Jump to content

Kruzer Coil Question On Depth And Weight


Recommended Posts

I just got my 11" coil in and it seemed super light. Comparing it to the stock 7x11 that weighs 471g w cover and cable the 11" coil only weighs 492g with cover and cable.

Depth wise the 11" seems almost the same or at least air test I can't really tell.

Did they reduce the amount of copper in the 11"? Tech specs say it should weight 540g.

If anyone has an 11" for their Kruzer or have an Amphibio stock 11 can they post the weight of it? Thinking my coil is out of spec.

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Steve Herschbach changed the title to Kruzer Coil Question On Depth And Weight

Do to the lack of support from Nokta in the past I was forced to return the coil back to the dealer. May cost me 20% but better than being stuck with a piece of junk. I have a suspicion the coil is miss marked. My thoughts is it might had been a Simplex stock coil with the wrong barcode and product number. If that is the case then I fear there are more than just one of these miss marked coils being distributed to customers.

Most people may not know the difference but having the bit of experience under my belt I picked up on something being wrong right away. I am very unhappy how Nokta has been with their customers. As much as I love my Gold Racer and the Multi Kruzer, if I had known service and customer support was going to be like this I would have bought a Deus or Nox. I hope they get their act together as it seems like they are pulling out of the US market with the lack of customer service they have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting....I have not saw anything like that. I do know that the covid  b.s. has caused a lot of stuff being imported in to the country is taking longer due to that. 

 

What was the coil doing that was so bad??

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first unboxed it I noticed it was unusually light for an 11" coil so immediately I did a quick depth test with my 7x11 then installed the 11", reset the factory defaults and put the same gain settings back on and noticed there was no real difference in depth between both coils.

I took it to the local park and numbers weren't all that consistent, even clad was a bit jumpy. I dropped the gain down to try to stabilize it and it had little effect.

Previously to purchase back in May I had asked Nokta the weights on the coil as I didn't want to buy a boat anchor. Months ago they returned my message that the AF28 weighs in at 540g. With that bit of info I tossed my 7x11 on the scale and it came in at 471g then the 11" and it weighed in at 492g.

Like I mentioned I believe the coil is actually a Simplex stock coil but miss labeled. I think it is an easy mistake but not good for the Kruzer customers that want to upgrade. I can't imagine how many of the wrong coils there are out there and it is unfortunate as the customers will be getting a seriously missmatched coil and have no performance gain on upgrade.

The dealer will hopefully clarify this and notify Nokta and maybe Nokta might do the right thing and do a replacement to those that had purchased the bad coils.

I have an email out to the GA tech center and the main tech support on a previous question and it still goes unanswered. I had to do an RMA on the coil with the dealer in this case because I do not want to get stuck with the coil and only have a 30 day window. Nokta support has been horrible and I can't blame the virus as emails can be answered off a Lazboy on a laptop. No excuse for lack of corresponance with their loyal customers. If they seriously want to survive in this competitive market they really need to pay attention to their qc and customers. Dumping faulty equipment out and ignoring customers is a easy way to kill a business.

So my advice on this if your looking at the 11" coil you may want to go for the 13" as that is unique size to the Kruzer and Amphibio line.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kac, mine weighs in at 490g, I'm not having any depth issues at the moment. Maybe the newer 11'' coils are lighter and they just didn't upgrade the spec sheet or maybe the old spec was a typo. maybe the coil is bad like my old one was. I wish i weighed my old one but its to late.  Good luck with the next one.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If someone has a simplex, could they weigh the coil?

Depth of an 11" coil should be noticeably deeper than a 7" coil with the same gain settings. That is a big red flag for me that something is wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there is a thing as bad coils. I have one coming this saturday but it would be a couple of days before I could give you any test results on performance. I am very please with the Kruzer so far.

 

I saw on youtube a fellow say that the 11 anfibio coil put on the Kruzer was a deeper combo than the anfibio with the 11 coil on it.

Has anyone heard this?

 

I no longer have an anfibio. The anfibio is a great unit but the shaft is just way too heavy. I love the weight of the kruzer and it has enough settings to keep me happy.

 

I have the 9.5x5 elliptical on the Kruzer currently. Man is it a great combo for getting around tight spaces. About the best size I have ever had for that.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2020 at 11:00 AM, kac said:

I just got my 11" coil in and it seemed super light. Comparing it to the stock 7x11 that weighs 471g w cover and cable the 11" coil only weighs 492g with cover and cable.

Depth wise the 11" seems almost the same or at least air test I can't really tell.

Did they reduce the amount of copper in the 11"? Tech specs say it should weight 540g.

Sounded like a fun calculation -- ratio of weights of copper for two different coils.  Now, I made a lot of assumptions and I don't know how good those are, so please keep that in mind.

Assumptions:  mono coils (already inaccurate for IB/VLF search coils), typical simple winding (as opposed to the fancy spiral windings now available on some more recent PI coils), same wire size used in both coils' windings, same electromagnetic inductance (I think this is a requirement for properly tuned detector-coil configuration), 7"x11" coil is a true ellipse (calculation probably insensitive to this assumption if it's anything close) and 11" coil is a true circle (ditto).  The assumption that the wire used is identical (other than length) may be the biggest weakness of this simple comparison.

The loosest approximation says the ratio of copper weights is (smaller coil divided by larger coil) equal to the square-root of ratio of smaller coil perimeter dimension to larger coil perimeter dimension.  For the two coils you quote (and assuming dimensions quoted are of the actual copper coils, not the enclosures/housings) it comes out to 0.91.  A better approximation includes some sqaure-roots of natural logarithms of functions that depend upon the actual wire used, but that's a weak dependency so the expected weight ratio then comes out to be ~0.92 for coil wire guages in the ~20-32 AWG size.

Now, how much does this help you?  The weight of the housing (and coil covers if included) are also going to contribute, and not in such an easily calculable way.  Throw in the possible flaws in the assumptions (e.g. mono coil vs. DD or concentric coil) and I'm thinking "not so much".

I wonder if measuring the inductances of the coils (two for each searchcoil) would help?  I.e. should they match?  (For mono coils as mentioned, I think the answer is 'yes' but I don't know if that carries over to concentric or DD coils.)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I got in tough with the GA suport guy though he had very little knowledge on the weight and performance of the coils and had no knowledge of any spec changes since May. He also stated that there is no way the windings of a Simplex would be at all compatible with the Kruzer or Amphibio machines.

He did argue that air test or ground test won't dictate the depth of a coil which makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Here is why I say that. Of the machines I have and the coil versions I have when the width of a dd coil is larger on the same machine the wider coil will ALWAYS have more depth. There are times wider coils can be counter productive especially in high mineralization. It is completely pointless to argue or make a 11" wide coil that will have the same depth as a 7" wide coil. Either there is a design flaw in the updated design OR Nokta is selling a sub par upgrade to the Kruzer users. I consider the current 11" coil to be a piece of junk and a waste of money. I have enough experience to know when something is not right and do not like how this issue is being shrugged off.

I don't regret my Multi Kruzer purchase nor my recent Gold Racer purchase but seeing how a company has turned leaves me with little confidence in my purchases. Would I buy another Nokta machine? Highly unlikely.

I am still waiting on information about wireless compatibility of my Makro headphones and the Gold Racer that ON THE BOX INDICATES IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE HEADPHONES I HAVE. Yet there is no way of connecting them. There IS NO INTERNAL WIRELESS TRANSMITTER. THERE IS NO PORT FOR A WIRELESS DONGLE. THERE IS NO LONGER A WIRELESS DONGLE AVAILABLE. I was told th EZ Wander is not the option for this. I am really curious on how this gets resolved.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By Rick N. MI
      I used the:
      Equinox 800 w/ 6" coil Park 2, Sensitivity 23, 2 tone, Iron Bias f2 0, Recovery 4
      Xp Orx w/ 9" hf coil, 4 tone, Sensitivity 96, recovery 2
      Gold Kruzer 4x7.5 coil, Deep mode, Sensitivity 80
      I wanted to see how well these detectors did in no emi area at a low mineral sandy beach with a 0.89 gram 14k gold ring buried at a measured 9". I was very impressed with the results.
      The Equinox 800 w/ 6" coil and the XP Opx w/ 9" hf coil hit all the way around with the coil lifted 3"-4".
      The Gold Kruzer w/ 4x7.5 coil hit it one way w/ coil raised 2"-3". The other was a weak signal harder to get. I was happy with that. I didn't bring the 5x9.5 coil. I'm sure it would have done better.
      Over all I was happy with the results. The Equinox 800 w/ 6" coil did really good. Equal with the Xp Orx w/ 9" hf coil. The Xp Orx hit the ring very well at 31 khz and 54 khz.
    • By Rick N. MI
      I'm going to use Deep mode, sensitivity 80-90 and disc 0.
      By using disc 0 the Gold Kruzer is able to get an air test on my 10k white gold earring at about 3" both ways. I don't understand why increasing disc to 22, which disc out nails, will not hit the gold earring very well. The earring id bounces around 20-45. It seems like it should hit it ok with disc raised. Even disc at 19 doesn't hit good. As the disc is lowed it's only gets slightly better. 0 disc hits best. Deep mode hits it better than all metal. The Deep mode hits it hard and all metal is very quiet hit in air test, maybe 1.5-2". Micro mode has to be almost touching to hit.
      So I'm going out with disc at 0 and see how I do. My thinking is I won't miss much gold.
      Didn't do very well this last summer. No gold. Got 2 silver earrings with the Equinox 800 and 6" coil for the summer. Northern Michigan is tough detecting.
    • By bigtim1973
      Received my AF28 coil in and put it on my kruzer.
      I started out in 3 tone because that is what I would have normally ran anyway but, that was before I tried it out. 
      No more 3 tone for me.
      I have the Fe tone set at 2 and sensitivity set to 85 and in the standard 15khz freq for starters.
      Separation is very good with this machine with set up of the settings with this coil.  I am very satisfied with it. It has about the same ability to separate as the smaller 9.5x5 DD coil. Very impressed. 
      But moving on with the 11 inch coil,  I discovered a quirk when running the coil over a the 7 inch dime and 11 inch nickel while in 3 tone. The machine did not want to hit on the deeper coins. It would try to null out. I cranked the sensitivity up to about 93 and although it would respond to something being in the hole, the ID for both coins were off.  I was starting to get disappointed.
      I then swapped freq to 5 and then to 19 as well and was getting similar results. 
      So I tried it in 2 tone and whammo....it nailed the deeper coins in all 3 frequencies with the sensitivity turned way down as well. Then I tried 4 tone and the same thing happened. The machine responded very well with the deep coins too. 
      Very happy now.
      But I can see if someone got this coil and tried to test it just in 3 tones how someone could get discouraged with the set up. 
      I have read a lot about 3 tone with the multi kruzer and leaving the sensitivity down below 90 because it you are supposed to be able to get more target information and signal analysis while the Kruzer is in 3 tone. 
      I found that advice to be total bull$hix. 
      anyways, if you want more depth with a kruzer with the 11 inch coil with multi tones your gonna have to run in 2 tone or 4 tone because 3 tone is not going to cut it.

      Anfibio / Kruzer - Waterproof DD Search Coil - 28 cm / 11" (AF28)
      Part Number : 20000825
      Description : Anfibio / Kruzer - Waterproof DD Search Coil
      Size : 28 cm / 11"
      Includes coil cover and coil mounting hardware. Price $159.00 Website link
    • By Shakir
      Hello everybody,
      I want to build my own large coil (just exactly as GOLD KRUZER GK40 COIL) as I can’t get a new one in my area for certain reasons. Can anyone here help providing:
      1- how many turns in RX & TX?
      2- size of wire used in both dd coils?
      3- the way the wires and shields wires are connected at the bottom and in the connector pins?
      (the last point confused me, couldnt figure out how they connected those wire!!)
      appreciate your guide and help.
       
    • By dogodog
      I started out the day on a high note by detecting an old farm that I found a Rosie and a merc on a previous outing. First good signals were some 22 casings. I then got into some 1970's pennies and hit a bunch of wheaties, The oldest was a 1919 pretty good I thought. Next up was a kids silver plate bracelet. Was hoping for better but it was not to be. After about 45 min. of trash I stumbled on an odd 1 3/4'' copper piece. This is very unique and I have no clue what it was. Last but not least was a 1943 p nickle, my first of this date. I thought it was an odd silver but seeing the delamination on the surface, my hopes were dashed.This nickel was at the 10'' mark.
      Now for the bad part !!!!
      On my way back home I decided to try and get permission for another old farmstead. This property is having a new house built on it and I figured why not. There were some drywall guy's there who did not speak english, so I decided to look at the old barn before I departed. The first sign you are in trouble is when a black cat tears ass out of the barn and almost hits you.  I should have realized I was headed for problems. Anyhow I decided to leave, Jumped in my big truck, pulled foward and into a 3 foot ditch I failed to see. After stacking about a ton of stone under my passenger tire I got out. But It will cost me a new bumper $350, Brackets $52, and possibly a new fender $400 + paint. I'm not sure my finds will cover my stupidity!!!
      My wifes thoughts were, Glad it wasn't me. You would have bitched for days about my bad driving. Sometime's dumb catches up with all of us.
      Damn Black Cat !!!!!!







    • By kac
      So sounds like the Gold Kruzer has a normalized id system? I thought it would put aluminum up higher than nickels or gold.
×
×
  • Create New...