Minelab GPX 6000 With Geo Sense Pulse Induction

[jasong]

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

I wonder though how no threshold at all would work for a high end detector. 

I'm not sure they are getting rid of the background threshold, or maybe making it easier to run a lower threshold or without one if a person chooses, or just adding more control with timings that means you can find the balance between threshold levels of EMI, ground, and targets more precisely and do whatever you want with the background drone we call "threshold" in general. It's really hard to make sense of patent legalese exactly. 

But it does work on a high end detector -  I run my GPZ with almost no threshold so that 95% of what I'm hearing are just the tiny variations which are either EMI/ground noise that jump barely above my threshold level, or good targets. I bump the threshold up just barely above silent though so I still hear the faint background warbles, just not the needless (in my opinion) constant threshold drone. I do pretty good with this style. I see no reason to listen to ground noise personally, my eyes do much better there.

This is one reason I liked the 8" X Coil. I could bump up the threshold 8 points and still maintain a nice quiet stability I'm used to. Whcih means to me the coil has a lower noise floor, smaller target signals come through, and I can also run higher gains as a result. Same idea as this invention it sounds like to me.

The perfect detector would make no noise at all except on a good target. EMI and ground would be completely silent, this there would be no need to listen to a constant threshold drone if you had enough control finesse to keep the threshold at the perfect balance between EMI/ground noise not coming through, and targets coming through which are above that noise floor.

If I'm understanding this patent right, it attempts to embody this sort of detecting theory and allow users further control over it. 

Bruce Candy has another recent patent too (this one is Wahlrich) which sounds potentially like a new GPZ. But that patent lost me halfway through, it's a difficult read. But it's main focus is on a method to ignore the X component and start sampling way earlier, which means sensitivity to ultra tiny gold among other things. I could be misunderstanding that one too though since it kinda sounds like a PI/constant current hybrid and I'm still not sure I understand if ZVT is different than that or not haha. Detector tech is growing beyond my brain's ability to grasp it these days.

[jasong]

I'm not doing the best job explaining and using the term "threshold" too generally. They may or may not be making a threshold-less detector, I'm not sure. But the invention deals with this idea:

A certain spot has X amount of EMI. Anything above that dB level is generally not EMI. Call it an EMI threshold level.

A certain spot has Y amount of ground noise. Anything above that db level is generally not ground noise. Call it a ground threshold level.

A given target has Z signal level at a given depth. Call it the target threshold level.

The detector itself has a threshold which we call "the" threshold. So, there are 3 threshold levels - X, Y, and Z, and then the general threshold tone of the detector which ideally should be set right below Z and right above X and Y. Any signal which is stronger than the detector threshold gives us an audible signal, and will likely be a target now. A higher threshold seems to serve no purpose since it just adds noise to mask targets now.

The invention deals with "channels" (timings?) that allow a user to hone in to the spot where both the EMI threshold level and ground threshold level are nulled out to silent, while the target threshold level is still audible. Wether the general detector threshold itself is audible or not still, I have no clue. Technically speaking, a user would not need an audible threshold at that point though, hence my speculation. But it's not simply adjusting a threshold knob, it sounds like selecting various channels that are better/worse in differing combination at nulling ground and EMI noise, while also maximizing target response. Channel 1 might be bad at ground nulling but good at EMI nulling, and great at target sensitivity. Channel 2 might be just the opposite. Channel 3 might be a combo between nulling ground and EMI. And so on...which is why I said it sounds more like timings.

It's specific to your location, tailoring settings and finding the right channel or "zone" to maxmize target sensitivity, which is why I wondered if Geosense might be related to this idea. But again, no idea.

Then there is the computer automation of the sensitivity, ground settings, and maybe detector threshold as well, which is a seperate thing. And then the idea with depth sensing/discrim and further signal processing to eliminate noise, which is also seems to eventually lead to operating with no machine threshold as an endgame in my view. But that's just a guess obviously.

These could be employed in the 6000, or maybe not for another 5 years in whatever future machine, impossible to say really. But interesting anyways since it seems to indicate the way ML is going with gold machines.

[jasong]

A thought just occured to me while driving out detecting today and realizing I forgot to charge my battery. Since Minelab engineers read this, maybe it's not too late to include in a 6000. 🙂

Could you get rid of the battery charger for all future detectors and just make them like phones that can charge by plugging into a standard USB C port? That would make it so so convenient since we all usually have a cable laying around somewhere anyways.

Or if its too late, can you manufacture a little adapter that goes from battery connector to USB-C? 

 

 

[mn90403]

We all have them in our cars now too so you are never without a charging source.

I have one of the car starters/usb quick charge batteries that I can charge something with my car off.  Chet uses solar.

[Chase Goldman]

2 hours ago, jasong said:

A thought just occured to me while driving out detecting today and realizing I forgot to charge my battery. Since Minelab engineers read this, maybe it's not too late to include in a 6000. 🙂

Could you get rid of the battery charger for all future detectors and just make them like phones that can charge by plugging into a standard USB C port? That would make it so so convenient since we all usually have a cable laying around somewhere anyways.

Or if its too late, can you manufacture a little adapter that goes from battery connector to USB-C? 

 

 

I've switched to an alternate power source for the GPX that allows for AC or DC charge source (Doc's screamer).  Even with the ML batteries, I always brought my 12 VDC cigarette lighter adapter charge cable with me just in case.  But with variable voltage and wattage charging available using USB-C Power Delivery, I agree that a modern charging scheme that utilizes the ubiquitous USB-C PD charge banks on the go would make sense for a 2021 detector design.

[jasong]

Well I talked to a person who might know such things (or might not) told me they know what Geosense and the 6000 is, and they said my expectations are too high. 🙂

Valentines day release in the US likely (Sunday? Seems odd). $6000 also most likely. Coil cable goes up the shaft or can use old style wrap around.

Also, a 3rd player in the GPZ coil market has already made coils, probably enter the market soon. Slightly smaller than 12" first release, not elliptical. 

Also, a new GPZ is in the works. With one new in demand feature. 

Tales from the rumor mill. Take with as many grains of salt as necessary. I wasn't told to keep any of this secret, so it's either false or not tightly held. 

 

[jasong]

Take this stuff with a heavy grain of salt. I don't know this person too well, they coulda been hoping I'd post misinformation online for all I know. 😄

[Nevada Brian]

3 hours ago, jasong said:

Well I talked to a person who might know such things (or might not) told me they know what Geosense and the 6000 is, and they said my expectations are too high. 🙂

Valentines day release in the US likely. $6000 also most likely. Coil cable goes up the shaft or can use old style wrap around.

Also, a 3rd player in the GPZ coil market has already made coils, probably enter the market soon. Slightly smaller than 12" first release, not elliptical. 

Also, a new GPZ is in the works. With one new in demand feature. 

Tales from the rumor mill. Take with as many grains of salt as necessary. I wasn't told to keep any of this secret, so it's either false or not tightly held. 

 

My guess is Coiltek will be producing coils for the GPZ. They have been stating on Facebook that they have a new product coming very soon.   Time will tell!

Brian. 

[VicR]

Following on from Jasong's excellent post on Minelabs patents -  If Australian Patent No. 2020203297 issued on the 20th May 2020 is for the GPX6000 then possibly GEO-Sense is a combining of RX Gain and Soil Timings into one function as stated below.

"Figure 2 depicts a single knob to control the sensitivity of a metal detector and the amount of soil cancellation from receive signals of a metal detector. When turned to one extreme (for example to the left most), the effective sensitivity of the metal detector is at the lowest; and when turned to an opposite extreme (for example to the right most), the effective sensitivity of the metal detector is at the highest. At the same time, the amount of soil cancellation is at its highest when the knob is turned to left most; and at its lowest when the knob is turned to the right most. "

As stated by Minelab the 6000 will have "ease of use technology" which is what Geo- sense will be. If Minelab are smart they will have Geo - Sense as an option thereby still allowing manual control of RX Gain and Soil Timings. This will keep the purists happy and people who are willing to let the science figure out the optimal machine setting can use Geo Sense.

Also discussed was "soil cancelling composite channels" and ways to limit EMI. Again get that noisy ground quiet making the machine easier to use on difficult ground.

The questions in my mind are if you have been able to master tuning the 5000 to the soil conditions you detect on will the 6000 in Geo Sense mode find you more gold? The 6000 looks like it will be significantly different to the 5000 but will it be a 7000 beater?

One thing i am sure of - there will be pages of discussion and many You Tube clips on this subject next year.

[VicR]

& Minelab's Australian Trade Mark for GPX6000 has been upgraded to Acceptance Advertised status.

Happy New Year.