Nickels Vs Tabs

[Mountain Mike]

It looks like I have an 800 coming next week but I will feel better when I get the tracking number. I Do a fair amount of park hunting and see that the tabs and the nickels seem to hit about the same on the Equinox. Now that there are a few machines out there I wonder who has figured out any way to tell nickels from tabs. Has anyone found a way to at least up the odds on nickels vs tabs? I am familiar with some of the Deus tricks (raising the coil) (frequency shift) etc. Have any of these tricks helped with the Equinox?

[Steve Herschbach]

This is one of those areas where I almost never see what I consider to be a correct answer given. I guess because I am an expert on finding gold with a detector I have an edge in that regard.

The truth is it is pure statistics. There is an aluminum target for every possible target id result from 0 all the way up to the aluminum can reading which is in the high coin range. The number of sizes, shapes, and orientation of aluminum in the ground results in a near infinite target id spread from zero all the way to aluminum can.

Increasing target id resolution does give you better separation to a limited degree. On a non-ferrous scale reading from 0 to 50 you have half the potential results of a non-ferrous scale reading 0 to 100. If nickel target id numbers in the ground were 100% spot on reliable this means you can better separate a nickel result from close but not the same aluminum results. However, no matter what the resolution, there will always be some aluminum that reads EXACTLY like a nickel and you can't escape them.

Further, how well does the nickel hold target id at depth? This is a strength in Equinox regardless of how you divide up the scale, and single frequency detectors will typically get more erratic with depth faster than the Equinox. That means if you're focused to much on a single target id number as meaning nickel you are going to miss nickels. Most smart hunters with high resolution machines know this and take a few numbers to either side of the theoretical perfect number to help avoid it.

Now, take all that and add location. Let's say your park has lots of people leaving cans around and a park guy who would rather chop them up with a lawnmower than pick them up. Aluminum by the ton, and again, a piece for every target id number possible. This is where it turns into statistics and smart jewelry hunters will play various statistical games with jewelry. A nickel you have no choice. You have to dig what your machine says is a nickel. However, the amount of aluminum you dig will be 100% dependent on the exact location and what has been happening there.

Some parks do have aluminum by the ton. On the other hand, some places frequented by jewelry hunters will be nearly free of aluminum. I run into a sports field now and then where it is hard to find aluminum. Why? A jewelry hunter like me will dig every non-ferrous signal in a soccer field. If you think that is nuts you don't know jewelry detecting. Why would I do that? Because for every aluminum signal there is a gold item that can read the same. Period. End of story. Not open for debate. The amount of aluminum at any location is usually in direct relation to the amount of modern activity. It can vary though. A place with strict littering laws and enforcement may have less aluminum. A park where people party a lot has a lot more. Urban parks versus rural parks. On and on and on.

In my world a nickel is just another gold range target. Interestingly enough the nickel range is weak on gold rings. Women's rings tend to fall lower on the scale and mens rings higher, so nickel is an important reference point for jewelry hunters.

Anyone who thinks they can specifically dig any gold range item including nickels and somehow game the system entirely through target id has not been to enough places and dug enough targets, especially in highly mineralized ground. The true answer and true result is location dependent. You can play the odds all you want, but ignoring any signal that is close to what you are seeking comes with a risk because of everything I have said above. Equinox does have a little lower resolution than some machines which combined with its inherent ability means a fairly tight and stable result on nickels. For me in the parks I have hunted so far that has me digging some aluminum for nickels but not in any way I consider excessive. Another person at another location could get buried in aluminum.

As much faith as I have in Equinox it has limits and right now if I was a nickel monster determined not to ever miss a nickel I would at minimum dig even more aluminum by digging all 11 12 13 and 14 targets for quite some time with particular focus of very deep weak signals until I got a better idea of just how much variance might occur on nickels in extreme soil conditions. With more experience I might narrow that down but ultimately I do not trust any discrimination system made. On the other hand if I am being lazy and want to focus it more I will dig only a solid 13. But some nickels clearly go 12/13 and there are probably a few 12s out there. And at extreme edge of depth? The really good stuff? You have to accept that no system is perfect and those more willing to dig "iffy" targets often make the best finds.

A favorite book of mine on the subject would appear to be about the DFX and appear to be about gold but it really is all about aluminum range targets and some statistical methods for avoiding aluminum. DFX Gold Methods by Clive Clynick.

I am an admitted weirdo on this whole subject. I consider aluminum to be a good thing and pull tabs in particular. Why? Because it runs off the faint of heart and it is all hiding good targets from those not willing to dig aluminum of the scale that I am willing to do it. I have no problem just digging aluminum all day. 1970's pull tabs tell me the place has never been seriously hunted for gold rings. The surface layer if nothing else is masking what lies below. I will however also cherry pick depending on time constraints and my mood. But I never under any circumstances kid myself that I am doing anything other than playing the odds and somebody can come right behind me and make that fabulous find I was hoping for all along.

I guess I could have posted "nope, got no special tricks - dig, dig, dig!"  If target id is about right and it sounds good, I dig it.

[Steve Herschbach]

A detector that makes you dig something and is wrong only makes you dig a piece of trash. A detector that tells you not to dig a target because it is trash could be wrong and you just missed your first gold coin. It's far less expensive to dig and be wrong then not dig and be wrong. I therefore advocate looking for reasons to dig, not reasons to avoid digging. The difference might be subtle but I think it is one thing that divides people making great finds from everyone else.

[Mountain Mike]

14 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I am an admitted weirdo on this whole subject.

Well look on the bright side at least you're the head weirdo.  I hear what you're saying about digging and not missing targets. Some days I just go coin popping for the fun of it. I have a couple spots that are just loaded with clad and I use it to pay for coils and such.  I was just hoping someone has spotted a "tell" one way or the other. I will investigate the book.

[Steve Herschbach]

The only tell I can identify is that the deeper the signal appears to be, the more you had better be digging it. Yet to this day some shallow small items trick me into thinking they are deeper large items. I admit to a lack of patience with target analysis because in the time I can take to walk around and shift modes and think some more and then try that - I can just dig it.

People have lots of tricks and I hope my "dissertation" does not shut down further discussion. At the end of the day it's just my opinion on things and others will differ and that's great! I am all ears if anyone has some way to tell with any degree of certainty good from bad beyond the basic "it sounds round" which is real in my opinion. My ring cherry picking is based on "roundness" but it does get me all those round ring pull tabs also. Which is why I am kind of fond of ring pull tabs. 

[Mountain Mike]

Hopefully I will have my detector by the end of the week and can do my own experiments. And at the end of the day there might not be any "tells" at all but it will be fun trying to find one. I plan on digging all the signals till I figure it out. I also agree about the round sound.

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

Every time a person passes on a target, they could be passing a very nice find.

Use this info here at your own risk.

Chasing nickels with Equinox.

These are my experiences solely.

If you see 14 come in Nox's window odds are not a nickel.

If you see a 10 come in the window odds are not a nickel.

The number 12 seems to be the sweet spot.  But some can give 11s and yes 13s.

Pull rings with the tabs wrapped around ring can read 13.

Pull rings and tabs stretched out in the wild likely will read 14,15.16 area.

Expect nickels shallower to give more robust signal vs a junk aluminum that reads like a nickel ID wise.

Deep nickels like (in medium mineralized soil) and deep I am talking down past 9" deep may start reading low. Especially the ones in the 10-11" range.

I don't dig every target everywhere I detect.  Don't have time, and I'm gambling they are junk targets.

If a person decides to create a nickel window and say assigning high tone to be alerted.  Don't get to greedy.  I would assign 11-14 ID wise for my window.  You can alway walk on the ones giving 14 in the window.  But if you get too greedy with a more narrow window you might cramp Equinox's style a bit for reporting tonally.  

Equinox is a big time nickel hound.

Cheers.

[Toddbbq]

No (Tells) for me so far and I have had it out 2 times this week at the beach. I was kind of surprised at the number of rusty bottle caps has increased in my find bag.

[strick]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

In my world a nickel is just another gold range target. Interestingly enough the nickel range is weak on gold rings. Women's rings tend to fall lower on the scale and mens rings higher, so nickel is an important reference point for jewelry hunters.

 

I have noticed this...most of the gold rings I have found are below the nickel range...I'm still waiting for that 12.13-12.15 Gold ring so I keep digging nickels....Wonderful post...and I hate the guy with the lawn mower. 

strick  

[strick]

6 minutes ago, Toddbbq said:

No (Tells) for me so far and I have had it out 2 times this week at the beach. I was kind of surprised at the number of rusty bottle caps has increased in my find bag.

Bottle caps have been talked about...I've been looking at the finds guys are posting and there are few if any in the bag so either they are keen to avoiding them or are not showing them. The rusty ones are probably easy to avoid...but I have zillions in the parks where I live and my CTX clearly tells me when it is one.... EVERY TIME  Hopefully I can do the same with the horse. 

strick