9" Round HF Sensitivity To Thin Flat Iron Question

[Bushranger]

This is a timely thread as I was out for the first time with my newly purchased ORX today and struggled with any consisted ID of iron items. So much so I was wondering if I have received a faulty ORX! As an example one target gave a solid 97 in both coin fast and coin deep. Even with a 7-10inch plug gone and item still deeper with coil in the hole ..solid 97 and zero bars re probability of iron. Digging slightly deeper the mystery object was a large flat piece of iron plating. Even out of the ground the ORX is giving the plate a solid 97 and showing zero likelihood of iron. Is this normal, is there something I have missed or should I be concerned? Any help would be much appreaciated.

[Chase Goldman]

What frequency and coil were you using?  Flat round iron tends to wrap around easily to the high 90’s on ORX and Deus and since the detector is being “fooled” in those circumstances, you will likely not get an iron probability reading unless the ID also bounces into the ferrous range.  Deus has additional settings (silencer) and setups (TID free to vary with frequency, pitch audio) that help better ID iron that is wrapping around and falsing high.  ORX lacks these features.  As mentioned previously by Jeff McClendon, you can interrogate the target in Gold mode with a high iron audio reject setting to see if the audio breaks up in gold mode.  Usually you just have to take your medicine on round flat iron and dig it to be 100% sure.  

[F350Platinum]

4 hours ago, Bushranger said:

This is a timely thread as I was out for the first time with my newly purchased ORX today and struggled with any consisted ID of iron items. So much so I was wondering if I have received a faulty ORX! As an example one target gave a solid 97 in both coin fast and coin deep. Even with a 7-10inch plug gone and item still deeper with coil in the hole ..solid 97 and zero bars re probability of iron. Digging slightly deeper the mystery object was a large flat piece of iron plating. Even out of the ground the ORX is giving the plate a solid 97 and showing zero likelihood of iron. Is this normal, is there something I have missed or should I be concerned? Any help would be much appreaciated.

You should try a tip that Chase showed me. Swing the detector a foot or more above the target when you get a signal like that. Every time I have tried to dig one of those strong signals (another detector) it always turns out to be a huge piece of iron or steel. I ignore them for the most part now, especially since I don't find anything at the depth indicated.

[Jeff McClendon]

7 hours ago, Bushranger said:

This is a timely thread as I was out for the first time with my newly purchased ORX today and struggled with any consisted ID of iron items. So much so I was wondering if I have received a faulty ORX! As an example one target gave a solid 97 in both coin fast and coin deep. Even with a 7-10inch plug gone and item still deeper with coil in the hole ..solid 97 and zero bars re probability of iron. Digging slightly deeper the mystery object was a large flat piece of iron plating. Even out of the ground the ORX is giving the plate a solid 97 and showing zero likelihood of iron. Is this normal, is there something I have missed or should I be concerned? Any help would be much appreaciated.

I had an ORX for over a year. I really liked it for relic hunting and for gold prospecting. For coin and jewelry in thick aluminum trash, it would not be on my top five list. I mostly used it in the Gold modes for prospecting and when hunting for deep relics with just a little discrimination using Iron Amplitude Rejection of 1 or 2 to break up the audio on shallow iron targets. Disc IAR did not have much or any effect on deep iron. In the Coin Fast and Coin Deep modes I did not pay much attention to the target ID numbers or the iron probability meter which from my experience were only somewhat accurate on shallower targets. The Deus is a little better but those two visual aids are not what these detectors are all about. The audio on the ORX and especially the Deus can tell you all you need to know. 

When you are over any type of iron/steel target and you are using some form of iron discrimination, you will hear the target’s audio splutter, stutter, crackle, break up, sometimes high tone, sometimes iron tone depending on swing speed, swing direction and what part of the coil-center spine or outer edge is detecting the target. All of these things are telling you there is an iron based target under your coil somewhere, no matter what the iron probability bar on the ORX or the horseshoe graph on the Deus and the target IDs are telling you.....

If it isn’t a ferrous target, the audio is generally crystal clear and consistent on two way swings for shallow to medium depth targets. The audio will be very quiet and high tone on most deeper non-ferrous targets and the numbers if there are any will be in the 90s which is why I usually hunt in two or three tones for deep relics and for gold prospecting since the numbers really don’t mean much on deep and really small, shallow targets.

[kac]

My bigger concern with the 9" HF is the blindness to iron objects, last night in local park I was watch the phase meter and sure enough dug it to find a chunk of iron. No audio no iron grunt, just a jump on the phase meter. Concerned me enough to think that the line where ground mineralization and what is a physical object is off on the machine and believe it should be updated.

I assume this quirk (won't say bug or flaw or peoples blood pressure will sore through the roof and don't want anyone to have a stroke over it) was enoug for me to email XP to see what they say. Oddly the Americas site doesn't have any email support so time will tell.

And this blindness is in coin modes of any frequency. Gold modes you will hear a target but no id's so hunting in gold mode in some the areas is not a productive option for me. I tend to hunt in a disc mode first to scout out an area and if I get iffy targets will switch to an all metal mode to further investigate. Something I always have done with my Tejon and have adapted to on my other machines.

[Joe D.]

     No judgement here! I actually think that this is a good catch on your part, no matter how or why it's doing this! May help others down the road! That being said, being a new detector, I would hope the response you get from the manufacturer either solves the issue, or they replace, or repair your unit! Good information, regardless!

And I'm out of likes for now! I'll hit you, Jeff, and a few others back, when I get a refill! I'm always running a deficit, when trying to catch up on the forum! So much to like!😁👍👍

[Jeff McClendon]

Kac is describing one type of possible iron issue where there seems to be no audio response over iron targets.

I would like to know exactly what mode and settings are being used in those instances.

Bushranger is describing something very different. The following video might help. Its worth a watch just for Gary's dog's detecting skills.

 

[Chase Goldman]

50 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I would like to know exactly what mode and settings are being used in those instances.

And if that doesn't reveal anything, Ken might just have to send me that flat tin top after all so I can see if I can replicate the issue.  

[Joe D.]

     Enjoyed the video! Very informative! Thanks Jeff!

   It's funny, even though I've never used an Orx or Deus, I see many commonalities with other detectors, when it comes to investigating a target!

    I believe it's a lot like splitting hairs these days, with most modern detectors! Everyone has their favorite to use, but most all of us have more than one we still use, or keep around for various reasons! There's alot of overlap amongst them, but it funny how we always feel in-tune with a particular unit, over the others! Nothing wrong with that; and no reason that should ever change! "Different strokes for different folks" as long as we don't loose perspective that they are only tools, and we are the brains of the operation! Nothing "yet" can replace that!👍👍

[kac]

As I said stock coin modes the point where ground mineralization overlaps minimal iron targets is the issue. This may explain why bottle caps though they sound bad do not have any iron audio off edge of the coil. Wondering if the whole scale is mapped higher because on the Gold Racer 56khz a aluminum can would be in the 86-86 and similar frequency on the 9"hf is about 10 points higher in many cases.

Last question did XP have variations in batches on the machines, maybe some have a different firmware?

Chase do you have the x-35 coil too? If so might be worth testing that target against both coils.