10 Things I Like And 5 Things Don't Like About The Garrett Apex

[Jeff McClendon]

13 minutes ago, kac said:

I would give Garrett a hollar, sounds like the coil is not good. Both my machine after coil replacement and buddies Apex behave the same as the ground balance, signal on targets and even in high emi areas respond exactly the same on sensitivity. Depth is also the same. His machine was used and never had any problems, mine was brand new and happened to have a bad coil.

The machine should lock onto the targets and numbers shouldn't be all over the place.

There is always a possibility shipping could do some damage and possible that is what happened.

I sent the Viper coil, control box and MS-3s in for repair/evaluation. Garrett returned the same Viper coil to me after checking it. So, I am moving on. 

This appears to be another perfectly good detector that just can't handle the iron rich/volcanic ash filled moderate to high mineralization in my area. Simultaneous multi frequency detector technology is definitely not equal from one technology to another even within the same manufacturer........Minelab BBS and FBS technology detectors get mediocre results where I often detect. Minelab Multi IQ is excellent here..............

[phrunt]

Garrett probably replaced the PCB as a precaution more so than they found a problem with it, we used to do similar in the computer service center I worked for in my younger days.  If we were unable to find a fault we'd just replace the component anyway for customers that were sure their unit was faulty, if we missed the fault the problem is resolved and it keeps the customer a bit happier that you did all possible to resolve their problem.  It popped up time to time that a customer wanted to play one particular game and the game kept crashing yet the machine was in spec to easily handle the game, yet the game kept crashing and all other games worked fine...  Sometimes it came down to an entire machine being replaced for them to see the problem was the game and not the machine.  

If the problem still exists on the detector after the PCB replacement it's not so much a fault as a limitation, or in the computers case a likely compatibility problem.  Sounds like the Apex MF method just isn't up to the same standards of ground handling as the Multi-IQ MF method for your soil type.

Garrett did all they can do from a customer service standpoint I guess, other than replacing the coil too although it's harder to reuse that, your faulty but not faulty PCB will likely go into another repair at some point.

[Jeff McClendon]

11 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Garrett probably replaced the PCB as a precaution more so than they found a problem with it, we used to do similar in the computer service center I worked for in my younger days.  If we were unable to find a fault we'd just replace the component anyway for customers that were sure their unit was faulty, if we missed the fault the problem is resolved and it keeps the customer a bit happier that you did all possible to resolve their problem.  It popped up time to time that a customer wanted to play one particular game and the game kept crashing yet the machine was in spec to easily handle the game, yet the game kept crashing and all other games worked fine...  Sometimes it came down to an entire machine being replaced for them to see the problem was the game and not the machine.  

If the problem still exists on the detector after the PCB replacement it's not so much a fault as a limitation, or in the computers case a likely compatibility problem.  Sounds like the Apex MF method just isn't up to the same standards of ground handling as the Multi-IQ MF method for your soil type.

Garrett did all they can do from a customer service standpoint I guess, other than replacing the coil too although it's harder to reuse that, your faulty but not faulty PCB will likely go into another repair at some point.

The control box and MS-3 headphone PCBs were replaced and the intermittent and loss of pairing issues have been fixed. 

Garrett did their job very well. I have no complaints.

The Apex just does not offer any advantages as a detector where I most often detect over any of my other detectors. Personally, I wish I had kept my AT Gold..........at least it is waterproof, has more stable tone and numerical target IDs and has an all metal mode. It does not have the very nice ergonomics, iron tone volume adjustments or selectable frequencies of the APEX however.

[abenson]

Jeff sounds like similar experience with the Apex as I had performance wise.

I've had a few people tell me I didn't give the Apex enough time and that I didn't know how to properly set it up. Ok then.......enough said on that subject.

Funny thing is I just picked up one the other day at one of the local clubs. I just couldn't pass up the deal and figured I could make money on it worst case scenario. $435 for the Apex with headphones and 3 coils.

So I'll be running the Apex through Parks, ghost towns, military camps and the beach this Fall and comparing it to the Simplex and Equinox specifically. I'll report back periodically and shoot some video.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, abenson said:

So I'll be running the Apex through Parks, ghost towns, military camps and the beach this Fall and comparing it to the Simplex and Equinox specifically. I'll report back periodically and shoot some video.

Looking forward to that.  
 

And thanks to Jeff on his reports.  I have gone back and forth on Apex, but bottom line, I encounter high mineralized conditions more often than not, so if Garrett needs to do another MF design iteration to achieve better performance in this regard, I’ll gladly wait for that.  The ergonomics, selectable SF and accessory coil selection of the Apex at the Apex price point are what keep me interested in the machine but it is not compelling in the end if the MF and SF signal processing struggles in hot ground.

[kac]

Not for nothing but why would you get an Apex when you already have the Nox?

Jumpy numbers are a good tell tale sign of emi interference. Not a fault of a detector necessarily. Detectors with higher sensitivity and less shielding tend to be more prone to emi issues. With that being said there is a chance that Garrett didn't experience the same emi you did and the machine may have passed their tests.

All I know is my first experience with the Apex with a faulty coil I struggled, not only because the audio is much different than I am used to hunting but I too had trouble trying to get numbers to settle. I found myself swinging faster than normal. Wasn't until I ran into knock issues is when I sent it back and If my buddy didn't own one I wouldn't know that there was something wrong.

For my emi riddle basement I can now run the machine at full gain and air test gives me penny and clad dime at around 8-81/2" and nickels and clad quarter at the 12".  So that being said the machine runs much better than I had thought it could.

[Jeff McClendon]

“Not for nothing but why would you get an Apex when you already have the Nox?”

Several reasons…….I like Garrett and want to support them. I have heard many good things about the APEX from people on this forum that I respect. I had already tried one out and hoped that the one I tried was defective. Since I hunt in higher iron mineralization than most people, I wanted to see if Garrett’s SMF technology could handle it.

 

“Jumpy numbers are a good tell tale sign of emi interference. Not a fault of a detector necessarily. Detectors with higher sensitivity and less shielding tend to be more prone to emi issues. With that being said there is a chance that Garrett didn't experience the same emi you did and the machine may have passed their tests.”

Jumpy, unstable numbers can also be caused by iron/salt mineralization partial masking which can make shallower targets be very iffy like they are at the edge of detection.

I would not consider the APEX to be a high gain detector. For the most part it is well behaved EMI wise and the 8 available channels usually have one that can avoid most of the EMI. I never run any detector inside a building in order to perform air tests or to do any major testing. I do run detectors on my back porch sometimes where EMI is manageable.

 

“All I know is my first experience with the Apex with a faulty coil I struggled, not only because the audio is much different than I am used to hunting but I too had trouble trying to get numbers to settle. I found myself swinging faster than normal. Wasn't until I ran into knock issues is when I sent it back and If my buddy didn't own one I wouldn't know that there was something wrong.” 

I consider the target ID and depth performance of the APEX in moderate to high mineralization to be average for any single frequency detector that I have used here in my area. The results I described are very common. Every single frequency detector behaves just about the same way and has just about the same results. I was hoping that Garrett’s SMF technology might do better than most. It didn’t.

 

“For my emi riddle basement I can now run the machine at full gain and air test gives me penny and clad dime at around 8-81/2" and nickels and clad quarter at the 12".  So that being said the machine runs much better than I had thought it could.”

I was hoping for more from the APEX. I was wrong. Other than the pairing issues, I believe the APEX I have is working as designed. 

Most people who detect in “normal” dirt have absolutely no concept of what the eroded dirt of three different sets of iron and volcano rich Rocky Mountains can do to a single frequency detector or to some simultaneous multi frequency detectors. I have tested most of them during my detecting hobby and the ones I have used here have failed to have decent numerical target ID, up average low and mid conductors a lot, have depth cut in half or more, have difficulty ground balancing and basically aren’t much fun to use on coin sized targets unless they are 4” or less deep.

I appreciate you and many others trying to help me since on the surface it would seem that I have no clue how to operate a metal detector or how to diagnose a possible issue. A few on this forum who live out here and detect in similar soil conditions like Abenson and Steve H, know exactly what I am describing and why many otherwise excellent detectors simply don’t work worth a damn here.

[palzynski]

I agree that Garrett has to improve the Apex , this even for mild soils where I detect :

- suppress/filter the random false signals 
- improve target id stability on targets for both the audio and the VDIs

From my standpoint I keep my Apex because it is a fast and light machine . I hope that Garrett will develop new software versions that will solve the issues 

At least if they read this forum they know what they have to do ....

 

[Jeff McClendon]

33 minutes ago, palzynski said:

I agree that Garrett has to improve the Apex , this even for mild soils where I detect :

- suppress/filter the random false signals 
- improve target id stability on targets for both the audio and the VDIs

From my standpoint I keep my Apex because it is a fast and light machine . I hope that Garrett will develop new software versions that will solve the issues 

At least if they read this forum they know what they have to do ....

 

If I just needed a detector for milder dirt/turf hunting along with some saltwater beach detecting, the Garrett APEX would be an excellent choice. I would probably ditch the Viper coil for a smaller elliptical coil and just use the APEX for shallower 6" or less target hunting. I like everything about the APEX except for its inability to handle iron mineralization, its less than accurate target IDs and its only average target separation. Unfortunately I hunt in those conditions 15 times a year or less. I have other detectors that perform even better in those conditions anyway including the Simplex. 

If Garrett is able to provide a more advanced form of simultaneous multi frequency technology in their "all terrain" line of detectors someday, I would certainly be interested in those detectors.

[kac]

Apex handles the iron infestation here very well so not sure what you mean. As for falsing I had that issue before but not with the replaced coil and My buddies Apex doesn't have that issue. There are some spots that you need to drop the gain either because of EMI or because there maybe too much ground noise.

As for any magnetic contamination like magnetite, I have yet to see any IB machine handle that and eveny my friends with their Nox's have exactly the same signal distortion. Ground like that you have no alternative other than a PI.

I still believe that many of the issues you have are because of a marginal coil.