Under 4 Pound, Under $2000 Gbpi Challenge

[PhaseTech]

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The big difference is when you get into an area with hot rocks a GPX 4500 just can't handle, and a GPX 5000 Fine Gold setting just makes them go away. If it were not for those rocks, and that one setting, a 4500 would do me fine. If you don't have them where you hunt, you'd never know. Unfortunately, it's my biggest problems with both the GPZ 7000 and GPX 6000, and why I'm still looking for that "other PI." Luckily I can just hunt other places rather than get a GPX 5000 or an ATX, both of which solve the problem. I just want a GPX 5000 or ATX in a nice package.... too much to ask?

Really? The 4500 picks them up in Enhance where Fine Gold doesn't? 

[Steve Herschbach]

18 hours ago, PhaseTech said:

Really? The 4500 picks them up in Enhance where Fine Gold doesn't? 

Can’t swear to that, but for me Fine Gold was the ultimate hot rock killer, while still doing well on most gold. Was the SDC not based in the Fine Gold timing for that reason? But hey, I’m not picky, give us a GPX 4000/4500/4800/5000 in a CTX box (for beach use), I’ll buy one. 

[phrunt]

According to the little chart Fine Gold should be better than enhance on small nuggets?  And Enhance was enhanced on the 5000 and I believe later 4500's too? 😛 I'm sure you guys are all over these things but it's interesting and new to me.

I would be hoping if they did make a new model GPX in a modern lighter housing like the CTX or GPX 6000 housing they'd keep all the timings anyway.

Another reason why I don't think Minelab would ever do the $2000 challenge is it would eat into the sales of the more expensive machines, or at least make them seem very expensive by comparison.  A bit like the Equinox did to the CTX.  Nokta has said openly they would be taking on a PI detector soon, although that was some time ago and nothing since, at least it's something.  Fisher and their Impulse Gold.... a possibility too.  Garrett and the ATX replacement, it would be nice. 

The first one to market will reap the rewards and get the most sales.  I in a way hope it's Nokta as I want to see what they'd do.

[PhaseTech]

Fine Gold was a little "faster" than Enhance, so seems to have a small improvement on thin pieces on edge, and some reefy gold. On solid waterworn gold I've never seen any real difference, and sometimes Enhance can even be better, which is why it was left as an option in the 5000. 

Re hotrocks, Enhance should be slightly less reactive to the majority of them. I know the more sensitive Flat wind coils run better in Enhance than Fine Gold in bad ground. 

[PhaseTech]

Simon, when people post things like that out of the instruction manual, it gives me weird deja vu reading it, as myself and Ian Aitken wrote a lot of the content for them, with the 5000 manual being about the last one. 

[phrunt]

3 minutes ago, PhaseTech said:

Simon, when people post things like that out of the instruction manual, it gives me weird deja vu reading it, as myself and Ian Aitken wrote a lot of the content for them, with the 5000 manual being about the last one. 

That's pretty cool you wrote it 🙂 Ideal person to get advice from!  I'm quite interested in this as I've got a spot my GPZ struggles so badly with hot rocks and I've had my 4500 there before with my 14x9" EVO and even in enhance I was struggling and I'm intending to take the GPX 5000 there to try battle my way through them so was wanting to work out the best way to do it.  I'll use the 5000 and the 11" Commander and try enhance and Fine gold and see how I go, I know there is gold there as I've found a few pieces including a 1.2 gram bit but there just has to be more missed due to the hot rocks everywhere.

[PhaseTech]

Yeah the 11" Commander in Enhance should be pretty tame, otherwise Sens Smooth as a last resort. 

The other trick you can do is use Tracking and count how many sweeps it takes to track out. Usually noticeably faster to track out a hot rock compared to a nugget, but it's a risky practise. 

[Steve Herschbach]

I’m somewhat amazed that over six years after I issued this challenge, nobody has won the prize. If anything, we have gone backwards, since the White’s TDI took away a model that met the criteria but unfortunately lacked the horsepower. Among major manufacturers that leaves us with the new Garrett Axiom as being as close as we get. I’ll give them a win on the weight at a perfectly balanced 4.2 lbs. The SDC 2300 is currently the only other option, better on price, but horrible ergonomics.

This is where we are in 2023 as far as the challenge and the major producers:

Fisher - no ground balancing PI being offered

Garrett Axiom 4.2 lbs $3995

Minelab SDC 2300 5.7 lbs $3399

Nokta - no ground balancing PI being offered

XP - no ground balancing PI being offered

Axiom weight is good but price is still twice my targeted US$2000. It is therefore still an open challenge with only Fisher and Nokta in the running at this time. The Impulse Gold might get announced by the end of this year if we are lucky, and never if we are not. And we have no idea what the price will be. If the ergonomics match the Impulse AQ we will have a winner in that regard, but I’m worried Fisher will look at the Axiom and SDC price and come in at like $2995 just because they think they can. That would be a move in the right direction, but still too high. They are still selling the prototype Impulse AQ at $1700 though, so there is hope.

That leaves Nokta, but not a peep out of them on the subject since just over a year ago, when the detector was only in the pencil to paper planning stage. A year is not long enough to get a new detector done when starting from scratch, but maybe it’s possible by 2024.

Or does Minelab pull a “Xterra Pro” and head off everyone with a repackaged GPX 4500 for MSRP $2495 with an out the door price near $2000 ? It could happen, and Fisher and Nokta better get with the program or see this opportunity fade away. Me, I don’t care who does it, as long as it gets done. Until then I’ll use the Axiom as being as close as we can get at this time. It’s my way of supporting those who make progress to this under 4lb under $2K goal, and if anyone gets even closer I’ll look hard at using what they come up with instead. It merely need be as good as the Axiom, but at a lower price. Garrett met my minimum power needs, met the ergonomic challenge, but I’m disappointed at the price. That alone is keeping Garrett from selling the Axiom by the truck load.

Garrett Axiom, 4.2 lbs, $3995

[jasong]

At this rate, someone may end up stumbling into the prize "equivalent" just by inflation adjusted pricing, after enough time passes. According to BLS.gov $2000 in 2017 is now worth $2500 in 2023.

Of course, in 2017 the intrinsic value of a gold detector was also higher than it is right now since there was more gold left to find. So it still kinda feels like $2000 would be a correct value. 

[Steve Herschbach]

As the one setting the challenge I am offering no inflation adjustments.  My thinking is more that a very good VLF can be had for $1000 and a good PI should cost no more than twice that. People here tend to be made of money, but go to an average detector club meeting in the U.S. and tell the average user they should be spending $4000 for a metal detector! At $8000 they will think you are crazy. I am batting for the guy who is willing to invest in a couple good detectors and who thinks $3000 is more than enough to spend to get both a good VLF and a good PI. That's my personal goal also, to have just two or maybe three detectors at most that do all I need to do.

I am a technologist who thinks that technology generally means more power for the same or less outlay. That being the case I don't consider this a challenge really, just more a matter of time, and who will do it first. Competition and technology being what it is I think it is inevitable.