New Simplex Or Used F75?

[mh9162013]

18 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Some people are clueless though, you put two products in front of them one with a high price and even though the box clearly shows it's a far worse product than the cheaper one people will buy it because it is the more expensive one.

That's very true. But the only real way to combat what you described is to educate them. But many people don't want to be educated (or don't even realize they need to be). And the companies like this, because it makes it easier to market to them.

Whether you're Minelab or First Texas, you want your consumers to be on a need-to-know basis.

[☠ Cipher]

10 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

 

This forum is definitely not a good representation of the typical metal detector customer. The level of knowledge, experience and expertise from most users here is incredible and certainly seasoned veterans outnumber the greenhorns.

This is very true. For new people, if they seek any advice, they usually turn to Facebook I’m noticing. Simplex and Vanquish are the two that I see most often recommended on those pages, with some others peppered in there as well. For those that want a metal detector in their hands immediately and know nothing about dealers etc., they look to dept stores and that’s where youll find a lot of low end FTP models as often the only options. In my neck of the woods it’s either Bounty Hunter at Dicks or Harbor Freight has the 9-function model, which eats some low end lunch from Bounty Hunter.
 

The one dealer near me has only started to really pick up on modern methods of self promotion recently. He started out as an exclusively Whites dealer decades ago, and raging fanboy for the product line. He still carried them up to their final days, but over the last several years he could no longer ignore changes in the industry. Someone put an XP Deus in his hands, then an Equinox, and the rest is history. He’s been a multi-line dealer since. He will only carry XP, Minelab, Garrett and Nokta Makro because he can’t sell anything else. 
 

I will say that FTP had a Simplex before the Simplex was the Simplex. The Bounty Hunter Land Ranger Pro is a damn good machine by almost anyone’s standards. Quite a bit more powerful than it was initially advertised, deep and lightening fast. Even has features Simplex doesn’t like full scale individual vdi notching and adjustable tone breaks. It was so good and popular among newbies and on TreasureNet that FT gave it a makeover and moved it up the Teknetics line right under the Patriot. If it were waterproof and wireless I’d have a very hard time making a recommendation between it and Simplex. But it began to die down in popularity as they refused to acknowledge and fix a growing issue with early pinpoint button failures. Then the used market became flooded with good options after equinox launched. Still, fix that button, waterproof it, give it wireless audio, and it would give Simplex a run for its money. 

[mh9162013]

41 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

He will only carry XP, Minelab, Garrett and Nokta Makro because he can’t sell anything else. 

Why can't he sell anything else? Fisher Research Labs sells plenty of high quality detectors.

[☠ Cipher]

18 minutes ago, mh9162013 said:

Why can't he sell anything else? Fisher Research Labs sells plenty of high quality detectors.

I can’t speak for every dealer of course, but usually the customer base Bob has is either experienced and engaged, or under the tutelage of someone experienced and engaged. Experienced and engaged people generally are looking for features or a combination of features that you may find spread out across a product line, but not usually in one machine. Waterproof, wireless, multifrequency and/or multiple selectable frequencies, light and portable, updatable software. Fisher has some of these features, but spread out across the product line, and others haven’t so far been embraced. Everyone makes or has made a good single frequency dry land machine. It’s now down to features that enhance user experience and offering a range of frequencies has made do it all machines more effective and versatile. 

[phrunt]

Case in point, First Texas just don't seem to have an innovative bone in their body anymore.

The Fisher Gold Bug 2 is potentially the most famous VLF gold detector of all time, it was great.  I believe it was released in 1995, I could be wrong by a year or two either way and I can't be bothered looking it up as it makes no difference, either way it's damn old and been on the market ever since.

Now, not so many people use them anymore, they're still good but lack the features of modern detectors, and many get sick of constantly having to fiddle with the ground balance knob to keep it in tune where as modern detectors do that automatically or with a simple ground grab.

Recently Fisher decided it was fine time after 20+ years to update the model, they could have taken the gold prospecting VLF users by storm had they really upgraded it to a current detector, instead they removed some knobs and replaced them with push buttons, added a little screen onto it to make it look more modern but the screen itself is pretty pointless and will just lower the battery time for no real reason, it also moves knobs around to fit the screen into less convenient locations.  They basically made the new variant, nay paint job of it worse than if they'd just left it alone.

Where is the wireless audio? The ground tracking or ground grab? Where are all the common features on the competitors detectors that First Texas just don't seem capable of doing.  If they rebuilt it from the ground up and made it the modern detector many of the VLF prospecting detector owners would be in a line to buy one, now with this mash up of a detector they'll be looking to buy an older model if they want one second hand.

See here

It's actually quite annoying as I liked some of the First Texas detectors but they're just being left in the dust behind the other brands.  I'm seeing the writing on the wall for them, at the moment all they can sell is entry level detectors in department stores, but that market is going to be eaten into by all the other brands.   I called Tesoro, I called Whites, now I'm calling FT.  Sure the other two were obvious, but to me FT is obvious.

[Mike_Hillis]

My first metal detector was a Bounty Hunter Tracker IV.   I had a gift card for Dicks Sporting Goods at the end of 2003 and after I got the new reel I wanted I was browsing to see what else I could use the remaining balance for, I happened upon the metal detectors.

The BH Tracker IV intrigued me, and fit the remaining balance on my card.   Only they were out of stock, and after a month I got tired of waiting and used up my card balance on more fishing stuff.

Only I was still intrigued with the detector and bought me one from Kellyco.  99.00 shipped with extras in January of 2004.   Turned out to be the start of an obsession that is still with me today, and my jumping off point into treasure hunting.

The Tracker IV is a great detector for what it is, and knowing what I know now, for my urban situation, I would still have chosen it to start this journey on, and it is a very capable detector if you understand and work it within its parameters.   I still like using it even today.

guess what I am saying is that without the By Tracker IV I might have never gotten into this.

low end models have there place and purpose.

HH 

Mike

[F350Platinum]

The internet in general is no help either, I bought a Garrett Ace 400 as a result of a lot of searching for the best detector in my price range. It wasn't until I walked into a real metal detector shop that someone took pity on me and highly recommended the Equinox. He is a very honest and experienced detectorist who also sells detectors. The Ace found a lot of stuff, but was quite frustrating. I can tune the Equinox down to quiet and pretty much know exactly what I am going to dig.

[kac]

First off ran out of like....

I always wondered what is the percentage of sales of detector that go to new people first timers and people that have been in the game for a while.

I have a hunch that the bulk of machines sold especially the mid and high priced are sold to existing detectorists and the prices and features are geared to the experienced user. I also think that the experienced detectorists are less likely to buy machines when the price is too low and tend to spend more than they did previously.

There is also the referral factor where in some cases newcomers buy based off a buddies recommendation and often are in over their heads learning the more complex machines.

[phrunt]

I felt a bit over my head with the CTX for a few days, took me a bit to get used to it and even though it's got fantastic target ID's I wouldn't tell a beginner to buy it.  The Nox I took to like a fish to water, it was so easy and with it's very accurate target ID's it is easier to use than my Ace 350 because of that... It can easily be used as a turn on and go detector and for most that's probably all they need to do, specify if they're in a park, beach or field and start detecting, yes the beach too, and in the water, something a lot of detectors to this day on the market are just not good at.

Whenever someone new speaks to me about what detector to get I go straight to the Nox and Vanquish, why? because they can use it anywhere, they have really good ID's which means someone new can just go cherry pick coins, they'll then find out the joyous side of the hobby and can expand from there digging other stuff as they form more patience and an understanding of the hobby.  

The other thing that makes a detector easy to use for someone new is not having to deal with EMI, EMI prone detectors are very difficult for a beginner and I suspect many go back to the store they bought it from thinking it's faulty, I did that with my Ace 350 when I first got it, it was going off in my backyard all over the place including in the air so I concluded it must be faulty 🙂

To me, as someone that was a beginner not too long ago myself the most important things to a beginner are ease of use (being able to understand the menu system and what the screen is telling you), accurate Target ID's and EMI resistance.

These detectors on the market aimed at beginners with 4 target ID segments are going to scare more beginners off the hobby than get them into it, why make beginners spend all that time digging junk and random targets when they could cherry pick modern coins using the target ID's on another detector and really start to enjoy themselves and do well quite quickly.

The Simplex is giving people a lot of bang for their buck, but it's target ID's just don't cut it for me so even though it's priced great and full of features I'd not tell some local person that asked me what detector to buy for a beginner to buy it.

And detectors like the T2/F75 are just what we in NZ call mutton dressed as lamb.  Old worn out things priced and marketed as if they're modern top of the line market leading detectors, usually it's talking about older ladies all dressed up in skimpy clothes trying to pretend they're young again 🙂

A majority of the beginner detectors on the market I would not tell a beginner to buy as it will just waste space in their cupboard.  They're better off buying a detector they'll enjoy using and actually use it.

[F350Platinum]

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

I felt a bit over my head with the CTX for a few days, took me a bit to get used to it and even though it's got fantastic target ID's I wouldn't tell a beginner to buy it.  The Nox I took to like a fish to water, it was so easy and with it's very accurate target ID's it is easier to use than my Ace 350 because of that... It can easily be used as a turn on and go detector and for most that's probably all they need to do, specify if they're in a park, beach or field and start detecting, yes the beach too, and in the water, something a lot of detectors to this day on the market are just not good at.

Whenever someone new speaks to me about what detector to get I go straight to the Nox and Vanquish, why? because they can use it anywhere, they have really good ID's which means someone new can just go cherry pick coins, they'll then find out the joyous side of the hobby and can expand from there digging other stuff as they form more patience and an understanding of the hobby.  

The other thing that makes a detector easy to use for someone new is not having to deal with EMI, EMI prone detectors are very difficult for a beginner and I suspect many go back to the store they bought it from thinking it's faulty, I did that with my Ace 350 when I first got it, it was going off in my backyard all over the place including in the air so I concluded it must be faulty 🙂

To me, as someone that was a beginner not too long ago myself the most important things to a beginner are ease of use (being able to understand the menu system and what the screen is telling you), accurate Target ID's and EMI resistance.

These detectors on the market aimed at beginners with 4 target ID segments are going to scare more beginners off the hobby than get them into it, why make beginners spend all that time digging junk and random targets when they could cherry pick modern coins using the target ID's on another detector and really start to enjoy themselves and do well quite quickly.

The Simplex is giving people a lot of bang for their buck, but it's target ID's just don't cut it for me so even though it's priced great and full of features I'd not tell some local person that asked me what detector to buy for a beginner to buy it.

And detectors like the T2/F75 are just what we in NZ call mutton dressed as lamb.  Old worn out things priced and marketed as if they're modern top of the line market leading detectors, usually it's talking about older ladies all dressed up in skimpy clothes trying to pretend they're young again 🙂

A majority of the beginner detectors on the market I would not tell a beginner to buy as it will just waste space in their cupboard.  They're better off buying a detector they'll enjoy using and actually use it.

Luckily I was able to skip buying a lot of detectors to find the best one for the (my) job.

A lot of people including me will search for "best metal detector 2021". I've since learned not to do that. I think it's safe to say that advertisers "own" the internet, and looking for the best of anything gets scripted results pushing one in the direction of those who pay the most to get their products sold.

No, the real best way to find a great detector is to join a forum like this one, and second to visit a shop that sells only metal detectors.

The shop I went to sells all the major brands, Garrett, Fisher, Nokta Makro, Minelab, XP, and probably others I don't know. I went there with the Simplex+ in mind, I was looking for a detector that at least would ground balance, because I thought the fact that the Ace 400 didn't have it was the problem with all the chatter.

The owner is a major civil war relic hunter. His shop is full of finds, and people are in all the time picking up or delivering relics that are to be or have been restored. It's your first clue it's a great place to buy a detector. He also has used detectors for sale.

His son and I looked at the Equinox 800 , the Deus, and the Simplex, and really liked the Simplex for its price , ground balancing, and water resistance. The 800 was about 3 times the price, and the Deus (which he uses) was about 4 times more expensive.

A guy came in and bought an Equinox 600. After he left I got a chance to talk to the owner, he asked where and what I hunt for, and told me that if I could scratch up the extra $$ the Equinox 600 would be all I need. He knows where I live and what is here. It was about 2.5x the price of the Simplex, which he told me straight up would not do it for me.

I bought the Equinox, and haven't regretted it. Yes it is an unplug and go detector, but once I got the hang of tweaking - and it took a while, probably a mind change more than anything - it  performs much better, and that is all thanks to the people on this forum. I have since tried a Simplex and it really doesn't compare, but I don't think it was meant to in all fairness to Nokta.

A Simplex+ would be a great starting detector, don't know about the F75. It does much of what the higher end machines do (GB, waterproof) at a very low price. If you never used a higher end machine you wouldn't know what you are missing, and would probably be fine. I wish it was my first, but it definitely won't be the last 😀