS Relic. The Relic is in a similar housing package as the FORS CoRe and FORS Gold +, and is kind of a 'blend' of these two designs and then some. It has the Di2 (2-Tone) and Di3 (3-Tone) and COG (Beach) modes like the FORS CoRe, plus two additional 2-Tone modes, Swift and Boost that are somewhat similar to the two Discriminate modes of the Gold +. The Relic also operates at 19 kHz like the Gold +, and additionally features Tone Break and Iron Volume control. With the added modes and adjustment functions, and operating at 19 kHz, the new Relic makes a superb Relic Hunting detector that you can use for Coin and Beach Hunting, and operating at this frequency can make it better than the CoRe for a lot of Gold Nugget Hunting. Roughwater: The Macro Racer 2 seemed very, very similar but runs at 14khz, weighs only 3 lbs including batteries and the Racer screen is right in front of the user. The price seems very good as well on either but the Core pro package offers 3 coils including the 15" X 13" coil and the Makro Racer 2 only offers only 2 coils for about the same price. Most hobbyists and avid detectorists don't have a need for the largest-size search coil, and I think it makes a better accessory coil choice. For me an most of my needs, the 7X11 DD gets only periodic use in open, low-target areas. The bulk of mu hunting is handled by a smaller coil, and in moderate target sites the 5½X10 coils do the work. There is a very good selection of Makro and Nokta models for you to choose from, and it only needs your consideration of what operating frequency might fit your needs and which primary purpose the detector will serve. Roughwater: What drew me to the Core is that by all accounts offers great depth and appears to be very useful in trashy areas to separate the iron from the good stuff. The Makro and Nokta models mentioned, all of them, can do very well at separating targets, and most handle iron pretty well. The higher-frequency Gold Racer is, however, better for chasing tiny nuggets than it is hunting in dense iron debris. Yes, I have hunted with my Gold Racer in littered places, but was more comfortable with the performance of the FORS Relic, Racer 2 and FORS Gold +, in that order. Roughwater: In looking the specs for both machines, it appears they took the best features of both and made the Makro Racer 2. Every one of these Makro and Nokta models have been well designed and share similar features, and some have their own features. The Racer 2 does offer more advantages to the Coin Hunting Hobbyist, perhaps, but they are all performers. Roughwater: My question here would be directed to anyone who has used either the Core or the new or original Makro Racer and their feelings about the usefulness of either for general detecting and gold detecting. Okay, considering them all, I would put the FORS CoRe in the 'General Detecting' category, and even the Racer 2, and put the Gold Racer more in the primary-use category for Gold Detecting. The Gold + and Relic models, operating at 19 kHz, would be useful for all types of use, Relic Hunting, Gold Nugget Hunting and Coin Hunting ... or you could say "General Detecting" with an advantage for "Gold Detecting." Roughwater: How are you liking your Racer 2? I love the Racer 2 and it is often the first unit I grab off the back seat when I get to most trashier Relic Hunting locations, and is also the first unit grabbed when I hit an urban Coin Hunting site. However, it isn't the only model I use. For many old town sites, such as the three Gold Mining Towns we will be hunting next week, the FORS Relic will be my primary-use detector. I have always preferred to have a good working detector battery so I can grab the model and coil that I feel best fits my needs. Roughwater: If I had to choose between the Fors Gold plus and the Fors Gold I believe the 19khz Gold Plus would be more in line with what I'm looking for in all around Gold machine. As Steve has noted in his post the Gold Racer is more of a dedicated gold machine and runs at 56khz. I would also grab the Gold + of these two. The FORS Gold operates at 15 kHz and the Gold + operates at 19 kHz. The 56 kHz model I am using is the Makro Gold Racer. I have seen the Nokta Au Gold but I find the Makro Gold Racer doing all I need for tiny-size gold and also providing more in the way of visual display. This is a busy season for trying to select a "just right for me" model, isn't it? Monte

Yes, the Nokta and Makro Detector folks really do listen, participate in monitoring various Forums, and take action where they feel it is needed or desired by avid consumers. ALL of the Makro Racer and Nokta FORS models have been designed to be very versatile, and really seem to go above and beyond what we have had to pick from amongst competitors One prime example is the Makro Gold Racer operating in the Low Frequency range at 56 kHz AND featuring TWO motion-based Discriminate modes and not simply an All Metal mode for Gold Nugget Hunting. Up 'til the Gold Racer release we hadn't seen that from any major manufacturer in a LF nugget use detector. The Gold Racer CAN be used with success for some Relic Hunting applications, but the other Racer/FORS models tend to be better. I have been Relic Hunting since mid-'69 and took to the FORS CoRe immediately and the original Racer complemented it, and both have worked well and rewarded me at many old, iron littered sites. Then along came the FORS Gold + operating at 19 kHz and the way it performed was very, very good. The Gold + became my main-use detector for Relic Hunting as well as being able to do what it was designed for, and that is looking for gold nuggets. I still toted my CoRe along because 1. it works well, and 2. it has the more processed Di3 (3-Tone) mode that does come in handy for certain dense iron nail areas. The bulk of my Relic Hunting I still prefer a 2-Tone operation, and the Gold + works that way, but I was wishing it had a 3-Tone option. Keith and I worked with a prototype that was very close to offering us some of the enhancements which we both agree were excellent complements to the Gold + and working at a desired 19 kHz, and a 2nd revised housing had all the engineering tweaks necessary to make a really serious, dedicated RELIC based detector! The Low-Tone and High-Tone in the four 2-Tone modes was 'fixed' to be similar to the CoRe at a Tone setting of '5', and that sounded excellent. The Di2/2-Tone mode became an excellent main-use search mode because it behaved very similar to the Gold + and unmasking targets in iron sites is terrific! The adjustment features allow further enhancement of performance based on the operators personal desires because it has the benefit of adjustable Tone Break, to separate the lower/high break point in all the 2-Tone modes, and an Iron Volume adjustment so you can tame the Volume or Loudness of the low-tone Iron range targets. They added a Di3/3-Tone mode that's not on the Gold +, and also two additional 2-Tone modes, Swift and Deep, for use in certain applications where they might provide an advantage. Better still, they made a change in the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous Target ID break than the original 15 kHz CoRe and 19 kHz Gold +. Those models have the '00' to '40' range for Ferrous targets and Non-Ferrous are stuffed in the '41' to '99 TID numeric range. The new Makro Racer 2 has that iron/Non-Iron TID break set at '10' so you can get a broader range to help visually classify potential targets. This is going to be appreciated by both Coin Hunters and Jewelry Hunters. The new FORS Relic sort of compromises with a '00' to '20' range for Iron targets and the Non-Ferrous targets still have an ample range to break down their general numeric identity, but there are so many different sizes and shapes and alloy mixtures in all the desired relics that you can't really be too exacting. The '20' Target ID break is a nice change from the CoRe and Gold + and adds to what makes the new Relic such an excellent all-around Relic Hunting performer! As for the COG mode, also referred to as a Beach mode on some models like the Racer's, it can come in handy at times when dealing with wet alkaline desert soils. Not always needed, but there for those times when it can be put to good use. The new FORS Relic has to be one of the best detectors, especially since it is a 2-Coil standard package, for a really serious Relic Hunter. It is my #1 all purpose detector, with the Racer 2 and Gold + riding together as my 2nd pick back-ups where desired. A model that can still work for the Coin and Jewelry Hunter or the Gold Nugget Hunter, but is really a great 19 kHz, feature-set and performance based detector for the Relic Hunting enthusiast. Monte

Steve, I know the initial Operator's Manual stated '22 Tones' and it was errant on White's part, I believe, and I didn't note it at first. However, I believe the correct description is '20' Tone options in a Discriminate mode (1, 2, 4, 8 and 20), and '2' Tone options in the All Metal mode. One is 'VCO' enhanced audio, and the other is 'No-VCO' for a standard single tone. So combined with the '20' Tones available in the Discriminate mode and '2' Tone options in the All Metal mode, that totals '22' Tones available. Monte

My White's Ghost Towner BFO in '68 had a straight shaft, and my Compass Coin Hustler has a straight shaft. Most early detectors had a straight shaft/rod, and some, like the old Fisher T-20 or Orion 121 units I had, used a curved handle on the straight rod. Some had a straight shaft to the control housing and a handle on top of the control box, like the White's blue-box 6000 series, or an angled handle on the control box like the Compass X-100. The popular design then went to with a straight shaft really included those that curved at the back end and went back up over the control housing, like the Garrett Ground Gog, Compass 77B or Relic Magnums, and many, many more. A straight shaft was basically all we had until the popular 'S' rod change hit the market, and that mainly started with the Fisher 1260X in '82. In '83 Tesoro came out with the straight shaft Inca and Mayan with a handle on the housing, but also later the Silver Sabre which used the 'S' rod design, and for the most part that has continued to today with most manufacturers. I much prefer the various 'S' or 'Curved' rod designs in use today and find them more comfortable and maneuverable or better handling most of the time. Monte

2016 Plans on 1-2-'16: 1.. Plan a trip very soon to a drier and warmer location! With 6" of snow in my yard now and more coming this week, plus it is: Current Temp -5°F Humidity 75% Wind Speed WSW 5 MPH Barometer 30.47 in (1037.6 mb) Dewpoint -11°F (-24°C) Visibility 10.00 mi Wind Chill -16°F (-27°C) That's a bit too nippy for me and any of my detectors! 2 Jan 7:53 am MST 2.. Figure out where to travel later this month in Arizona or California. 3.. I'm ready and my 'primary-use' detectors are ready, so I plan to find some manageable (for me and my impaired mobility) gold producing (potential) sites to hunt, as well as some old-use places for Relic Hunting. I need more older dated coins, trade tokens and keepers to start my year than I got in 2015. 4.. As always, continue to learn more and master the detectors I have, interesting models that come along (like the Nokta Impact), and as always, meet new friends who enjoy this great outdoor sport, have 'fun' on my way to achieving success. All the best to others in working on their goals for the new year. Monte

Steve, The CTX-3030, like the other FBS series of models, does have some strengths for many avid users, and those who learn it and understand it, both the strengths and weaknesses, will be able to get the best out of it ... as long as the functions and performance are a good fit for the types of hunting they do, and the environment they are hunting in. I have several friends who are very avid, loyal users of Minelab FBS models, and I have owned five or six myself. A few of them own nothing but an Explorer II, SE Pro, E-Trac or CTX-3030, but those are the friends who ONLY hunt in older parks and grassy sites in large, urban environments. They don't get out to the old railroad ghost towns and similar iron infested sites where I like to go, and their primary target for accomplishment is finding US silver coins. A few of them have tried hunting my favorite sites only to discover their choice of weapon left them at a serious disadvantage compared with those of us who used brands and models that excelled in some of the most challenging iron trash environments imaginable. On the other hand, I do have two friends who do use CTX and Explorer II models for the city-type locations, but they also have one or two different detectors which they learned are excellent detectors to compliment the Minelab models because they do join in some tough-condition old site hunts with me and others. The main thing I was trying to get across was the importance of knowing HOW a detector works, to LEARN both the pros and cons of the different functions, especially how the Ground Balance circuitry works in either or both the Threshold-based All Metal Mode or a Threshold or Silent Search motion Discriminate mode. 'sjmpainter' started this topic about finding silver coins in Anchorage, Alaska, and was using his Fisher F19. My comments in this thread were, hopefully, to call attention to the fact that some detectors, especially many of the more modern offerings that rely on a lot of digitally designed circuitry, just might have a 'fixed' or 'controlled' Ground Balance function in the Discriminate mode that could impair the detection depth, or even positive target detection and proper/anticipated audio Tone or visual TID responses. That's just for a single larger-size, higher-conductive target like a US silver Dollar, but might also apply to a silver or clad Half-Dollar. Also, if a Coin Hunting hobbyist works a private yard, old farm or ranch, or any location with a potential of encountering a small hidden or lost container, they should know how their detector works for such a scenario, and which model to use or which search mode and settings they need for peak performance. As I mentioned, I haven't used any of the FBS models on my 'poke sample' with 5 silver Walking Liberty Halves stacked on top of a silver Dollar, but I plan to the next opportunity I get. Meanwhile, it is wintertime here in Vale, Oregon and detecting opportunities have been put on-hold, which naturally calls for more effort to Research My planned trip to an old encampment for some Relic Hunting with the FORS CoRe and Gold+ was halted by cold weather and high winds and gusts, and that was followed with snow. Now dressed in wintery white, I would think Anchorage Alaska just might be looking similar and 'sjmpainter' got a nice help in the post you provided him and readers. With the oldest date 1949 and the next newre date 1952, it gives some hints for current building dates and more research is needed to find any that had been there prior at or near the current school site. Thanks for adding the information as I am sure it can be a good help for him .... when huntable weather returns. Monte

• I use over-size (aka Large) search coils only for Cache Hunting or some contract searches. Standard search coils I use occasionally, like maybe 5% of the time when hunting sparse-target, wide-open places such as plowed land, soccer fields or big, open parks, or a rare occasion beach hunt. Smaller-than-stock coils get used at easy 90% to 95% of the time on every detector in my working arsenal. • Your visual and audio response on the CTX-3030 didn't really surprise me. I don't own a '3030' and haven't evaluated them with all of my test samples or in-the-field scenarios, but I have done some of them, like my 'NBPT,' and wasn't very impressed for working dense iron infested sites where I generally hunt. • The test sample that I use to simulate a small leather pouch of silver coins stacked together causes quite a surprise to most people with a wide range of detectors, all depending upon the factory default, automated, or manual Ground Balance setting. It's very interesting to learn the type of GB each detector in your arsenal has. Do you know how the CTX 3030 is designed? Is it fixed (preset or imbedded in the digital circuitry), or adjustable (automated, tracking or manual) for the search mode? A quick glance at the Owner's Manual left me wondering if adjusting the GB has a direct effect on the search mode, and if so, just how much added GB (positive setting from preset) it might have. Ground Balance often has a lot more to do with a metal detector's performance than most people think, and it is one of the detector functions I take into serious consideration in day-to-day searching as well as evaluating in all search modes. Evaluating includes not only field use, but dedicating some 'bench testing' as well to learn a detector well in order to gain peak performance. Here's a quote from the CTX-3030 Instruction Manual, Pg. 21: "Ground Balance should not be enabled in most detecting conditions where ground mineralization is mild. This includes most beaches, parks and sports grounds." An interesting manual and default settings design. On Page 51, under Factory Settings, it states: "Ground Balance -- Enable Off" I like 'simple,' and a simple look at these statements suggests to me: The Ground Balance is 'Off' and not Enabled, and shouldn't be Enabled in "most detecting conditions where mineralization is mild." Furthermore, if the design engineers presume that "this includes most beaches, parks and sports grounds" then they are suggesting the already established (aka preset or imbedded in the digitally programmed circuitry) Ground Balance is already set (not Enabled) for a broad range of sites that represent "mild mineralization." Then, by their description, GB CAN BE enabled to adjust the GB setting for more moderate mineralization and even more sever mineralization, and to do so, the GB adjustment has to be increased for a more positive GB setting than and unEnabled factory default setting. Hummm, kind of makes me wonder just how positive the GB setting might be adjusted for the motion search modes, and with the increased, positive setting, is there any impairment in performance? Like I said, I don't own a '3030, ' but I know how the detectors in my personal arsenal perform, and am comfortable with their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to a functional Ground Balance in the motion Discriminate modes. It can affect both the audio response as well as a visual read-out on most detectors I have evaluated. Maybe you could use your test sample and experiment with your CTX and learn if there are any pros or cons between the default Vs automated GB adjustment? Bryan, • Very correct that "big silver" such as one US silver Dollar will usually have a read-out as described in the Ground Coin mode, but the test sample I use to mimic a lost or hidden poke of just five silver coins stacked/bunched together can really be a surprise. • I see in your profile you list a Tesoro Vaquero. I had three, but that was after they were first released. I currently have my favorite Tesoro's in my personal arsenal, two of which are a Bandido II and a Bandido II microMAX. If I recall correctly, the Vaquero has a functional design similar to many of the Tesoro models where the manual GB setting for the Threshold based All Metal mode can be set as desired, but the motion-based Discriminate mode (by design) has a somewhat positive off-set from the All Metal mode adjusted Ground Balance. Like my Tesoro's, and possibly yours, if a GB is adjusted too positively, they might not signal on a big silver Dollar, and some might not respond to a Half-Dollar or maybe even a Quarter. That's what I learned over 32 years ago and have done my best to learn how (if possible) I can get the best GB setting for a motion-based Discriminate mode, even with models that are a silent-search type. This is how I coined the term and technique way back then of "Power Balance" that lets me control the Disc. mode's GB setting for peak performance in that mode ... but not all makes and models provide operator control of that adjustment in a Discriminate mode. I just make sure I know all I can about detectors that work for me, provide the performance I need, and don't fail a lot of real-life scenarios. Sorry to ramble, but hope there might be some help you'll find in it. Monte