I Want To See What Minelab & Garrett Is Bringing To The Table

[Cal_Cobra]

I don't follow their gold detectors, so I was wondering when they made that statement (Feb 2021) if they were hinting at gold detectors.  Didn't they release a couple of gold machines since Feb 2021? 

They're definitely keeping an eye on their competitors.  Probably testing their machines to verify if competitors have pilfered any of their patents, as well as curiosity.  

[phrunt]

Just the GPX 6000 but they said at the time the 6000 had already been released and there has been nothing since so I don't know what the other new products could be, their ambition is clearly taking over the coin and jewellery market though, the Equinox got them closer but they need more and they were aware of that at the time as the new releases were needed to gain more ground.  They consider the coin/jewellery machines as a bit of resilience for if the gold market crumbles away and the way they said they think it will take over the gold machines which are at 80-90%.

"It's certainly not as strong as our gold position, which we estimate at between 80% and 90% share. We're probably moving towards closer to 50%. So we're probably coming up from 35% to 50% would be the latest information we have. The objective is to try and keep play into some of our competitors with some of the new product releases that we have coming and try and get up towards the 60%, 70% as time goes on over the next couple of years. I think it's been difficult for people to respond. I think we saw Garrett come out with a product to respond to the VANQUISH and they quickly almost withdrawn it from the market to rehash it because it just hasn't been successful. So people are now panicking. I think they're trying to do things with their products that the architecture of the design just won't allow. So we've taken comparative products in-house. We've looked at their intents at multifrequency, and quite frankly, the physics don't stack up. So they would have to go and completely reengineer their platforms in order to compete with products like EQUINOX and VANQUISH, which we don't expect them to be able to do. So we've kind of got them on the run, Ronan."

[mh9162013]

6 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

I think we saw Garrett come out with a product to respond to the VANQUISH and they quickly almost withdrawn it from the market to rehash it because it just hasn't been successful. So people are now panicking. I think they're trying to do things with their products that the architecture of the design just won't allow. So we've taken comparative products in-house. We've looked at their intents at multifrequency, and quite frankly, the physics don't stack up. So they would have to go and completely reengineer their platforms in order to compete with products like EQUINOX and VANQUISH, which we don't expect them to be able to do. So we've kind of got them on the run, Ronan.

Assuming this is true, then the "AT Apex" is probably several years away...

Wow...

[GB_Amateur]

41 minutes ago, mh9162013 said:

Assuming this is true, then the "AT Apex" is probably several years away.

I'd rather hear what Garrett has to say about their own products than what Minelab has to say about Garrett's products.  Fox reporting on the henhouse....  Today I suspect their focus is on a couple other companies.  The narrative is likely going to be different at the next stockholders' meeting.

7 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

...I was wondering when they made that statement (Feb 2021)....

So this Q&A session was from a year ago now?  Hopefully that means there will be another one shortly.

[mh9162013]

15 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I'd rather hear what Garrett has to say about their own products than what Minelab has to say about Garrett's products.  Fox reporting on the henhouse....

So your'e saying the CEO* knowingly lied about Minelab's view of Garrett's ability to produce SMF hobby detectors?

Or are you saying the CEO of Minelab is confused or ignorant about Garrett's progress in making a SMF detector that can compete with Minelab's MIQ machines?

I'm not saying the CEO is right (although I believe the CEO is), but I don't think the CEO would make such bold statements unless he/she had a pretty good basis for making them.

 

 

* It's my understanding that it was the CEO that made the statement's we're discussing right now.

[GB_Amateur]

49 minutes ago, mh9162013 said:

So your'e saying the CEO lied...

Lying implies intent to deceive, in my book anyway.  Many people have a way of viewing the world through rose colored glasses.  CEO's are human -- very human.  Do company officers, when presented with more than one plausible explanation, choose the option that makes their company look better?

Was he lying?  Possibly, but IMO strong accusations require strong evidence.  Is what he said accurate?  Possibly.  And that means what he said is possibly inaccurate.

I'll rephrase my statement:  Garrett likely knows more about what is going on inside Garrett than Minelab does.  That is what my post meant, nothing more but certainly nothing less, either.

[mh9162013]

7 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Garrett likely knows more about what is going on inside Garrett than Minelab does. 

That makes sense, and I agree.

[Cal_Cobra]

6 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

Assuming this is true, then the "AT Apex" is probably several years away...

Wow...

Yep that was my takeaway too.  Sounds like Garrett is way behind on their SMF technology.  IF I were Garrett, I'd be hiring code monkeys to start breaking down the code from the White's V3i now that they own the IP on that.  Why reinvent the wheel when they just bought the IP for such a great machine (appears that they did try to reinvent the wheel for the APEX)? 

If they updated the V3i, in a lighter, waterproof AT format it would be a contender IMHO.  I had friends that mastered that detector and it was pretty impressive for sifting through trashy parks for jewelry hunting or deep turn coin shooting.  As I recall it was every bit as deep as the Etrac (Minelabs flagship detector when the V3i was out), but it was a bit complicated for the average user to adopt. For those that liked to get under the hood, it was great.  I loved it's target analysis graphing, my friends could use that to discern between a pull-tab and a gold ring with good success. 

Fun times! 

[mh9162013]

3 minutes ago, Cal_Cobra said:

If they updated the V3i, in a lighter, waterproof AT format it would be a contender IMHO. 

How's its recovery speed? Is it better in trash than the E-Trac?

[Cal_Cobra]

6 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I'd rather hear what Garrett has to say about their own products than what Minelab has to say about Garrett's products.  Fox reporting on the henhouse....  Today I suspect their focus is on a couple other companies.  The narrative is likely going to be different at the next stockholders' meeting.

So this Q&A session was from a year ago now?  Hopefully that means there will be another one shortly.

Yes there should be a new one this month. 

It's not uncommon for vendors on analyst calls to take shots at their competitors, I see it all the time in the industry I work in.  They don't typically call them out by name, but those in the known will typically know who they're referring to. 

Is it lying?  It's corporate positioning and marketing for sure.  I kind of doubt that Minelab would lie about this though, as the truth is in the pudding at the end of the day.  Garrett stated themselves that the APEX wasn't all that, and they knew it as it was their first attempt at a SMF detector and that they were already working on an advanced pro model.  What that'll look like and when it'll come to fruition is anyone's guess.