Jump to content

Tele-knox Detecting Innovations Equinox S-stem Telescopic Carbon Stem


Recommended Posts

On 2/5/2021 at 7:57 AM, steveg said:

Steve --  it's interesting that you like one or the other type of shaft, at different times, with different machines, but that you'd vote for a S-shaft for the Equinox if you had your druthers.  Interesting, and an interesting discussion (at least for my admittedly odd mind!)

I have a Ace Apex sitting here and a NM Gold Kruzer. Both have a very nice, stout, S rod.

I also have an Equinox and Simplex, both light, both straight shafts. The center of gravity feels under my arm, bottom heavy. The S rods have a better "inline" feel, less rotational effect, which exhibits best when you reverse the swing.

On heavier machines this bottom heavy feel actually seems to work best for detectors that hang from a bungee, like the GPX 5000, ATX, or GPZ 7000. All the big guns are straight shaft and having swung them for thousands of hours, I’d say that is the correct choice. But as the machines get lighter, I have a definite preference for S rod, with Fisher F75 representing a near perfect weight and balance feel - to my arm.

I don't delve into the science much. I grab them and swing them and some feel great, others not. A perfectly balanced machine always wins, even if a little heavier, so I think balance is a top issue. But again, at a certain level, nobody cares. I think a Deus is nose heavy, but most people think it is God's gift, simply because it is so light.

Whatever, just some comments on what I like. Detectors are like boots, and people will never agree on any one thing being best. Just find the boot that fits you best.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have a Ace Apex sitting here and a NM Gold Kruzer. Both have a very nice, stout, S rod.

I also have an Equinox and Simplex, both light, both straight shafts. The center of gravity feels under my arm, bottom heavy. The S rods have a better "inline" feel, less rotational effect, which exhibits best when you reverse the swing.

On heavier machines this bottom heavy feel actually seems to work best for detectors that hang from a bungee, like the GPX 5000, ATX, or GPZ 7000. All the big guns are straight shaft and having swng them for thousands of hours, that is the correct choice. But as the machines get lighter, I have a definite preference for S rod, with Fisher F75 representing a near perfect weight and balance feel - to my arm.

I don't delve into the science much. I grab them and swing them and some feel great, others not. A perfectly balanced machine always wins, even is a little heavier, so I think balance is a top issue. But again, at a certain level, nobody cares. I think a Deus is nose heavy, but most people think it is God's gift, simply because it is so light.

Whatever, just some comments on what I like. Detectors are like boots, and people will never agree on any one thing being best. Just find the boot that fits you best.

Steve, interesting points/observations.  Makes sense, and you are talking about that same "rotational" feel when switching directions as GB was describing, and you say that the S-shaft feels like it reduces that for you, giving you a more "in-line" feel than a straight shaft -- also what GB seemed to be implying.  

Aside from all of this, yes -- a balanced shaft should nearly always feel better than an imbalanced one.  Obviously, the lighter the better, overall, for a machine, but if you focus TOO heavily on strictly going "as light as possible," without considering balance/ergonomics (which is from my view what Minelab did with the Equinox), then the machine can still be uncomfortable for some to swing, especially after many hours swinging.

Bottom line, you are right.  Finding something that everyone agrees on is essentially impossible!  But, nothing wrong with that...

Steve

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2021 at 10:27 AM, steveg said:

but if you focus TOO heavily on strictly going "as light as possible," without considering balance/ergonomics (which is from my view what Minelab did with the Equinox), then the machine can still be uncomfortable for some to swing, especially after many hours swinging.

Absolutely agree Steve. Problem is simple. There is no spec in price lists for balance. Everyone compares weight, and less weight seems better. The thing now is to be gunning for your detector to come in under 3 pounds. 2.9 pounds good, 3 pounds bad! And feels great if a person in the store grabs and holds it. The finer details of the ergonomics only become apparent over long hours of use.

One trip to the UK I took my very trusty Whites MXT and my newish Fisher F75, both Dave Johnson detectors. The F75 was a dream to swing hard and long all day. The last time I used an MXT was that trip, as after one particularly vigorous day, I was flat on my back. I sold it when I got home, and never looked back. I was MXT fan #1, but it was the ergonomics, not performance, that made me decide to move on. This stuff matters, and for me will be a deciding factor if two detectors are otherwise well matched.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Absolutely agree Steve. Problem is simple. There is no spec in price lists for balance. Everyone compares weight, and less weight seems better. The thing now is to be gunning for your detector to come in under 3 pounds. 2.9 pounds good, 3 pounds bad! And feels great if a person in the store grabs and holds it. The finer details of the ergonomics only become apparent over long hours of use.

One trip to the UK I took my very trusty Whites MXT and my newish Fisher F75, both Dave Johnson detectors. The F75 was a dream to swing hard and long all day. The last time I used an MXT was that trip, as after one particularly vigorous day, I was flat on my back. I sold it when I got home, and never looked back. I was MXT fan #1, but it was the ergonomics, not performance, that made me decide to move on. This stuff matters, and for me will be a deciding factor if two detectors are otherwise well matched.

Steve --

I absolutely agree with you about the focus right now on detectors being LIGHT -- with the aim to be under 3 pounds.  That's exactly my perception -- an obsession with absolute weight (even if at the expense of ergonomics which, just as you noted, only becomes apparent to a user over long hours in the field).

Interesting story about the F75 and MXT.  I REMEMBER when you were a huge fan of the MXT, and although I never used one, that machine had MANY fans (even as a small nugget finder, if I recall some of your old posts).  But, like you said, ergonomics are certainly something worth considering, especially if you are choosing between two relatively evenly match machines, performance-wise...

Totally agree.

Steve

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

rvpopeye -- yep, that could certainly be done, and might be "the best of both worlds," so to speak.  But I'd have to design that S-shaft first, and somehow make it compatible with BOTH the Garrett units, AND the Equinox...

Steve

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The devil is in the details.... good luck with your decisions.

 Anything you come up with or not  has to be right for you. 

You sure seem to be on the right track so far. Keep up the good work.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

rvpopeye --


Thanks!
 

Steve

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A very interesting read, and some great depth of thought going on. I do have to wonder why a cheap and easy plug and play S shaft solution isn't on the market yet - and I'm thinking along the lines of adapting the right size alloy tube with a pipe bender, and drill. A solution that's already in use (it's out there on the web somewhere).

For some it makes no difference either way (straight or S). For me a vintage arm injury, and just what might be termed 'muscle memory' - and that's not just arm muscle, but eyes watching the ground and feet movement in relation to slow and low coil sweep. As a very awkward customer S shaft works for me - so I made my own using what I had to hand - after all wood is the original carbon fibre

   Equinox S Stem Using The Mars Universal / Deus Shaft & Some Curtain Pole

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By palzynski
      The Apex balance/weight is very good but as I thought it could be improved , I decided to update it a little bit ... 🙂
      My modifs :
      1)  polymer lower shaft replaced by an home made carbon shaft :       30g saved
      2) aluminium mid shaft replaced by an home made carbon shaft :       40g saved 
      3) rubber handle replaced by a lighter foam handle :                             30g saved
      4) armrest replaced by a lighter and wider ML Vanquish armrest         50g saved
      note : I have kept the original aluminium S shaped upper shaft , just the lower and mid shafts have been replaced by carbon shafts
      Total : 150g saved 
      After these modifs my Apex/Ripper only weights 960g /2.1 lbs  👍!  
      ( vs 1110g/ 2.4lbs for the original Apex/Ripper ) 
      I spent a little time doing this but it was worth the effort  ,  very few detectors weight under 1kg , and now my Apex balance is almost the same as a Deus/Orx and it is very fun to use in the field ... 🙂




    • By Airtemisa
      Hi, does anyone tried this config for diving with the Nox?
      Is just the original stem only with the lower part of the rod. Is a little bit long, but I think it should work! 

    • By NCtoad
      I have one of the first runs of the equinox.  Got on a wait list with a dealer and got mine in April or May of 2018 (please correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I think I’ve had my nox for 3 years now).  I had a slight case of the shaft wobble issue and ended up getting an Anderson carbon fiber upper and lower rods.  When Steve first came out with his rods I inquired about getting just the upper from him mostly for the cam lock, but also for the balance pod.  We sent some messages back and forth and realized that the Anderson lower rod was a slightly larger diameter and wasn’t compatible with Steve’s upper rod.  Since I had just shelled out $150 on the Anderson I decided I would make my own balance pod.  I had some 6/6 nylon rod and had this big piece of aluminum left over from another project.  You can see from the pic how it works.  The aluminum counter weight can be slid closer or farther from the fulcrum point (the equinox control box grip) to fine tune the balance.  I forget what the nylon rod and counter weight weighs, but even with the counter weight slid all the way to the end, it still doesn’t perfectly balance the 11” coil, however it’s nearly perfect for the 6” coil.  I wanted the overall weight of the detector as light as possible, but still help significantly with the balance.  I think I got it at a fairly sweet spot between balance and overall weight.  

    • By Rick N. MI
      I got the rod from Bulgaria.
       

    • By Kiwi RU
      Hi All,has anyone purchased these on EBay,ordered one and took 20 days to arrive from the Ukraine to NewZealand,Quality appears to be excellent except for the armcup  so fabricated a new assembly in alloy to add a bit of bling and welded in a shelf to take a power bank which is held in by a couple of rubber bands. The balance is now a lot better with the 10” coil.

       

    • By Al F
      Since I put the 15 inch coil on my 800, I’ve noticed the balance is now NOSE HEAVY....is there a fix to balance it out...ie not be so NOSE HEAVY....??
×
×
  • Create New...