Coiltek Coils For The GPX 6000 - Confirmed!

[phrunt]

22 minutes ago, jasong said:

Not selling your 6000 anymore then?

I see indications that the rigid control over coils and the range of sizes available is less about Minelab adding another revenue stream (how much can you actually make off a chip license compared to a new detector sale?) and more to ensure there is a solid delineation between detector models in performance, so as to ensure we'll always be eager for newer detector models at $6-10k rather than just buying much cheaper coils to enhance performance.

Not sure about selling it I'm pretty down on the whole thing, I've had a lot of people contact me saying I'm being too hasty giving up on it so quickly.   JW's going to try his 11" on mine and see if it improves once his 11" comes back from warranty, it's going to be some time and the service agent and ML have no stock of it and he's going to use mine and see what he thinks by comparison to his and see if it is acting how it should, I just seem to have an endless battle with EMI no matter where I use it, I'm constantly pressing the noise cancel button over and over again to try make it stable, more often than not it just makes it worse.  I was hoping by putting a smaller aftermarket coil on it then the EMI would improve, and also if my 11" has a problem this would resolve it.  It just sucks having a detector you've got no confidence in.    My Avantree Torus arrived yesterday and that will solve my speaker problem and the high pitched hiss in my headphones so that's a good start, I've quickly tested it and I can hear no high pitched hiss using it, so it's not the detector causing it, it's the dodgy headphones.  My ML80's also didn't have the high pitched hiss when connected to the 6000.

Mine works great with the 14" DD, perfectly in fact, I was for the first time happy with the detector when I put that coil on it.

At this point if I want it fixed it has to have a fault, I don't know if it does anymore, it appears to work, I can send it in and leave it with them for weeks and see if they fault it, they're just a camera repair store in NZ for the service agent and they haven't been a service agent for that long, do I have faith they'll find any problems with it? No.

You're probably right for their reasoning of locking down the coils like this, either way they win, they make money off each chip they sell and they get full control over what the aftermarket can make.  Gone are the good old days of the older GPX series and freedom of coil designs.  Those freedoms brought us some really good coils, various spirals and figure 8's and a wonderful range of shapes and sizes, one to suit everybody and their needs.

I love my Coiltek Joey and the 11' Coiltek AI coil.  Excellent coils.

[Gold Hound]

3 hours ago, jasong said:

Not selling your 6000 anymore then?

I see indications that the rigid control over coils and the range of sizes available is less about Minelab adding another revenue stream (how much can you actually make off a chip license compared to a new detector sale?) and more to ensure there is a solid delineation between detector models in performance, so as to ensure we'll always be eager for newer detector models at $6-10k rather than just buying much cheaper coils to enhance performance.

That was my point I've used the 6k enough to know what it would be like with a larger coil. Minelab are obviously just protecting the sale's of their top priced model.

The detector handles the 17 elliptical just fine, but elliptical coils geometry limits their depth capacity even though they have a very similar surface area and susceptibility to EMI.

So I call B.S. in regards to the arguments of electronics not being suitable and noise limiting their performance.

Its simple physics, round coils are quieter than elliptical and larger diameter coils go deeper.

Elliptical coils are limited by the width of the narrowest part of the coil and also suffer from the uneven signal rx of their shape which also negatively affects edge of detection target depth considerably.

The 17in minelab coil is clearly designed for smaller gold and not depth as all elliptical coils should be due to the above. I've never been a fan of elliptical coils due to years of seeing the comparative results.

If I was able to get a 14in and 18in or 20in round coils for the 6k it would render my 7k obsolete, and I'm just talking monos here a well designed concentric would be a complete game changer in my opinion.

Hence my frustration at the current situation, and I can't swallow the invalid excuses put forward as to why...

Any way that's my final take on the situation. I suppose it leads me back to using Xcoils again.

[Jonathan Porter]

This is not a defend Minelab at all costs post in spite of my constantly being accused of it, the following comments are just about trying to be factual and to provide a different POV otherwise a lot of discussions just turn into a Minelab bashing bitching second-guessing session which is fine if that’s what’s preferred but there is also a lot of non-factual information being sprouted along the way. I find myself wanting to post at times but then hit the wall of previous accusation so then decline, this means there is an atmosphere around that is killing discussion and debate ergo the potential to become very one sided as voices are slowly being shut up. Just my POV and how I feel every time things become heated and accusations of my being a Minelab lackey get brought up as a means to shut down my input. Even if you consider my input biased, and yes I am, although I do try to temper my comments, I do definitely lean towards Minelab because of my close association in product development, BUT consider this I am often only ‘one-voice’ compared to the MANY!

The GPX 6000 has the same outright depth on large targets as the GPX 5000, it was never intended to compete with the GPZ7000 for depth and the supplied coils reflect that. The GPX17 elliptical was provided as a ground coverage coil for prospecting purposes as such it does an amazing job thanks to light weight and incredible sensitivity along with a bit more depth over the GPX11 coil, in essence the supplied coils compliment where the GPX6000 offers an advantage over previous machines.

I’m not going to be crass and suggest operators go back to a 5000 with its plethora of large coils but essentially that was always going to be the case in the design parameters of the 6000 purely because most ground has been well gone over with many many varieties of coil sizes and designs for many years. This then leads to the announcement of aftermarket coils made under license (thank-you Minelab ?), manufacturers need to throw development dollars into a market where the most sales reside which explains the offerings, this also compliments what the GPX6000 does so much better than any other detector.

The 6000 was never designed to outperform the GPX5000 for max depth, the technology is as good as the previous GPX machines but not better in that regard. I see little point in using a GPX6000 with a large coil attached when I can get better depth performance out of a GPZ7000 with the stock GPZ14 coil. I know not everyone can own both, but nor on the flip side, can I swing both at the same time, there will always be a compromise. I have to forgo quite a bit of easy gold for the GPX6000 when I choose to swing the GPZ7000.

The GPX6000 is heavily weighted towards the ease of use simplicity side of detecting, it is biased towards where its underlying tech has a HUGE advantage, namely the smaller missed targets that still remain in goldfields areas, this has now been borne out by many many users world wide. You will notice there are some functions that are fixed in stone on the GPX6000, one is a continuous Auto Ground Balance with no FIXED option, there is no Threshold control or a Threshold Pitch control, these settings have all been optimised to keep ANY operator in the peak position to find gold.

The settings are all optimised to ‘bark’ on a missed piece of gold so that any operator no matter how inexperienced or skilled can benefit from its abilities without the confusion of many many switches and settings combinations. The very fact that Minelab have created dedicated Auto modes that have a proper zero threshold function speaks to the effort and intelligent thought processes that have gone into its design, all happening under the hood in a non confusing fashion.

This is just my 2 cents and they’re not aimed any anyone in particular, I consider Minelab allowing more coil choices so soon after the release of the GPX6000 to be a very positive thing, the fact that there are two aftermarket coil makers is a huge bonus. 

JP

 

 

 

[araratgold]

JP,

You have stated that " The GPX 6000 has the same outright depth on large targets as the GPX 5000 "

Surely, if this is the case, the 6K would benefit from an 18 or 25 round, just the same as the 5K benefited from the larger coils ??? Especially for those who can't afford a 6K and a ZED ?? Or would EMI make it unusable ?

IMHO, your statement that the 6K doesn't need big coils makes no sense, as there are still many places that have never had a coil over them, where deep gold may still sit !

Rick

[Norvic]

JP ya can defend ML til the cows come home, but nothing changes, they are just very bad lads..................... even though they make magic detectors....

[schoolofhardNox]

I guess my question is  "what is considered a large target?" Is a US quarter a large target? Because the 11" and the 14" coil can not hit that target nearly as deep as a 12.5 DD coil can on the 5000. I have yet to dig anything close to 15 to 20"  range like the 5000 can. I can get 15" on a dime with the 5000. I can't hear a quarter at 10" with the 6000. So far for me, it does not go nearly as deep as the 5000. If anyone has any magic settings to get me even with the 5000, I'm all ears.

[mn90403]

Guys, guys, guys ... push and pull with a little bit of self-interest and logic here when it comes to Minelab.  Help rather than attack.

What would happen if Minelab would just say 'to hell with it,' we can't satisfy those gold detectorists any more.  We're out of that business next year.  The users pushed too hard.  It just isn't any 'fun' making these any more.  Margins are scant.  Production overruns and quality control problems in a time of Covid are just too difficult.  We aren't going to make any more gold detectors because patches aren't giving it up like they once did.  We're changing our business model.  We are going to be like the dodo bird and White's electronics.

I don't have a horse in the 6000 race because I just don't detect often enough to justify a multi thousand outlay now.  Maybe in a few years when the boys get older but until then be a little bit nicer to Minelab and the dealers and we'll have them to kick around a bit longer.  Bashing has gotten us to where we are now.  Maybe some honest, constructive posting on the Minelab website will get us to where we think they should be.

[Norvic]

Hey MN, life is like a good beer best enjoyed when served chilled, tongue in cheek so to speak tis no sheep station and we who use ML detectors mostly believe they are the worlds best, we need ML aye we customers would miss em but they`d miss us as much as we are just an adorable mob yes/no. We`d also miss Coiltek whose thread this is.

[mn90403]

Fair enough.