Who Makes The X-coils? Who Sells Them?

[Reg Wilson]

While the standard of Minelab coils have been quite good up till the GPZ19", it has been the exception. Remember that when the GPZ first came on the market with its 14" coil we were promised a larger, lighter coil, and what we eventually got was over rated, over priced and definitely over weight. 

I can't imagine that Minelab will sell too many of those 'woofers' now, and for that they only have themselves to blame.

[Norvic]

As most private individuals who have X coils have said on this forum, the X coils we have are not knock sensitive, handle the ground conditions we use them under and are very good gold producers, as well as/ or better then MLs coils. Their sizes are what we sought, the 15X I have being the only one close to MLs 14" is a slight bit heavier but it is a fair bit larger, refer to photo on my 15 & 12 thread. The only con I`ve found so far is it sucks having to make a patch lead. It is obvious to me from their performance the fellow making them knows what he`s on about no doubt, and for a "backyard" operation to show up ML in the coil department says it all. 

I am sorry Steve if standing my ground on this causes you some grief but it is time. 

 

[phoenix]

1 hour ago, mn90403 said:

I know for a fact that Minelab knows about this forum and this thread among others.  I sent the sales department an email about this discussion as a loyal Minelab owner.  I want them to know and respond.  That was two weeks ago and there has only been more conjecture but no response from anyone at Minelab

Yeh, that was why I started that "I don`t understand what Minelab is doing" thread.   Minelab has never been big on giving out information, but with this coil thing it seems like Minelab is making a point by not saying anything.             I still do not understand ☹️

[jasong]

That's a good post JP.

2 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

• The coils are electronically inferior to the standards set by Minelab when they established the design parameters of the coils for the GPZ, I’ve used those same testing techniques when I’ve tested the X coils and gave feedback accordingly. This is FACT and NOT agenda driven.
• Secondly there is the major issue I have with the circumvention of Minelabs IP.

A couple general interest questions here - are these standards set by Minelab something you can share so we can have an idea which standards they haven't met?  If confidential, does falling short of these standards mean the coils are measurably different from a coil which complies with the standards? Or are the standards mostly related to quality control issues, something like FCC regulatory issues, and not performance issues?

I'm curious because I've worked in engineering and standards can be relative in the engineering world and don't necessarily mean a product has a flaw. But in other cases that can be exactly what it means. In engineering specs are often derated, like a rope/cable may support 2x it's rated weight, etc. Or the way Intel derates various chips of the same design from the same wafer depending on the frequency it fails at. I'm just trying to understand better what you mean by the standards not being met.

Is the issue with IP related to the chip patch or is the DOD design being used in the X Coil the issue? 

 

[flakmagnet]

JP that is about as well-said as anyone could wish for. Thank you for taking the time.

[madtuna]

I'll try it and If it scores me more gold be it because of size, placebo or what ever I'll use it. If it doesn't work I'll go back to the stock ML coils including the 19" which I had good success with.

I don't give a fig who makes it and who sells it, I just care if it scores me more gold as that is how I earn my income.

I'm still trying to get my head around the moral side of things? What's the big difference between using after market coils on any other machine? Nobody is altering the ML chip or counterfieting it and infact still using it.

We put after market chips in cars, computers and any number of other gadgets, we alter crap every day to make things work better that the way they come off the factory floor.

How come we suffer moral outrage about somethings and not others.

[araratgold]

33 minutes ago, madtuna said:

I'll try it and If it scores me more gold be it because of size, placebo or what ever I'll use it. If it doesn't work I'll go back to the stock ML coils including the 19" which I had good success with.

I don't give a fig who makes it and who sells it, I just care if it scores me more gold as that is how I earn my income.

I'm still trying to get my head around the moral side of things? What's the big difference between using after market coils on any other machine? Nobody is altering the ML chip or counterfieting it and infact still using it.

We put after market chips in cars, computers and any number of other gadgets, we alter crap every day to make things work better that the way they come off the factory floor.

How come we suffer moral outrage about somethings and not others.

You nailed it Steve. We alter things every day, such as the diesel tuning chip and modified suspension that I have added to my Triton.

We are not making fake copies of the GPZ, just altering it slightly to allow another brand of coil to run. 

The thing is, despite all the protestations, these Russian jobbies work, and they work well. I have already pulled numerous bits from my " dead " patches just with the 17 inch. I have had none of the " problems " that are supposed to plague these coils.

We now have choices, and that is what makes us all happy ! ?

Can't wait to see what the " big bertha " 22x21 can do, when it arrives " from Russia with love " !!  ?

Cheers, Rick

 

[Andyy]

5 hours ago, jasong said:

I'm curious because I've worked in engineering and standards can be relative in the engineering world and don't necessarily mean a product has a flaw.

Exactly.  Of course it is not going to meet Minelab standards.  I am also stuck in this engineering world where "standards" are considered a holy grail word to use.  Every company will have it's own design and test standards, Including this Russian maker.  When a new company starts out, this is usually all that they have.  Then they start building in quality standards, hopefully safety standards, and the list goes on. 

But to JP's point, testing and quality standards are extremely important.  For TV's, this would be drop tests, vibration tests, thermal cycling.  For smaller electrical components it might be a resistance test, HIPOT test, etc.  When you have one person doing it, the risk is less in my experience.  But if this Russian builder were to get a building and hire some people on an assembly line, I would be very afraid.  Quality is usually the first thing to go.  For now, this Russian guy is testing the waters.  He doesn't know if he has a great product.  He is probably looking for an investor.  It will be curious to see where this goes.

But isn't funny that this one Russian was able to do what Minelab engineers have been just trying so... so hard to do for like 4 or 5 years, now?  No, Minelab knows exactly how to make a smaller coil.  They just don't want to, yet.  So the Russian is first to market.  That is a big deal in any industry.

[Norvic]

MT, your 19 & 14 as good as they are will become redundant, in a few months I suspect the negatives towards the X coils will fall away in history, what I also suspect there will be other aftermarket manufactures following in X coils footprints. Maybe even ML will reverse engineer the X coils too, but no holding breaths on that happening.