AlgoForce E1500

[Steve Herschbach]

44 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

All that being said, I know very experienced detectorists like Steve and Andrew Benson who can manipulate controls on the fly on the GPX 6000 (which has no explicit iron check features) to derive ferrous telltale responses. I believe this does require a DD coil to be attached, but Steve or Andrew can set the record straight on that.

No I hate the GPX 6000 DD coil and only used it long enough to decide I hated it. Hate is a strong word I rarely use but that coil truly sucks so it is appropriate. I do most ferrous vs non-ferrous work with all PI detectors strictly with my ear. I never use the Minelab or Axiom ferrous functions as totally untrustworthy for nugget detecting. I have seen 1/4 ounce plus gold nuggets called ferrous by those type systems and that's too much money to give up based on a poor result. Missing a bullet or a coin is one thing, missing a $500 nugget another. I honestly forget the feature exists as I never use it.

Since I am going by tones only the E1500 method of supplementing that audio indication with a 0-99 number plus a continuous response graph the E1500 will in my mind only supplement and improve what I am already doing. It will add a visual to my audio information and should allow me to be even more accurate. It does not make me rely on the detector saying good or bad, it only adds to what I am already doing. I'll simply look at the target id number and watch what that graph is doing in addition to hearing what I am hearing, and make better decisions. That's the plan at least. It is like hunting with full tones and VLF - I do not like notching out targets, just give me all the info and let me decide.

DD coils stopped being a thing in nugget hunting circles starting with the GPX 4000, when Minelab started optimizing for mono as almost always getting better depth than DD coils. So while the relic hunters and such in urban areas will maybe miss DD, almost everyone I know runs mono 99% of the time anyway. The only DD I played with much in the last decade as been the Axiom 7x11 FC DD because of it's unique features, but at end of day I have gone back the the 7x11 mono as being deeper and having more consistent audio responses.

I also very much like monos as they allow me to eliminate small surface targets with a double blip signal as these small surface targets pass under each edge of the coil. It is an immense aid in not digging surface trash as I focus on targets that only read in the center of the coil, which means they are larger and have depth to them. I am currently using an Infinium with 14x10 mono at Tahoe because I eliminate all the surface light aluminum foil targets and hair pins with this methodology, only digging centered softer targets that are the deeper better ones I am after. It’s a specific type of discrimination I find extremely usual and I can only do it with mono coils due to the edge sensitive nature of the coil. I got the Infinium for Tahoe because the Axiom is actually too powerful and overloads with the mono coils, forcing me to use the DD coil. Not a problem with the Infinium, nor as a side note, the Impulse AQ, which uses an 11” mono. Lived that detector but refuse to get another until Fisher sorts that mess out, so Infinium it was. That 14x10 mono is one of the sweetest I’ve ever run.

So while I fully appreciate what you and Jeff are saying I personally will not even notice lack of DD capability as I really don't use them anyway. In the last 20 years of PI detecting I'd say I have had a mono coil on my various PI detectors for 99% of the hours run and that is a lot of hours. I have to except the GPZ 7000 and the DOD coil because except for X-Coil that is all you can run on a GPZ 7000.

[abenson]

Yea that DD on the 6000 is short of worthless. I used it beach hunting one time and figure it's probably a cancel coil. Depth is waaaaaay short if what a normal DD will get that size. I guess if EMI is an issue it's usable. For relic hunting I use the 11" mono on the 6000 and can say I really don't miss iron disc of the 4500/5000. If you use your ears and go by shape, sound and size, the 6000 is great. I know where the crossover point with both timings are and if I get a questionable target I'll flip between normal and difficult to see what happens with the signal. But overall I don't miss DD coils.

Having said that and swearing I'd never got back to a 4500 or 5000, I recently picked a used 4500 up for beach hunting and those real bad hotrock infested areas I gold hunt sometimes. The 6000 just doesn't do well in either of those scenarios.

I'm real excited to see what the Algoforce has to offer when it comes to some form of target ID. It should be an extra bit of information to use when hunting trashy sites and time restraints don't allow for digging every target.

[Gold Catcher]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I do most ferrous vs non-ferrous work with all PI detectors strictly with my ear. I never use the Minelab or Axiom ferrous functions as totally untrustworthy for nugget detecting. I have seen 1/4 ounce plus gold nuggets called ferrous by those type systems and that's too much money to give up based on a poor result. Missing a bullet or a coin is one thing, missing a $500 nugget another. I honestly forget the feature exists as I never use it.

This really nails it, and this is perhaps not understood by some. For serious gold prospecting with a PI (let alone ZVT) there is no discrimination or target ID feature that would ever work with the current technology. Period. The Algoforce will not change this fact a bit. This is why neither the SDC, 6k nor the GPZ even offer this "feature", as they are designed for detecting gold. As Steve said, the only way to potentially do this is by ear. But it needs to be stressed that you really need to put in a few thousand hours fieldwork to get this "right". Many operators will not rely on this method and dig it all, me included. The only "discrimination" I do is the boot scratch method. Works pretty good, and it is free. For relic and coin hunting this is a different discussion, but also remember that gold prospecting and relic hunting are fundamentally different and require totally different techniques.

GC

[RONS DETECTORS MINELAB]

Really hoping this E1500 has a stable conductivity target ID, have always wanted this feature on a PI. I can hear at the most probably 8 variations in tones on a PI which would be like running an equinox with a broken LCD screen. I usually dig everything until about quitting time, so would be still a great feature when I’m tired and only select digging targets.
Smooth timings have allowed mono coils to dominate most ground types, but with all detectors EMI is what can really hinder performance, hopefully they can get mono’s to handle emi better like the 6000’s Exceed series.

Bruce Candy even had to start somewhere and promote the original concepts and look where we are at now.

[Phillips_R]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:55 PM, phrunt said:

He used his time at Minelab to learn what not to do  😛

Well said Simon

[Steve Herschbach]

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

This really nails it, and this is perhaps not understood by some. For serious gold prospecting with a PI (let alone ZVT) there is no discrimination or target ID feature that would ever work with the current technology. Period. The Algoforce will not change this fact a bit. This is why neither the SDC, 6k nor the GPZ even offer this "feature", as they are designed for detecting gold. As Steve said, the only way to potentially do this is by ear. But it needs to be stressed that you really need to put in a few thousand hours fieldwork to get this "right". Many operators will not rely on this method and dig it all, me included. The only "discrimination" I do is the boot scratch method. Works pretty good, and it is free. For relic and coin hunting this is a different discussion, but also remember that gold prospecting and relic hunting are fundamentally different and require totally different techniques.

GC

The AlgoForce does indeed change things with what it brings to the table for me but if not for anyone else…. whatever. I 100% advocate digging everything, every target. Yet what do you do when you have two hours and are looking at a nail filled trash pit? I’m going to cherry pick my targets. And the additional information the AlgoForce is offering me is going to enhance that ability for me in my hands. It gives me more information while not taking away anything from me. It makes no decisions for me, unlike the Minelab and Axiom systems. But I can see why for others it changes nothing and is not worth even considering or trying, and that’s fine. Nobody and I mean nobody needs one of these…. except me. I know what I want and have a plan so enough from me on this subject. 

[Gold Catcher]

14 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yet what do you do when you have two hours and are looking at a nail filled trash pit?

I usually use VLF for these situations, like my Manticore with gold prospecting mode and all metal. The ferrous indicator does not work at all (!) for small gold, only the Target ID is somewhat useful if the gain is not too high. But depth is very limited (<3 inch). But indeed, and as you say, for these situations I am very eager to hear the first reviews, as a PI-ID might indeed be superior to the VLF IDs in these situations, albeit depth will likely limit target ID accuracy, even for a PI. Nevertheless, for this particular situation the PI-ID might indeed be superior, which would probably be reason enough to buy the Algoforce, in particular looking at the fairly low price. And mono coil will then be fine, because the ID will probably only work well in shallow ground anyhow, and sensitivity is maximized with mono.

GC

[Phillips_R]

Looks like a great opportunity to dip my toes in the PI arena with what seems to promise to be an exceptional value for the $$. While Algo is going through the fcc testing and entering the US market I can be reading Simon's and other upcoming exploits  with the machine and trying to scrounge up a used mono coil or two. 

One thing that kind of looks appealing with this unit and it's capability of self tuning to the coil is the prospect of 3D printing housings and hand wrapping my own coils. 

Looking forward to reading more about this over the 6 month Simon and others.  Until then saving my pocket change.   

            

[Luis]

Not only does the detector seem to be well thought out, even the marketing seems to be very well done.  The amount of expectations there are and not a single video.👏👏

[Steve Herschbach]

ok one last comment before I let it go……

The thing is seven years ago I laid out a challenge for a decent built reasonably priced PI detector for people who frankly are not a lot of the forum members as far as I can tell. If buying a $900 multi or maybe at most a $1200 multi is a stretch for somebody, then these $4000 plus options are out of reach for these people. If I can buy a top notch VLF for $900 -$1200 then in my mind I should be able to get a top notch PI for no more than twice that or $1800 to $2400. I sold detectors and trust me, you talk to a guy with a $700 detector and tell him he needs this $8000 detector and he looks at you like you are insane. I have been and always will advocate for power at affordable prices, and the nature of technology means it is inevitable. I’m just trying to help it along.

I emailed AlgoForce the day I saw this pop up and got a very nice personal response from Ruifeng Huang, or Alex as he asks to be called.  I’m a fan for sure based on the way he thinks he needs to respond to us to give us what we want. Refreshing to say the least. I hope he won’t mind me sharing this tidbit….

”Believe it or not, our E1500 was inspired by your “Under 4 Pound, Under $2000 Gbpi Challenge” about two and a half years ago.”

That is gratifying because that thread was made knowing that it would be seen by every company out there. I’ve been around a long time pushing and shoving and holding my breath until I’m blue in the face to get what I want, and I have learned that consistently expressing my desires in a respectful and logical fashion for long enough does actually make a difference. I’m proud to have moved the needle in the right direction in many small ways, and this is the icing on the cake as far as I am concerned.

So yeah, I’m a fan and I’d be crazy not to get an E1500 after asking for one for seven years and them finally delivering on what I was asking for. A decent performing ergonomic PI at a decent price. That’s not shooting for the moon, it’s just a reasonable request, and I never thought it would take seven years for it to happen. But it has, and I do think we finally have a winner! Now if it prompts other companies to respond with their own offerings, that also was the goal. I believe heart and soul in competition being the way forward and so I hope very much that Nokta, Garrett, Fisher, and yes, Minelab and others decide to play in this game also. Because whoever builds the next $2000 PI will have to build one at least as good or better than the E1500, or why bother? Fully waterproof? Why not? But the bar has been set and the future is bright for affordable PI now more than ever.