EL NINO77 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 3:44 PM, JCR said: @EL NINO77 Is the Atrex similar to the Versa in needing negative Disc on 1 tone to shift the iron tone break point? Can the user change the iron tone break point on multi tones with Atrex? This seems to be the whole basis of the current controversy with Versa. Having fully adjustable tone breaks & tone volumes on all Tone options; P, 1, 2, 3 & 6. would be very useful. Rutus Atrex has 2 types of Audio profiles available... the Coin audio profile and the Relict audio profile..!!! The following tone type is an audio tone of the type Coin 1, Coin 2, and Coin 3... which are set to work with the dissimulation shift as a tone break.., because the audio profile of coin 1 is actually 2 tones where 1 tone is in the tone break is sound of iron with setting Iron volume!!! + another ton above the discrimination threshold for non-iron targets..!!!. Audio Profile type Coin 1 ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Audio profile type Coin 2.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Audio Profile type Coin 3.. Audio profiles of the type "Coins 1,2,3" are still profiles with 1,2 or 3 tones for non-iron targets together with an iron tone - where the volume of the iron tone is adjusted in the "Iron volume" setting ... and where the "Tone break" limit " determines the Discrimination setting.....!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The second type of Audio is the audio tones of the Relict Profile where the tones are divided and the iron tone is in the range -90VDI to 0 VDI...and the tones of non-ferrous targets are set in the range VDI +1... to VDI +90... Relict 1,Relict2 and Relict3 tone Audio Profile... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ....You also have 3 user profiles in Atrex where there is tons of audio. you can edit as you like.. for example like this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Thank you for the detailed explanation. The interaction of Disc, tone break & iron volume used by Rutus is enough different that I have to really think about how it is intended to work. I still think the complete adjustability of audio that Nokta has given the Legend is ideal for high end units. I sure would like to have that same capability on the Versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 With Atrex, it's very simple... you select the Coin audio profile... and by setting the discrimination you determine what you want to hear as a ferrous signal and what you want to hear as a non-ferrous signal...as is the case with every detector on the market... As a user of Rutus detectors since 2012, I have never had a problem with this... Audio relict Relict has a set of tones fixed as the limit of iron and the limit of non-metal, because it is intended for relict searching in Mix mode... Maybe someone doesn't notice the differences, because they don't read the manual...detector.....but it's easy to understand... And you also have 3 user audio profiles where you can edit all 180 tones - by VDI numbers .. according to your own needs...*!!! But let's return now to Rutus ..Rutus VERSA and its tone audio profile... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 1/18/2024 at 5:25 PM, palzynski said: Hi Slavomir , Have you tried your Orx on this nails carpet test ? For me the XPs have one of the best separation abilities and I am curious to know how they perform on this test ... Thx ... Alain...I tested VERSA on a 23DD coil and ORX on a round HF coil in the classic 2D original Monte Nailboard test where both detectors achieved the same results in separation.. Between VERSA at 30-40 khz and ORX at 30 khz ...there is no difference in 2D separation... VERSA in 18khz /Atrex simulation/ and 40 khz ./VERSA/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORX in 30 khz... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If we move on to the 3D deep eeparation tests, VERSA is at least on par with ORX with the same iron discrimination setting.../ elimination of the signal on the nail.../ ORX in the same test done at the same time.... IF you set the discrimination of both detectors to the same level - so that they eliminate the signal with a nail... both detectors can unmask a small nickel coin at a depth of 11 cm...!!! This test was done in the month of October last year.....-and it showed that the unmasking of Versa on deep coins in iron is excellent -and at the level of ORX.. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Now I will devote myself to my "Iron carpet" Test "...since in my detection I often move on narrow stone roads which in ancient times were used for the movement of people, wagons and cattle...a large amount of iron, nails and pieces are stored on these narrow stone roads broken horseshoes or you can even find lost whole horseshoes... I don't have to say that such an environment is very difficult to detect and unmask the small coins that are found here... and you need really good separation detectors to be able to successfully detect other potentially good targets masked by iron.. The amount of iron here really exceeds the simulation of the number of nails in the Monte Nailboard test... and that's why I decided to simulate the extreme pollution of the terrain that is densely occupied by iron... and I did the "Iron Carpet Test"... Because... it had a 12cm concentric coil on an ATREX/ALTER71, it passed the Monte Nailboar Test perfectly... and also showed excellent unmasking of targets... and it brought more beautiful coins. in a field. which was previously heavily traversed by various detectors and coils... decided I tested this coil again on some difficult separation test that would confirm or disprove its excellent 2D and 2.5D separation properties ..but also with the help of such a test I found the optimal detector setting for this type of separation for the given coil.... The difficulty of my "Iron Carpet" test is really extremely high.. but it will really show whether the tested detector and coil have any advantage in unmasking.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/20/2024 at 11:17 PM, EL NINO77 said: .. Because... it had a 12cm concentric coil on an ATREX/ALTER71, it passed the Monte Nailboar Test perfectly... and also showed excellent unmasking of targets... and it brought more beautiful coins. in a field. which was previously heavily traversed by various detectors and coils... decided I tested this coil again on some difficult separation test that would confirm or disprove its excellent 2D and 2.5D separation properties ..but also with the help of such a test I found the optimal detector setting for this type of separation for the given coil.... The difficulty of my "Iron Carpet" test is really extremely high.. but it will really show whether the tested detector and coil have any advantage in unmasking.. Thanks Slavomir ... Very interesting post . Up to now I havent found a reliable separation board test for my local ( and difficult ) conditions and I am still searching 🙂... . I do have reliable bed tests for pure depth assessments but still not for separation .. Yes your test is very difficult, but however no matter the difficulty as long as it is reliable to show the ability ( or not ) of a detector/coil to work in the field in real conditions ... The main difference between your test and Monte board test is the use of a lot of small bits of iron instead of a few big ones. My be this is the key to simulate our local environments , which probably contain much more small bits of iron than bigger ones , especially in open fields where the big ones have been broken by plough and tractors .. It is a very good idea , I will make one as soon as I have some time available and let you know how it goes ... Have you tried this test with other detectors/ coils btw ? thx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On sites where I have sole permission for long term I have made in ground test spots by placing desirable targets into challenging spots without disturbing the surrounding soil. Once you dig up the iron trash it is not the same as undisturbed. Nothing extreme, just representative scenarios This has been very helpful in the learning of my detectors/coils. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Alain and JCR .. since in the last few days I have been detecting a couple of times from the Atrex with a small 12cm concentric coil and .. from the VERSA with a 23DD coil, so I will be able to describe my observations from the detection as well as write something about the sound profiles of the VERSA.. ...as for 2D and 3D separation tests and practical detection ... it should look something like this ... like with Atrex ... "3D separation test"..A very small 14mm-0.5gram hammered coin is placed at a depth of 16cm !!! and practical unmasking in detection... Atrex found the last two coins masked by iron in this field... the depth of the found coins was...15cm and 17cm.. I previously detected in this field as the last detectors here were Equinox 8OO, Vanquih, Tesoro Mojave, ORX with white 9" round and 5x9.5" elliptic coil, Vista gold Gain, and these detectors passed these 2 coins... .. as they also did not find any coin targets on this terrain...other than various small pieces of metal.. Only Tesoro Mojave managed to unmask the penultimate coin after these detectors... at a depth of about 15-17 cm...I think it was also due to the 7" concentric coil on the Tesoro.. even though Vista gold Gain is on the picture... you can see a larger aluminum coin in a plastic container on the table that was unmasked by Mojave... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This will give you a lot to think about how it is possible that after so many detectors, Atrex was able to unmask the last 2 coins found on this field...But also shows the excellent detection capabilities of this detector..!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Now specifically for the Rutus VERSA... VERSA has its coin-type audio profile stored in 1 tone, in Pitch tone, and in User profiles 1,2,3 .. where you can use Tone break if you reduce the discrimination lower than 0.. in User profiles you can adjust the multitones yourself for each VDI number, that means 120 tones..-in multitone.. VERSA 1tone /coin profile/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VERSA USER profil 1 -Multitone / coin type / My other favorite multi-tone User profile 2 /coin type/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2-ton, 3-ton .and 6 Relict type profile.. have a fixed border between a ton of iron and a ton of non-ferrous metals.. Versa 2 tone audio profile/relict type/ VERSA 3 tone audio profile.../relict Type/ VERSA 6 tone audio profile /reclict Type/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 1/21/2024 at 11:05 AM, palzynski said: Thanks Slavomir ... Very interesting post . Up to now I havent found a reliable separation board test for my local ( and difficult ) conditions and I am still searching 🙂... . I do have reliable bed tests for pure depth assessments but still not for separation .. Yes your test is very difficult, but however no matter the difficulty as long as it is reliable to show the ability ( or not ) of a detector/coil to work in the field in real conditions ... The main difference between your test and Monte board test is the use of a lot of small bits of iron instead of a few big ones. My be this is the key to simulate our local environments , which probably contain much more small bits of iron than bigger ones , especially in open fields where the big ones have been broken by plough and tractors .. It is a very good idea , I will make one as soon as I have some time available and let you know how it goes ... Have you tried this test with other detectors/ coils btw ? thx Alain, greetings to you... this nail carpet test of mine was entered on the basis of simulating detection in conditions that will be more difficult for the separation of targets in iron ... as simulated by the Monte performance nailboard test.. where coils around 8.5-9" still perform reasonably well pass the Monte test...even if not with the full number of points achieved.. This forced me to think about how many targets the 9" coil can prove... to miss in the field with really strong storage iron .. - even in more demanding detection conditions than the Monte performance separation test simulates... and what targets they will be.. After very good practical experience in finding iron-disguised targets in the field... and finding beautiful coins... with a small 12cm concentric coil on the ATREX... as well as the fact that this coil performed the best in the Monte Nailboard test... I was curious to what to what extent can it pass this extreme "carpet of nails test .. and to what extent can the 6", 7", 8" and 9" DD coils that I use on my detectors cope with such a test.. !!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 One of the test videos from Iffy Signal /Mike/... shows the deep possibilities of Rutus VERSA on the new 3.7 NC software... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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