A "holy Grail" In Jewelry Hunting Has Been Achieved!

[Digalicious]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

We get it Dig, you think visual displays are useless for jewelry hunters. 

To be clear, I think the Manticore's Target Trace is useless when it comes to distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. Or, even more specifically, it's no better than TID and/or tones for doing so.

I'm eager for relevant debate and acquiring knowledge, but no one has yet to give an exact example to refute my point which was generalized in my first post, elaborated on with my intermediate posts, then presented in a specific debate form in my previous post. 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

At first, this topic was partially about how the Manticore's Target Trace does not show a visual depiction of the target's actual shape. 

I think that everyone that has responded would agree, Target Trace similar to Deus 1 and Deus 2's XY graph does not show the actual target's shape. Target Trace is not ground penetrating radar or some kind of magic. As some have said, it is a visual interpretation of target ID information.

Another part of the OP's original argument is that Target Trace

41 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

is useless when it comes to distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry.

That is a very generalized statement and I can't enter into a debate about something that broad.

I hunt for gold and silver rings most of the time. Sometimes I get other types of jewelry too.

I have never used a Manticore and I won't presume or assume that I can make any kind of definitive statement about the effectiveness or not of the Manticore's Target Trace combined with its target ID accuracy and audio except to say what I have already said about it earlier in the topic. 

The vast majority of the gold rings I have found in the last three years using simultaneous multi frequency detectors have had one single target ID. There have been a couple of exceptions. I have very effectively used Deus 1 and Deus 2's XY graph to help support a dig decision on some of these gold rings because of the bold, dense lines exhibited on the XY graph similar to what I see with US nickels even when they were in the 4 to 6" depth range. That bold, dense visual quality of the line graph is also reflected in the audio of those targets and their single digit target ID. Sure, canslaw can sometimes have similar characteristics and so can some well oriented pull tabs. I am going to dig those targets if I notice them and if they appear to be coin sized for sure. I don't mind if that means I dig 25, 50 or 100 pieces of canslaw and pull tabs to every gold ring I find. For me it's worth it and I will take any information that the detector I am using can give me and be happy for it.

Have I walked over some borderline responses in really trashy areas that may have been gold jewelry........no doubt.

  

[Digalicious]

1 hour ago, abenson said:

I haven't read this whole thread but I can tell you that TT can tell irregular shaped targets from round targets. 

Hi Abenson.

TT can't tell anything more than TID can on a specific nonferrous target, because TT is just displaying the ID in a "dot" from. Granted, some might prefer dots over numbers, but that doesn't mean TT is better than TID. In fact, it can be easily argued that TT is less accurate on individual targets because TID provides a specific number, whereas TT shows a dot in a "range" of conductivity. Furthermore, irregular shaped objects can show a single TID and a single TT dot, just as easily as a round target can show more than a single TID and more than a single dot on TT, due mainly to the target's orientation, depth, and swing approach angle.

With all that said, my whole assertion is actually about distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. If you want, check out a post I made a few posts back, which gives three TT scenarios. If you have an example that can disprove that post, I would happy to hear it 🙂

 

[Digalicious]

Jeff,

We've butted heads on a few occasions, but you are one of the most prolific and knowledgeable hunters that I know of when it comes to jewelry hunting in the dirt. As such, I don't let my emotions get involved, and can admit that I truly value your opinion on this matter.

You don't need to own a Manticore to know that TT is fundamentally and quite simply, an ID plotter with a decay rate. So knowing that Jeff, can you think of any example in which TT can distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry better than TID and/or tones?

[Jeff McClendon]

14 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Jeff,

We've butted heads on a few occasions, but you are one of the most prolific and knowledgeable hunters that I know of when it comes to jewelry hunting in the dirt. As such, I don't let my emotions get involved, and can admit that I truly value your opinion on this matter.

You don't need to own a Manticore to know that TT is fundamentally and quite simply, an ID plotter with a decay rate. So knowing that Jeff, can you think of any example in which TT can distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry better than TID and/or tones?

Like I said earlier,

38 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

That is a very generalized statement and I can't enter into a debate about something that broad.

I don't like butting heads or arguing with you or anyone. That does not make this hobby fun and enjoyable.

Like others I prefer to hunt instead of taking shots at detectors, especially ones that I don't own.

If this topic is helping you decide if a Manticore or some other detector with the current 2D visual target ID mapping features is in your future....great.

Otherwise, I don't see where this is actually helping potential buyers or new users since actual owners of detectors that have similar 2D features have responded with their own experiences and the debate and arguing still wants to be continued.

I happily take whatever information a detector can give me. I have my Deus 2 coin and jewelry custom program setup so that I have the normal horseshoe graph of that program and the exact same program using the XY graph right next to each other so I can toggle between them. I use that very often to help determine a dig/no dig decision on many types of targets if I need more information. I don't sweat it, I just use it.

[Digalicious]

22 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

 

If this topic is helping you decide if a Manticore or some other detector with the current 2D visual target ID mapping features is in your future....great.

Otherwise, I don't see where this is actually helping potential buyers or new users since actual owners of detectors that have similar 2D features have responded with their own experiences and the debate and arguing still wants to be continued.

 

If someone could give me an example of how TT can distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum, I would buy a Manticore today. So yes. If someone could show that, it would be of help to me, and probably help to all hunters who are thinking about buying a Manticore.

Further to that however, is the hunter in my original post telling newbies that TT can do that and show the shape of targets. To which I obviously find laughably ludicrous on both counts. Again, when I see newbies being misled (especially for profit), I feel compelled (perhaps illogically so), to show the other side of the story.

 

[abenson]

8 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

If someone could give me an example of how TT can distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum, I would buy a Manticore today. So yes. If someone could show that, it would be of help to me, and probably help to all hunters who are thinking about buying a Manticore.

Further to that however, is the hunter in my original post telling newbies that TT can do that and show the shape of targets. To which I obviously find laughably ludicrous on both counts. Again, when I see newbies being misled (especially for profit), I feel compelled (perhaps illogically so), to show the other side of the story.

 

Below is a video I did in back in about March of this year. I was at Digstock in NC and many of the home sites had shredded aluminum on them. I was continually picking coins from the sea of aluminum trashy sites that others were giving up on. It also worked at telling pieces of 1/4 copper tubing and rifle cartridges. Will it work at a park to tell small pieces of foil from rings? I don't know. But I do know that target trace will work on telling can slaw from coins. I'm not out to prove anything to anybody. Use the TT to your benefit or don't, I really don't care. I do enjoy using my Manticore and it's been a great detector for relic sites this year.

At about the 3 minute mark I explain and show how it works.

 

[Jeff McClendon]

37 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

If someone could give me an example of how TT can distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum, I would buy a Manticore today. So yes. If someone could show that, it would be of help to me, and probably help to all hunters who are thinking about buying a Manticore.

Further to that however, is the hunter in my original post telling newbies that TT can do that and show the shape of targets. To which I obviously find laughably ludicrous on both counts. Again, when I see newbies being misled (especially for profit), I feel compelled (perhaps illogically so), to show the other side of the story.

 

Andy and Strick already did. I gave you some correlating information from a different brand of detector that uses a similar target ID based 2D feature. 

I don't have anything else to add to the how to tell gold rings and gold jewelry from aluminum trash or any other type of non-ferrous targets with overlapping IDs in the low and mid conductor range.

I dig as many US nickels, US zinc pennies and good sounding non-ferrous targets with similar solid IDs below and up to those coins, with smaller footprints and very distinctive 2D mapping indications as I physically am able along with making sure I hunt in likely gold ring/jewerly areas.  If I don't find any gold jewelry using all of those tools, I do usually come home with plenty of nickels and zinc pennies!

I wish finding gold rings and gold jewelry was as easy as finding silver rings/jewelry by digging all high conductive US coin target IDs. It just isn't. But it is super rewarding and satisfying no matter what techniques are employed.

[Erik Oostra]

10 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I have the normal horseshoe graph of that program and the exact same program using the XY graph right next to each other so I can toggle between them

That's a very good idea Jeff, I might have to nick it.. Being hard of hearing, I'll use any info I can get to identify iffy targets, even if it's just splotches or dots on a screen.. If used together with other info like target sound, target ID numbers, ferrous/non-ferrous ID, depth of target per gauge and past experience, you'll get a good idea of what it is.. If not, dig it and find out.. Tuck away what you've learned and use the info for the next iffy target.. 🙂

As you noted, going hunting is a better way to learn about a detector than bitching about it online..  

[Digalicious]

49 minutes ago, abenson said:

Below is a video I did in back in about March of this year. I was at Digstock in NC and many of the home sites had shredded aluminum on them. I was continually picking coins from the sea of aluminum trashy sites that others were giving up on. It also worked at telling pieces of 1/4 copper tubing and rifle cartridges. Will it work at a park to tell small pieces of foil from rings? I don't know. But I do know that target trace will work on telling can slaw from coins. I'm not out to prove anything to anybody. Use the TT to your benefit or don't, I really don't care. I do enjoy using my Manticore and it's been a great detector for relic sites this year.

At about the 3 minute mark I explain and show how it works.

Thank you for the video.

Your video is about coins. As you know, most coins and most aluminum trash is easy for any detector that has TDI or even just basic discrimination. Reason being of course, is that most coins ID above most foil, tabs, and aluminum caps. There's always exceptions, but for the most part, that is true.

My assertion abenson, is specifically about gold rings and aluminum trash like said tabs, foil, and caps, that pretty much blanket typical sites like parks, playgrounds, etc. What I'm saying is that TT can't help with that any more than TID can.