Apex Modes Vs Equinox Search Profiles

[Steve Herschbach]

While going over the new Garrett Apex features I noted a major difference between it and the Minelab Equinox, and to a lesser degree, the Minelab Vanquish. The Modes (Garrett) or Search Profiles (Minelab).

On the Equinox each search profile does not only save settings, but has built in programming differences. Park 1 and Park 2, for instance, can be different even if they are set up with exactly the same settings. The two modes use different frequency mixes in Multi-IQ. Each search profile can be highly customized, and the end effect is one of having many different metal detectors in one. Two modes can make it seem like you are using two different detectors.

The Vanquish does not have the same level of adjustments available, but again, there are built in programming differences between the modes as far as frequency mix, recovery speed, etc. There are genuine differences between the modes from an operational aspect, not just in what is being accepted or rejected.

The Garrett Ace Apex is much simpler in that it really only has one operating mode - the one you are in. When you choose an operating frequency you have in effect chosen your operating mode. The Apex various saved operating modes are nothing more than saved discrimination patterns.

With Equinox or even Vanquish the effect of switching modes if quite profound, like literally picking up another detector. With Apex you will be feeling much more like you have one mode that you set up, and then you have some discrimination patterns you can toggle between.

The Apex really is very simple. Chose a frequency, set sensitivity, ground balance.... that is really all the performance options you have.

The Relic, Jewelry, and Int Coins Modes in particular are redundant. The only difference between the three is Relic accepts 35 and above, Jewelry 40 and above, and Int Coins 45 and above. The Custom Mode actually starts out the same as the Int Coins mode, adding another layer of redundancy. I'm sure all I'd ever use are Zero and Custom. I would set custom for whatever items I want notched out, and then have the adjacent Zero mode to toggle into, since the Apex lacks a Horseshoe shortcut button to All Metal (Zero) Mode.

[Chase Goldman]

43 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The Apex really is very simple. Chose a frequency, set sensitivity, ground balance.... that is really all the performance options you have.

Yes it is really simple compared to Equinox.  However, in choosing a frequency you have the choice between MF and Salt MF - which is the closest analog to Equinox Beach mode and "Everything Else" Multi IQ.  In effect, Apex has two MF search profiles vs. arguably 6 to 8 Multi IQ profiles for the Equinox - all the other "modes" are indeed just discrimination pattern differences and no adjustable or discernible recovery speed variations.  As you mentioned, it is not clear that Vanquish has anything more than a single Multi IQ profile with the modes differentiated solely by disc patterns and underlying "hard wired" recovery speed settings differences for each of the 3 modes (Coin, Relic, and Jewelry).  There isn't even a dedicated Salt/Beach MF mode on Vanquish.

[Steve Herschbach]

26 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

There isn't even a dedicated Salt/Beach MF mode on Vanquish.

Not required. MF as employed in Vanquish already works on the beach. It would be more accurate to say it does not have a dedicated dry land only mode.

 

Equinox has at least five Multi Modes:

Park 1 / Field 1 Multi

Park 2 / Field 2 Multi

Beach 1 Multi

Beach 2 Multi

Gold Mode Multi

plus 4, 5 ,10, 15, 20, and 40 kHz single frequency options

 

Apex you have MF and MF Salt

plus 5, 10, 15, and 20 kHz single frequency options

 

All of which is kind of beside the point I was trying to make, which was not to decide who has the most modes. I'm pointing out the modes on Apex, for all they do, could be left entirely off of the detector and not affect it's performance. Both Equinox and Vanquish have built in performance factors in the search profiles that make them a different beast compared to the Apex modes. On Apex, they are simply placeholders for disc patterns, nothing more.

[Chase Goldman]

 

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

All of which is kind of beside the point I was trying to make, which was not to decide who has the most modes. I'm pointing out the modes on Apex, for all they do, could be left entirely off of the detector and not affect it's performance. Both Equinox and Vanquish have built in performance factors in the search profiles that make them a different beast compared to the Apex modes. On Apex, they are simply placeholders for disc patterns, nothing more.

I agree with you regarding what Garrett is calling "modes" simply being simple preset discrimination profiles.  I was not trying to "count modes".  I was trying to point out that whatever is going on with Apex they have not one but two multi-frequency profiles and I don't think that is beside the point you were trying to make.  Until someone with detector knowledge and testing experience such as yourself conducts comparisons between MF and MF salt, I don't think that we can say with certainty that they behave the same and don't have something baked in under the hood that causes them to respond to targets differently, similar to (but not as sophisticated as) say Beach and Park 1 on the Equinox (minus the differences in the user adjustable settings of disc, recovery speed, iron bias, and tone customizations).  The differential in Vanquish modes appears to simply be disc patterns (like the Apex) plus baked-in presets of settings like recovery speed that the Equinox user normally has access to rather than actual different underlying MF profiles.  I suspect, but as you know can't confirm, that Vanquish is just running a close variant of Beach mode under the hood in all "modes".  I also suspect the differences in Apex MF and MF Salt to be subtle and possibly be even undetectable, but am curious as to why Garrett bothered to include both rather than a single MF mode primarily intended to provide salt beach stability.  That's all I was trying to say.

As I think about it a little more - there may truly be no difference between MF and MF salt as far as targets are concerned and MF salt is just a flag simply setting telling the detector GB circuit to GB to salt conductivity vs. ground phase.  

I guess we'll know once we get a few in the wild to do some unbiased test runs.

[Steve Herschbach]

Whether it’s frequency or whatever, the Vanquish modes are more than disc patterns. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Until someone with detector knowledge and testing experience such as yourself conducts comparisons between MF and MF salt, I don't think that we can say with certainty that they behave the same and don't have something baked in under the hood that causes them to respond to targets differently,

I expect the MF Salt mode just acts to balance to both salt and mineral simultaneously... the big advantage of multifrequency over single frequency when it comes to beach detecting. This will in turn make it less sensitive to weak signals.

The real question for me is not saltwater. The question is.... what, if any, advantage does Multi-Flex offer over single frequency on the Apex for other types of detecting? If you read all the Garrett info, they actually make no claims of consequence.

”Garrett’s Multi-Flex technology, fueled by a cutting edge, broad-bandwidth digital platform, simply gives you more versatility with the Apex than can be found on any detector in its price range! Choose from powerful single frequencies to enhance detection on specific targets*, or select one of Apex’s simultaneous multifrequency modes to achieve excellent detection on all targets in all soils.

 * Note: lower frequencies generally offer improved detection on larger and more conductive targets (i.e. large silver coins). Higher frequencies generally offer improved detection on smaller and less conductive targets (i.e., hammered silver coins, gold nuggets.”

There are actually no claims of more depth, better discrimination... better anything really. The whole sales pitch is “versatility.” In fact they go out of their way on several occasions to point out single frequency can outperform the multifrequency option. Whereas Minelab went so far as to say Multi-IQ obsoletes single frequency. Hyperbole of course, but also an indication of the faith Minelab has in Multi-IQ. I’m not catching the same kind of vibe from Garrett on Multi-Flex and I’m therefore surmising that what they have is a “soft” multifrequency not unlike that done in many early machines like the CZ series or DFX/Beachhunter ID. Which in turn means no major benefit really outside of saltwater operation.

[Chase Goldman]

22 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

There are actually no claims of more depth, better discrimination... better anything really. The whole sales pitch is “versatility.” In fact they go out of their way on several occasions to point out single frequency can outperform the multifrequency option. Whereas Minelab went so far as to say Multi-IQ obsoletes single frequency. Hyperbole of course, but also an indication of the faith Minelab has in Multi-IQ. I’m not catching the same kind of vibe from Garrett on Multi-Flex and I’m therefore surmising that what they have is a “soft” multifrequency not unlike that done in many early machines like the CZ series or DFX/Beachhunter ID. Which in turn means no major benefit really outside of saltwater operation.

Yeah, I have to keep reminding myself that Garrett is on their first generation of MF with Apex, while Vanquish, as simple as it is, is rocking Minelab's fourth generation MF implementation (Multi-IQ) that followed in the footsteps of FBS 2, FBS, and BBS.

When you think about it, the laundry list of advantages of MF are small and sometimes I have to really think about it to come up with them:

Salt beach stability is probably number 1, followed by: normal ground balance "forgiveness", wide target type detection "versatility", target ID accuracy at depth (though I suspect ID stability might take a hit under some circumstances), and advanced ferrous filtering capabilities (e.g., iron bias).  MF certainly does not enhance raw detection depth (perhaps decreases it slightly due to power inefficiencies), has no beneficial impact on recovery performance (and can potentially hinder it due to processor overhead), and tends to be more susceptible to EMI.  MF is not a panacea by any stretch but it is a good capability to have in your detector's toolkit.

[Joe D.]

Well, i guess you two didn't leave anything else to add for the rest of us!!

    It's all good though!! I enjoyed the back and forth!! Like a good tennis match!!🎾 🤝 🤣😂         👍👍

[Chase Goldman]

Steve: "You got chocolate in my peanut butter!"

Chase: "No you got peanut butter in my chocolate!"

[dave_e]

Thanks Steve/Chase.

Very informative.

[Bohemia Miner]

So, which one is best?  A Search  Profile (Park, Field, Beach, Prospecting) or Target type 'Mode" (coins, relics, jewelry, etc).

I'm glad I finally learned to use the search feature of this forum!  I was on the Legend FB page and one guy said companies should go back to "Modes" based on Target type.  Which led me here.  I figured that the innovator, Minelab, and the Copier, Nokta would not have gone there if Search Profiles "conditions/locations" weren't better and the wave of the future.

Thanks!

Walt