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Jackpine

First Accessory Coil For The Simplex

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First off I am getting the Simplex primarily as a backup for my fresh water wading.  It also has a chance to become my first choice as MF is not needed for fresh water hunting.  I have used many single freq machine in the lakes here, 12 Khz and high gain should get it done quite nicely which leads to why my request for the proper coil.   Wading for jewelry is all about area coverage, the more the better.   To cover larger areas requires time and at my age the size of standard DD coils is a time limiting factor due to the resistance of pushing those DD coils thru the water.  Looking at N/M's website they are already supplying a coil for the Anfibio/ZKruzer line that would fill the bill for me, the 9" concentric.  Less drag will extend my hunt time and the real kicker, the increased sensitivity to small gold due to the concentric design.  Please N/M give me my coil!

nokta-makro-9-inch-concentric-coil.jpg

 

Thanks for the pic Steve

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Jackpine

  I’m a believer in having a small coil but the size for me is between 6” and 7”. I’m hunting a city lot in another town that it’s so much trash a 2” would be just right. Garrett at one time made a coil that small .

 I’ve bought detectors that didn’t come out right away with a small coil like I won’t but I’m not going down that road again. Maybe when they do I’ll come back and buy it .

 The day of a customer having to eat whatever they throw at us is over. It’s just too many detector companies wanting our business and willing at least meet us half way of not all the way.

 What I’m wondering now is when a small coil is offered how it will reflect in relation to the price of the Simplex. Coils are never cheap as we all know but could one cost half the price of the Simplex are more maybe?

 If I was a full time beach hunter I couldn’t see the need for a different coil but I’m not .

 Nokta / Makro I must say have done their best to make and try to please anyone that wants a detector. You just take a look at Simplex with so much it has to offer and so little money.

 If you not sure about buying a detector from them because you’re worried about service . I can tell you first hand and yes I’ve said it before I got better service from them across the water than I did here . I didn’t get a replacement two are three weeks later. Heck I got it the next day and it didn’t cost me not one penny.

 Chuck 

 

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Hey Jackpine....When you get the Simplex let us know how the volume with the waterproof headphones compares to the Kruzer.  Hopefully they used a better amplifier so we don’t have to still struggle with volume in windy/choppy conditions.  

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2 hours ago, Noah (FL) said:

Hey Jackpine....When you get the Simplex let us know how the volume with the waterproof headphones compares to the Kruzer.  Hopefully they used a better amplifier so we don’t have to still struggle with volume in windy/choppy conditions.  

Will do.  However someone else will most likely beat me to it as water hunting season is over up here.   I'll probably hold off the waterproof phones until I see what else becomes available.

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Nokta is definitely listening to the users.  However, the thing to remember is it is called Simplex+ for a reason.  Even though it looks nothing like entry level detectors look liked even a just a few years ago, it is still targeted to new users or budget minded detectorists.  As a result, there are compromises and limitations inherent in the design.  Perhaps Dilek can chime in on Nokta's plans to provide accessory coils or, more specifically, whether the Simplex is even compatible with concentric coils (not a given).  In my opinion these groundbreaking (from a features/performance per price ratio perspective) "entry" level detectors from Nokta and Minelab are just one or two "minor tweaks" away from being something an experienced detectorist could consider as their primary detector and not just something to be used as a backup or as a loaner for a newbie or occasional detectorist.   Just a few tweaks is important when you are talking about a $300 ($400 for the Multi) difference between a Kruzer and a Simplex.  I don't think concentric coil compatibility and perhaps adding a second operating frequency to Simplex are significant from cost perspective (certainly not a $300 to $400 add) but these could make a huge difference to an experienced detectorist and could bump the Simplex up to the next level performance wise without breaking the bank.

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I'd be amazed if the Simplex is not able to use concentrics. Almost all detectors can use either. The Teknetics T2 is one of the only detectors I know of that was made to run only a DD coil. Concentric capability is not something you add, its something you have to specifically design to preclude.

The only thing "entry level" about the Simplex+ is the price. Garrett and First Texas flagship coin detectors are single frequency. Lack of frequency options is not a factor for many detectorists.

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14 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

Jackpine

  I’m a believer in having a small coil but the size for me is between 6” and 7”. I’m hunting a city lot in another town that it’s so much trash a 2” would be just right. Garrett at one time made a coil that small .

 I’ve bought detectors that didn’t come out right away with a small coil like I won’t but I’m not going down that road again. Maybe when they do I’ll come back and buy it .

 The day of a customer having to eat whatever they throw at us is over. It’s just too many detector companies wanting our business and willing at least meet us half way of not all the way.

 What I’m wondering now is when a small coil is offered how it will reflect in relation to the price of the Simplex. Coils are never cheap as we all know but could one cost half the price of the Simplex are more maybe?

 If I was a full time beach hunter I couldn’t see the need for a different coil but I’m not .

 Nokta / Makro I must say have done their best to make and try to please anyone that wants a detector. You just take a look at Simplex with so much it has to offer and so little money.

 If you not sure about buying a detector from them because you’re worried about service . I can tell you first hand and yes I’ve said it before I got better service from them across the water than I did here . I didn’t get a replacement two are three weeks later. Heck I got it the next day and it didn’t cost me not one penny.

 Chuck 

 

That’s awesome, Chuck. I got to believe, however, that as the sales really start to mount, there  might  come a time when the service center could  get overwhelmed, resulting in longer wait times and a hit on their reputation as a responsive  eager to please customer service department.  Their excellent build quality should avoid nuisance problems such as the wobbly shafts that the early equinoxes had  

 We will see   

The simplex + I have on preorder will me my first foray into the  Nokta-Makro world 

Really looking forward to it!

 

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Chase  

What compromises and limitations?  It is what it is. VCO audio will be new to some users however, it appears to be implemented properly with a well modulated response.  Other than that I see none.  By all accounts from a performance standpoint it appears to be a winner.

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6 hours ago, Jackpine said:

Chase  

What compromises and limitations?  It is what it is. VCO audio will be new to some users however, it appears to be implemented properly with a well modulated response.  Other than that I see none.  By all accounts from a performance standpoint it appears to be a winner.

 

13 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'd be amazed if the Simplex is not able to use concentrics. Almost all detectors can use either if they are made for them. The Teknetics T2 is one of the only detectors I know of that was made to run only a DD coil. Concentric capability is not something you add, its something you have to specifically design to preclude.

The only thing "entry level" about the Simplex+ is the price. Garrett and First Texas flagship coin detectors are single frequency. Lack of frequency options is not a factor for many detectorists.

Jeez I can't seem to win on these new offerings from Nokta and ML.  When discussing Vanquish I get accused of unfairly comparing Vanquish to mid and flagship detectors.  Here I get flogged for saying Simplex is has design compromises and I am unfairly maligning it vs. Garrett and First Texas flagship offerings.  I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. :laugh:

Anyway, let me reset the discussion in an attempt to better explain what I am getting at.  In a nutshell, Simplex and Vanquish have radically reset the bar when it comes to value defined as the ratio of features/performance to price.  They are going after the entry level market with very, very capable detectors and different design approaches Nokta Simplicity, ML features vs.cost) and save for a few features that I don't see significantly driving actual cost (multiple selectable frequencies in the case of Simplex to name but one) they are tantalizingly  close to delivering detectors to the experienced detectorist that perhaps doesn't have the resources to spend the extra $300 to $400 to move up to Multi Kruzer or Equinox. Detectors that perhaps offer more features than they need and/or want for that extra cash save for a few key additional features.

Again, I am focused on multiple selectable frequencies which does not seem to be that significant of a cost driver (perhaps $100 if you compare the price if Kruzer vs. Multi Kruzer) because I value that feature and it is a staple of recently released detector models from the companies that have basically lapped the Garrett's and First Texas' flagships of the industry including Nokta, XP, and Minelab (Impact, Multi Kruzer, Anfibio, ORX, Equinox, even the Quest Pro is in on the selectable multiple frequency bandwagon).  It has now become as ubiquitous and expected as water resistant/water proof capability and we should not expect flagships to not have these capabilities as a minimum so I dismiss Garrett and First Texas as flagship standard bearers.  Manufacturers shoukd strive to shoot way past AT Max and F75 for even mid-level offerings in terms of features.  Equinox and Kruzer basically taught us that lesson last year.   I love the stripped down simplicity of the Simplex with minimal sacrifice on capability.  I also like being able to hit a site with two different frequencies without having to go back to the truck or to interrogate targets on the fly with two different frequencies. It is just part of my routine now. 

And it doesn't just have to be that feature, let's talk tone options, multiple recovery speeds, etc.  What I am talking about is offering tiered, perhaps a la cart features and associated pricing that bridges the feature gap (notice I did not say capability gap) between Simplex+ and Multi Kruzer, for example.  With programmability and a common physical Simplex form factor and user interface, I am guessing that someone like Nokta could offer a customizable line of detectors to bridge the feature gap, and make the Simplex the base model for a whole host of COST EFECTIVE detectors that meet the needs of any detectorist at any skill level and/or style of hunting.  What I am saying is that Nokta and perhaps ML are at the doorstep of offering that kind of detector with their respective releases of Simplex and Vanquish.

Regarding the accessory coil, Steve you are right, I would also be surprised, too, if Simplex did not accommodate a concentric because Nokta does provide a great concentric accessory coil lineup for its detectors, but I thought is was also more surprising that unlike Nokta's previous offerings (Anfibio and Kruzer) and even the similarly priced Minelab Vanquish, there is NO mention of accessory coils coming (correct me if I am wrong on this, but I couldn't find any information on this other than the stock coil offering).   I hope that isn't the case and Nokta listens again.  But I can only comment on what has been announced re: accessory coils and so far there has been no word.  ML on the other hand has some compelling accessory coils already announced for Vanquish.  I do expect Nokta to follow suit.

And, just to be clear, lest there are any further "misunderstandings", I am not saying Nokta and ML missed the mark on these new offerings.  They have hit their target demo dead center.  All I am saying is that save for a few feature tweaks (I am sure others have similar but different features on their "wish lists") the Simplex and Vanquish are tantalizingly close to being something an experienced detectorist could excited about even if that requires an incremental price increase over these "entry level" offerings.

This is the point, Steve, where you tell me to get more sleep and eat more fruits and vegetables or something like that. :biggrin:

Cheers from Chase.

(I feel like Jerry McGuire after his sports agent "manifesto" ready to face the jeers and derision of my peers).

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3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

This is the point, Steve, where you tell me to get more sleep and eat more fruits and vegetables or something like that. 😀

Well, if you think people responding is accusing you of “unfairly maligning” and gathering the torches when nobody is doing anything of the sort then that might be a good idea. :smile:

It’s basically a perspective thing. You see these new models as being low price but lacking features you desire. Many of us are seeing machines packed with features at a low price. You are kind of lumping all experienced detectorists into thinking as you do, when that’s far from the case. Tom (Jackpine) I’d wager is more experienced than 90% of the people on this forum and he’s just fine with what Simplex is offering. Most of the machines I have used have not had tone or recovery speed adjustments and I did quite well with them. I see no need for a properly designed detector to have more than about three controls. You are making assumptions that all experienced detectorists like complexity and that’s not true of many of the ones I know at least. There are quite a few that just want to get the job done and are fine with monotone detectors. As much as I prefer multitones the fact is the majority of my own detecting boils down to "beep-dig". When you dig all non-ferrous you don’t need tones, and many pros dig it all.

The bottom line is it’s business and models are differentiated by features at given price points. The Equinox 600 and 800 are the same detector with the same production cost. One is simply feature limited to create a lower price point. You are paying for features when you get the 800, not some calculation based on what it cost to make the item. That applies to most of the First Texas lineup in spades. You are quite correct in that there will no doubt be future models in the Simplex housing with more features for a higher price. Nokta/Makro has already explicitly stated that will be the case. If that’s what you desire all you have to do is wait. :smile:

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