18 posts in this topic
Unfortunately I am out detecting a lot, or when home I'll be on two or three other Forums and don't monitor Steve H.'s site as much as I guess I should. Therefore, I haven't kept up with many of your posts, but this one left me wondering a bit.
You list yourself as being "White's Media Guy" but let me ask this. How long have you been with White's, and anything other than just doing 'media' work? How long have you been metal detecting? What types of detecting do you prefer to do the most (Coin & Jewelry Hunt, Beach Hunt, Relic Hunt, Electronic Prospecting, etc.)? Have you been involved in the metal detecting industry for long, or at all, before going to work at White's?
tboykin: I think it's a matter of finances for most companies. As volume in sales drops, they have to lower the price to keep the bottom line looking good. ... Sometimes a manufacturer drops a price in order to be competitive in the market. One example would be the Nokta FORS CoRe that had a price reduction about two years ago. It wasn't to "keep the bottom line looking good" but a readjustment of the MSRP of a newer and very competitive model on the market.
FTP has offered the basic Teknetics T2 'Classic' at a much lower price now for about two years, and recently offered a reduced-price Fisher F75. I don't think that "it's a matter of finances" with them, either, as these were models that started in the market in 2006, I believe, with the T2 and later the F75. Sales have been just fine, so I think the 'price drops' were because  they need to be competitive on the market and  they just might be planning on newer models soon to replace the position these models held.
tboykin: This happens when companies don't bring new products to market or constantly release "rehashes" of old tech...."Rehashes" you say, because nothing new was brought to market?
Would that be anything like the essentially same 6000 Pro XL being unchanged but renamed the XL Pro? How about the Classic IDX being renamed the IDX Pro?
The 'Spectrum XLT' relabeled the XLT e-series? Introducing the Prizm series, which were poor sellers, so the color was changed to burgundy and the name of these same detectors was changed to Coinmaster?
The MXT Pro was a nice improvement of the original MXT, but less than four years ago it was 'renamed.' or 'rehashed,' the MXT 'ALL' Pro. There were no circuitry or packaging changes, other than an 'All' sticker added to the side decals, and a move from the 950 Concentric coil to the 10" D2 DD coil that had a history of coil failures and/or poor performance.
Seems like there has been a lot of 'rehashes' over the past seventeen years or so do in Sweet Home.
tboykin: The great thing about this is that as newer companies advance technology, the dinosaur brands will have to keep up. Or they will die. Just dropping the price isn't going to be enough to keep things afloat - you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before.... "New Companies" would include Makro Detector, Nokta Detectors, XP Detectors who all have newer models the past several years that are very proven and well tested performers. there is a pretty fair amount of "newer advanced technology" for consumers to select from. I think you are right about "dinosaur brands that have to keep up" and sometimes that does mean dropping the MSRP, if necessary, to stay competitive.
It has to be pretty tough to try and sell 'older' models with 'older' technology that have been outclassed at a suggested retail that is significantly higher than comparable detectors on the market. Again, let's revisit the MXT Pro, or re-hashed / re-named All Pro. It is still listed at $899.95 USD. The MXT Pro used to be one of my main-use detectors until a little over two years ago when it was wiped out of my personal detector arsenal because it was simply out-classed and out-performed ... by a model with a renewed lower MSRP of $699.
if you are familiar with the competition out there, look how many competitive models to the MXT series offer manual, VCO Audio, backlighted displays, adjustable Tone Break, Ferrous Audio Volume control, Audio Tone Adjustment, and the ability to Save personal settings or restore a Factory Default ... and several of them sell for $100 or more less than the MXT All Pro.
You did say "you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before" and I think that's a good thought. But TO ME, if a good company is capable of engineering a newer detector, an advanced detector, a state-of-the-art detector that can set a high standard in the industry, I think that company ought to be able to make that engineering move by designing their own search coils that they also engineer to provide the best source for performance from their own detector.
We read a couple of years back where to get the better performance from your top-dollar V3i you needed to buy the after-market Detech Ultimate coil. Last year you folks speedily rushed the MX Sport to market plagued with circuitry and hardware flaws, and didn't even make a smaller-size search coils for it. Then, low-and-behold, a new 7" appears .... also from Detech, the Bulgarian manufacturer.
tboykin: It's a good thing for everyone - the aging workhorse machines become cheaper for entry-level users, and the power users get new technology to play with.... I think that 17 years after the original MXT was introduced, with a few remedies to bring us the MXT Pro / All Pro, it is a bit aging, and is priced much higher than competitive models with more features, better weight and balance, and also better in-the-field performance. To stay competitive the MSRP should have been reduced a while back.
The only other newer models in the past couple of years have been the Treasure Master and Treasure Pro, not especially hot items, and the Made in China White's XVenture which is a very low-priced model that was marketed by White's factory directly, Amazon and a couple of other sources. Most dealers I have spoken with don't have it listed, didn't know anything about it, or were not pleased with the fact that White's is selling a bargain priced model against their own dealers.
If Chuck and some others have an MX Sport that is working properly and they like it, fine. I was hoping the new model was going to be an improved progression of the MXT series, but the several I have handled didn't convey that feeling to me, were nose heavy, and performance was lacking. Admitted, those were some of the early releases that were in dealer's shops, but they soured me enough to not have tried one now they are supposed to be fixed.
Again, you were right it saying "newer companies advance technology" and they are out there. I am in the growing group of avid detectorists who are waiting to see what White's might do with some dinosaurs or lemons, adjust prices for reasonable competition, and bring something with newer technology to the market. Something that is newer, field tested, and evaluated by consumers to be sure it will likely be problem-free and not a rush-to-market new model with failures.
My first factory-produced detector was a Whites in the summer of '68 and I would honestly like to see White's rise back to the upper ranks of detector manufactures like they used to be. I think it is going to take a bit of effort, however, since the detector market used to be especially strong in the USA way back when, but it is more of a global market today and dwindling in popularity here in the US.
Every piece of gold I have run across my machine I get a reading between 42 and 48.... Someone showed me a 1oz. nugget and when I ran my machine over it the target i.d was 82 so I was guessing that it wasn't a good quality if any gold at all...the person said because of its size the reading was higher....WEEEELLLLLLL when I got home I ran a 1/2 oz and a DWT piece over the coil and each pulled a reading of 44 and 47...
I ask if this is correct because while hunting I have run across targets of 80 and up and from my experience with my machine that is usually bird shot or some other metal other than gold and I ignore some targets because of this...AM I PASSING UP GOLD NUGGETS???
By Ridge Runner
I just got my May issue of Lost Treasure and here is another detector put out by Tesoro called Mojave. It says the MSRP is 279.00 with what I think on all their detectors a life time warranty. Now for me that may not be a long time but for others it could be.
Every time I turn around you got a company lowering their price of a detector that's been on the market for a long time. Then it's others coming out with a new product we've never seen before.
You take any of the lower price detectors ( we won't say cheap ) and if it's a coin detector it finds coins. Here Minelab has another detector and it's a nugget hunter I'm sure it will find gold.
I know if I wanted to get in coin hunting I'd be more willing to spend 2 or 3 hundred than 7 hundred on up until I find if this is for me. I know for most this stands true for anyone wanting to get into nugget hunting.
Everyone on this forum has a opinion and I'd like to hear it.
You ever been fishing and the fish biting so fast you had to stand behind a tree to bait your hook ? You ask what does this have to do with detectors and I'll tell you NOTHING.haha
By Ridge Runner
I don't believe it's necessary to say the name of any detector.
I do find if I swing with the right hand on some detectors all is well. Then others would be best if in the other hand.A lot has to do with what side the controls are on. Like some you find them on the side of the control box. Then others it has to do with the headphones and where they plug in. I dislike a detector that don't come with a stand. It don't go out the door until I make something to keep it off the ground.
I think the best for all is when you find the controls above your hand and can be seen in either.
Tell me if you find yourself standing on the wrong side of your detector. Just maybe yours is user friendly.