Comparing Some Detectors In Trash & Hot Rocks

[Steve Herschbach]

I have too many detectors and am slowly making my way to a "thinning of the herd" this winter. This is a very informal little test I set up today for no purpose other than to see if I can sharpen my opinions about which ones stay and which ones go away. The goal is a general purpose tackle anything I might run into while wandering the hills machine.

Above we have, from left to right, the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 w/10: x 5" DD, Nokta Impact w/11" x 7" DD, Teknetics G2 w/11" x 7" DD, Minelab CTX 3030 with 10" x 5" DD, Makro Gold Racer w/10" x 5" DD, Makro Gold Racer w/10" x 5" concentric, XP Deus HF 10" x 5" DD, XP Deus 11" DD

And below we have a bunch of common ferrous trash on right, including some problematic items like sheet steel, bolts, etc. plus a scattering of hot rocks. There are a couple nickels, couple copper pennies, and a dime placed in the mess, one of the five in the open as a comparison. The stuff is rather randomly scattered with the coins placed so as to be hard to detect but not impossible. I am as much interested in how the hot rocks and trash responds as I am in how the coins respond.

My testing is non-scientific and only intended to help me sort things out for myself, but I can offer a few observations. My criteria are my own, but do include how the detector feels on my arm and how it sounds to my ear. This session is without headphones as I often detect in quiet locations and want a detector with good, loud, clear audio as provided by an external speaker.

The Gold Monster and CTX 3030 are not on the chopping block, but just for more information. The rest are all VLF type detectors and I am trying to sort out which I may be happiest swinging away in locations where I may run into hot rocks or lots of trash, while seeking non-ferrous targets.

Here are some random observations, few of which are new by any means.

1. The Gold Monster excels at pulling non-ferrous items out of the hot rocks. It balances the rocks fairly well in all metal mode but this mix of intense hot rocks can be a little noisy (still way better than most machines). The iron disc setting however just shut the rocks right down and still popped on the coins. Very good. The machine fails however as a detector in dense trash. I can attest that the GM1000 does very well with scattered trash. The dense stuff however is more than the machine can handle. The high frequency helps enhance signals on flat steel in particular plus you get peculiar ghosting effects, weak signals that sound like echos of the stronger signals. So while the Gold Monster is a good nugget detector, even in scattered trash, it is not, in my opinion, a machine for pulling non-ferrous items out of classic "carpet of nails" scenarios, like old burned down cabins.

2. The Nokta Impact does extremely well overall, though the number of settings options are a plus as well as a negative. Lots of possible options to fiddle with. My main gripes are the weight/non-compact design and the odd overload signal. It is tied directly to the volume control. As you advance the volume everything gets louder, including the overload signal, until you hit 8/10ths volume. From there on up the target volume increases but the overload signal volume decreases, until at full target volume you have next to no overload signal. People who go to full volume at all times probably wonder why their detector makes no overload signal. This gets mentioned in the manual but I am sure people miss it. Even at its loudest the overload signal is very faint to my ear. Why do I care? An overload is a quick hint that you have a flat steel item like a can lid or large bolt under the coil. The Impact like other Nokta/Makro machines likes to overload on shallow targets so running sensitivity low in dense trash (39 or lower) can be advisable, and you are not going to lose depth because no machine gets any depth to speak of in dense trash. I do like the ability to adjust the ferrous volume as a separate item in the dense trash.

3. The Teknetics G2, a Gold Bug Pro variant, continues to impress me by being really simple and effective. Best speaker volume of them all, it really bangs out. However, there is no volume control at all so it can be quite the noisy machine in dense trash. 

4. The CTX 3030 is amazing in its ability to just shut the trash up. If flat steel is your problem, the CTX is the answer. Almost quiet as a mouse in the trash. Unfortunately and no surprise, the CTX also suffers the worst from target masking. The CTX is superb if it has room to maneuver, but it goes almost blind in dense trash like this, and is only so-so at best when it comes to finding the targets in the hot rocks.

5. A couple Gold Racers, one early prototype and one late prototype (more or less production). At 56 kHz the Gold Racer handles the ferrous better than I would expect, but it does tend to "light up" flat steel and such and is very prone to overloading in dense trash. Again, sensitivity 39 and lower can really help. Overall however the Gold Racer holds its own with the Impact and G2, especially at picking low conductive items out of the trash. The concentric does seem to help a little with ferrous trash and hot rocks, but not so much as I hoped. No real need for most people to have the concentric coil from what I have seen.

6. The Deus is a wizard in the trash but not by the margin I expect given how popular the machine is. The 11" coil seemed on par with the other machines (the 9" is no doubt better) and the elliptical overall has the edge over all the other options. But only by a little, not a lot. Flat steel and bolts that bother other machines bother the Deus also.

I tried small coils on most of the machines also. They do help getting between the trash but obviously ground coverage suffers also. That being the case I was more interested in what the stock type coils did.

If I was headed for the Sierra Mountains tomorrow and wanted something light to prospect for gold with, and some ability to deal with the ever present ferrous trash left by logging operations, I would grab the Gold Monster. It bangs on gold, handles hot rocks, and can deal with normal random ferrous trash.

If I thought I might bump into an old cabin or camp I wanted to hunt however, it gets to be a hair splitter. For just shutting trash up the CTX is unbeatable, but it also suffers the most from target masking. If you just want a machine that shuts up unless a good target is under the coil, hard to beat, but a lot will get missed also. Good for low to moderate trash levels but in dense trash it is going to suffer, even with a small coil. I will generally stick to parks and beach work with the CTX.

I have and continue to have a hard time loving the Deus, although it is the winner in the densest trash. The external speaker volume is very poor but for me the main problem is simplicity and priorities. I dream a lot about hunting old sites with lots of trash chasing a gold coin, but the fact is it is probably the type of detecting I do least. With apologies to the relic hunters, the stuff most people show on forums like the Dankowski forum would just go in the trash at my house. Gold, silver, and platinum in all forms (nuggets, coins, jewelry), plus coins made of anything else, sums up what I detect for.

If hunting dense trash was something I did constantly the Deus would be a no-brainer, but as rare as it is for me to engage in relic hunting, something like a G2 does nearly as well from what I am seeing, or at least well enough to suit me. I like the idea that if my battery goes dead I just put another battery in the G2 and back in business. No separate charging of coil, controller, and headphone. As much as I like playing with complex detectors when it gets down to my detecting I do prefer simplicity.

The bottom line for the Deus is I was hoping the 14/28/74 kHz elliptical might be as good as a 19 kHz G2 and 45 kHz Gold Monster combined. The Deus has the edge in the dense trash but the Gold Monster has an even bigger edge on the gold nuggets, so having my cake and eating it also all in one detector still involves compromises in real life.

For a different perspective on the Deus HF elliptical coil from a hard core relic hunter see Keith Southern's review.

The GM1000 and CTX 3030 are keepers for different reasons. I have not given up on the Impact and Gold Racer by any means though between those two I still get along best with the Gold Racer for my particular purposes. The Deus is really good at what it does best. The machine that impressed me the most does so by being so simple. The two knob G2 combination of lightweight, excellent ergonomics, loud audio, and simple but effective operation make it very hard for me not to like the machine. It is not "the best" per se but the G2/Gold Bug Pro still hits a certain sweet spot for me personally. For a trip into the hills to prospect for gold but to also hunt a cabin site or old camp, it is a toss up for me at the moment as to which I would grab, the Gold Racer or the G2. Gun to head right this moment, I guess it's G2. Tough call though.

Anyway, that narrowed it down a bit and gives me more directions to pursue going forward as far as what to test and how. I will finish up again by pointing out I am not trying to prove anything to anybody but some of the observations may be helpful to some people - so there you go.

[flakmagnet]

Another great idea for a review and a fun read. You are doing work that most of us cannot, or would not, do even if we had the machines you have acquired, so a big thank you for that. This tendency of yours to write up details about detecting that almost no-one comes up with is one of the many reasons this forum is the best one going.

(I was sort of hoping you'd be unhappy with the 3030 and want to sell it (joke))

[ophirboy]

Thanks for the review Steve

The ghosting you refer to in the GM I have always believed to be the overload response to large , close to the coil ferrous items or foil aluminium cigarette packet liners or similar and I usually ignore them as they are most commonly in the leaf litter on the surface , most other vlf machines normally just keep emitting an annoying over response but the GM cuts it down to a recognisable response that is unlike  anything I can recall in other detectors Iv,e used . It's a shame our soil is so difficult as I would like to own some of the other detectors like the GB however I think I would simply spend most of my time adjusting ground balance and sensitivity to keep up with conditions , however if it,s true that the one who dies with the most toys wins you have the completion beat hands down. 

[Steve Herschbach]

The most frustrating thing for me when doing stuff like this is I keep wanting some detector to really blow me away. Ignore the ferrous stuff and find the good stuff. What gets hammered home instead is how easy it is for a coin on the surface to be rendered invisible by trash or hot rocks in close proximity. At best often all you get is a one way squeak from a certain direction, then nothing from other angles. The good news is that it does mean there are many good finds out the still, but well hidden by surrounding trash. The Deus may be the current pinnacle of the technology or close to it when it comes to finding things in the dense trash, but it is far from perfect and there are plenty of targets it misses also. What edge the Deus does have can be largely negated with other detectors by simply using smaller coils.

For a different perspective on the Deus HF elliptical coil from a hard core relic hunter see Keith Southern's review.

[Glenn in CO]

Great information Steve!

Hopefully individuals that are serious in being successful in detecting various types of sites will use this information and decide if the detector of their choice is the right one to use. Instead of saying this is the best detector to use, consider all these factors and use the best detector that will find what you are looking for.

I believe you created the ultimate Monte's Nail Board test.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Hopefully nobody makes serious decisions based on my casual and sloppy testing! My preference would be that people do their own tests and come to their own conclusions for their purposes. This does highlight a few things for people to examine on their own however. As far as I am concerned the exercise mainly confirms three things that I already thought I knew:

1. Minelab BBS and FBS detectors are renowned for their ability to accurately discriminate high conductive coins (silver) at depth while quieting nearly all ferrous targets. They are also well known to be weak at target separation and prone to target masking. This test confirms that but does not take away from the fact that these are some of the best park and beach detectors made. Just not good in dense ferrous trash.

2. Dedicated nugget detectors like the Gold Monster beat the general purpose detectors if the only goal is detecting small gold nuggets. Yet that same edge on small gold nuggets tends to make them less useful for other types of detecting.

3. When comparing top "do-it-all" VLF machines they are all very close, and getting one to display any real clear edge is often an exercise in hair splitting. In the end I can make good finds with any of them. I therefore often fall back on ergonomics (weight, balance, audio, battery type, controls, display, etc.) as deciding factors when making my personal decisions.

[GB_Amateur]

Always good to hear objective opinions, and find that every detector out there has a few warts.

Your sidebar lists the White's V3i.  Why didn't you include that in this overview?

15 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

...general purpose tackle anything I might run into while wandering the hills machine.

I understand why no Gold Bug 2, but thought the V3i would fit this description.

[Steve Herschbach]

I am sorting things out for myself. The V3i is a keeper so there is nothing in my mind to sort out.

I do not consider the V3i as a wandering the hills type machine personally. Again, people are going way off track if they think this is about anything but me working out what works best for me and how. The V3i is my detector that runs my Bigfoot coil for park and sports field jewelry detecting. The ground balance system is weak compared to many detectors and the target separation is only good at best. Besides, it just strikes me as a machine I prefer to keep as pristine as possible and rolling it down dirt hills and getting tossed in the back of my truck, etc. is not something that it will be doing. The main thing though is the V3i fails the simplicity test. The MXT would fit the bill better.

Machines like the MXT and in this case Impact and CTX also get nicked for being bulky and hard to stuff in a rucksack.

The winners here as far as I am concerned are the Teknetics G2, Makro Gold Racer, and Minelab Gold Monster 1000. All other things being equal I prefer machines that are fairly simple and to the point. I also prefer they not be too expensive and not something I would hate to roll around in the dust and mud. If you set everything else aside my preferred detectors share a certain commonality that is apparent by just looking at them.

The Makro Impact, XP Deus, and yes, even the CTX 3030 are in my questionable column. The CTX is magic in groomed parks and on salt water beaches, but that is another area where my dreams exceed reality. If I was going saltwater beach detecting tomorrow I would be more likely to grab the Garrett ATX as the CTX and when park detecting I prefer to hunt jewelry and would be more likely to grab my V3i or Gold Racer for those purposes.

Right now my core list is:

Minelab GPZ 7000 - Main gold nugget detector
Garrett ATX - Saltwater detecting, backup for GPZ
White's V3i / Bigfoot- Jewelry detecting
Minelab Gold Monster 1000 - Gold nugget detecting
Makro Gold Racer - General purpose detector / jewelry detecting
Teknetics G2 - General purpose exploration detector

Less certain futures:

Minelab CTX 3030
Fisher Gold Bug 2
Nokta Impact
XP Deus

The Gold Bug 2 at the moment I intend on hanging on to just because I have owned one longer than any other detector and it is a classic. Right now I am more inclined to grab the Gold Monster however.

Even the core has weaker and stronger members. At the moment left to my own devices the GPZ, ATX, and GM1000 would account for the vast majority of my detecting hours at this point in time. If I had to shave it to the bone right now the GPZ, ATX, GM1000, and Makro Gold Racer would get me by very well. Ultimately for me it's all about the gold, with coin and relic detecting just something I dabble in if not hunting for gold. My detector choices reflect that. Other people should consider their own priorities when it comes to making detector choices.

[Cabin Fever]

I've been on a mission myself over the last year trying out an embarrassing number of detectors in the search for the perfect few to keep..  I learned like you Steve that most of them are pretty close in performance..  I also learned that someone across the country from me detecting in their "highly minerized ground" was much different then what I experienced in my ground..  Most of my detecting is for old coins in parks and older homes..  The stand out detector for this type of hunting where I live is hands down the Minelab E-Trac or CTX. They have no real competition except maybe the V3i where I live and for the type of hunting I do.  After that you can flip a coin and choose any one of the mid frequency detectors from any of the major brands and and do about the same.   They all fall on their face in my soil after 6" ... I'm sitting on at least 10 detectors right now and desperately want to get down to around 4 or 5 at the most.. Right now my Etrac, Gold Racer and now Monster are the detectors I have no desire to sell. I think I'm going to keep my Macro Racer 2 also because it does well in heavy iron   and is a good nugget shooter too.  It also does slightly better in my ground then the other major brands. What I really need to ad is a PI machine but until I can spend more time nugget hunting I can't justify it yet. My VLFs are finding me gold when I do get the chance to go.

[Steve Herschbach]

The BIG advantage I see in the CTX (E-Trac, Explorer, etc.) is that nearly all these hot single frequency detectors love to call deep modern aluminum as coins. You get this sweet high tone / high VDI number in my ground with most of these machines and up comes a rolled up aluminum beaver tail. It is very hard to beat a Minelab BBS/FBS machine for pure target id accuracy. This can be very important for certain parks, school grounds, etc. where every dig matters and keeping them to a minimum is important.

I pay no attention to results from people back east. Unfortunately the depths seen in white Florida sand or rich loamy far dirt does not translate into results at west coast magnetite laden soils. Except that you can take a lot of east coast results and basically cut the depth in half and be in the ballpark for what I see.

The V3i does do very well also for me at least. I should do more coin hunting with it. But then I always am saying I should coin hunt more and then the gold beckons. I dig tons of coins but it is nearly all accidental by-product to jewelry detecting.