Swampstomper Al

Longhn -- Thanks so much for the add'l info and overview.. Andyy -- You nailed it.. Steve had already moved the thread early on.. Now with the add'l info & photos supplied I too agree a new thread kicking off with longhn's overview should among other things attract responses from those familiar with the geology of this area.. Looking Fw to the hopefully forthcoming insights.. Swamp

Fun, huh..? Welll, we do have slightly negative early afternoon low tides this week, so we should be able to get to the curb.. GL & HH.. Swamp

The clue is the silver, 1 up 1 left from the .585.. Swamp

Just finished reading your thread.. Read the first one n a half pages sometime in the past.. Love the progression..! I also think you're in a better head space now for taking on the relics.. GL Swamp

I assume you've read this 1913 bulletin re geology of the gold belt in the James River Basin VA, but in case you haven't here's the link: https://www.dmme.virginia.gov/commercedocs/BUL_7.pdf With the info contained herein and making the assumption your accessable acreage is in near proximity you should be able to equate trends.. The other scattered gold bearing areas in VA may or may not also be touched upon.. Since I don't completely understand your desire / drive to detect a nugget or find a patch other than to just do so when you're already on the gold, I would offer the suggestion to "reverse engineer" those possible finds by backtracking from where the vein(s) are entering the streams / waterways.. Or at least these sound like good starting points to me short of visible outcroppings.. FWIW.. Swamp EDIT: I was making the assumption the stream(s) are located on the property to which you have access..

I have zero experience with the Zed but enough experience with east coast conditions.. Two more replies just popped up, so first thing I'm going to say is: What everyone else has said so far.. To be totally honest with you, if I had it to do over again I would have never bought any kind of gold-only detector with expectations of it being worth any more than any other shiny-only object for here in the east.. I don't even bring a gold-only detector with me anymore when I head up N GA or NC.. Might bring the MD 20 by accident if it's hiding in the bottom of a pack.. You have been doing it the best way for today.. I don't even own a dredge because I can't justify the expense.. Too far away; wouldn't get enough use n would rot pieces-parts waiting for the next time to be used.. I can't justify a hi-banker either.. Sluice n pan n that's it for me man.. I gave up the idea of getting rich in the eastern gold fields a long time ago.. If you're on the gold, especially in VA, I say get it the way you have been in the past.. Ain't no gold-only detector made that'll ever pay for itself much less make money here in the east.. The best to hope for with a detector this side of the Mississippi is find the vein and hard rock it.. Other than that find that large load of micro gold any way you can and surface mine / open pit it.. This last one isn't a weekend thing or a cheap proposition, but it is being done in SC as I type.. Swamp

Well, unlike NPS I suppose as long as the BLM feels it is necessary to remind folks it is a big-time no-no destroying and/or removing Native American and/or otherwise historical and/or prehistorical "stuff" from lands under its protection and supervision I am glad to see they are holding the warning posters in place by driving galvanized nails into trees.. It really bothered me when they cheaped out and used regular nails that would rust apart, lose their heads and leave tetanus-causers sticking out to prick unwary hands, shoulders and heads.. I am also happy to see they are now using the last-forever non-biodegradable vinyl-like-covered laser printable material as the notices as well.. That see-thru slot to check underneath for hidden rot..? Genius..! Those olde-style biodegradable cardboard-paper ones were sooo sloppy, what with all that breaking down and falling apart thing, eventually leaving no trace they ever existed if someone never came by ever again to change 'em out.. This way, in another fifty or one-hundred years, depending, we'll have a brand new classification of relics for future generations to discover. It's also the main reason we can't get forest-floor rakers hired though; either one or the other they said -- can't have both.. Swamp

It was almost the right year, GBA.. An 1897-O would have paid for everything.. Heck, he'll be lucky to get a couple three four hun for that one.. Swamp

Yeah, about that... May be too late to heed this sage advice.. Take another look at the obverse.. It didn't register in my brain either the first time I saw the pix.. I keep hoping it came out of the ground like that, but... ---------- Probably the best way for D'art to find out what the numismatic community sees / thinks is: If he deceides to get this coin graded & slabbed, I know that PCGS will / does encapsulate and grade both cleaned and/or scratched coins.. If the graders determine a coin has been cleaned (they differentiate between 'rub marks' vs 'scratches') the coin's grade information within the slab will read: "<Problem> -- <Grade> Details" rather than showing grade only.. The coin's numerical ID will include a two-digit No Grade Code as well.. An example: Let's say this $1 gold coin graded XF-40.. The grade line instead of reading only: XF-40, would instead read: Cleaning -- XF-40 Details.. The numerical ID line instead of reading: 123456/12345678, would instead read: 12345692/12345678, 92 being the numerical code assigned to any type of cleaning attempted on a coin.. It's possible for this coin to come back without a Details grade.. I am, after all, looking at a photo.. There could be nothing there at all.. Or if there is any, it might be so minimal that item scarcity over-rides.. It's impossible to predict how bidders / buyers will react period, much less how they might react to any type of a damage on any given item.. Bidding might be slightly lower; may be more than slightly lower.. In cases of extremely rare pieces, price realized could be more than estimated.. Ya just never know.. ---------- See all PCGS Holdered / Un-holdered "No Grade" designations & examples here: https://www.pcgs.com/grades click on No Grade.. Swamp

Hey Doc -- You can adjust that value upwards a bit.. $1,400.00 is for a VF-20.. I think this example is gonna grade better than that even with the rub marks.. An AU-55 books at just under 4 large in my 13 year old Red Book, MS-60 = $9K, MS-63 = $27K.. That MS-62 pictured is the finest example known; it would most likely bring better than $27K if offered at auction.. Swamp

For a new kid in town you sure seem to know a lot about detectors, enough to be opinionated.. Anyhow... I'm sorry needing to say this, kind of again, but you continue to hold us to an un-necessary disadvantage.. How can we possibly give you better / best choices, or can you expect better information, when the extent of what we know about where you want to prospect is 'somewhere in the mother lode'.. Further, from what little you've shared location-wise and otherwise it continues sounding to me as though a detector isn't even the correct recovery tool / method for serious exploration and recovery of values.. If you have exclusive access to a land in the mother lode, theoretically meaning you cannot be 'claimed out from under', how about at least sharing with us which county or mining district the property is located -- and better yet the N-S-E-W area of same..? How many acres are you talking about..? Is it private property that just happens to be surrounded by old mines or is it someone else's claim..? If claim, patented or unpatented..? Has the parcel of land ever been worked (mined in any manner) in the past..? Are there any visible outcroppings on this land..? Mountainous terrain, hilly, rolling, flat..? Etc. You really need to give us useful information to work with if you truly expect useful information and recommendations in return.. Because as things stand right now it sounds to me as though a detector would be useful only for picking up surface residual from hard rock mining.. And I again have to ask what makes you think there's near-surface gold on this property when it's surrounded by mines..? What's different about this property from its neighbors..? It continues feeling to me what you're wanting to do is detect leftovers from hard rock mining rather than committing to working the property properly, either because of the hassle and expense of doing so or more likely because it's already been mined.. Please convince me otherwise.. Swamp EDIT: Please understand the above is meant to help you help yourself as well as for us to be able to help you the best ways possible; it is not meant as a slight or cut.. Having a permission to detect a gold producing property is great.. However, if that property and everything around it are hard rock producers and one wants to go in swinging a detector, welll, expectations and methodologies need adjusted..

I can't speak about the AT Pro and EMI, but I can speak about the AT Pro and salt.. As it's turned out I use my AT Pro exclusively as one of my beach detectors.. This was not my original intent, since I'd planned to use it as a rainy day off-beach detector much as Mike.. What it comes down to though is there really aren't all that many places to detect other than the beach along at least this part of inland coastal FL, or perhaps better put would be there aren't all that many off-beach locations ya want to detect -- due to the slither factor.. Even "domesticated" yards can have poison in 'em, much less mowed fields much less wild non-swampy areas.. The only reason I don't have any in mine is thanks to the black racer snake clan in this immediate area.. That, and for the few non-beach spots I detect I really like the way my Fisher F5 gets the job done.. It ain't broke so I ain't fixin' it lol.. Anyhowww.. I don't want to turn this into a review of the AT Pro so I'll just quickly say I like to run in PRO ZERO with the iron disc around 15 - 20 so as to not completely get rid of it and so I can hear all on mixed-metal hits.. Masking is almost never an issue here; I've yet to run into a nail over top of a piece of jewelry.. On the eight-position sens / depth scale I find I can keep it at five anywhere on the beach with no chatter whatsoever and only a tiny chirp if in the water and a wave hits the coil.. Six will give an end-of-swing small chirp most of the time and it's a bit more noisy in the water; no noticable depth gain.. Speaking of depth, it gets a measured 15" in wet sand on nickles, clad dimes / quarters.. Pre digging signal strength indicated to me it could have gotten deeper still.. It's also found tiny post ear rings in dry sand followed up by locating their even tinier pin backs -- small enough to hide behind grains of sand in my hand.. However, being completely honest with myself, when there's negative low tides and I'm able to "jump off the curb to scan the gutter" I believe the machine comes up just short for larger heavier gold.. With this being the machine's only beach fault as far as I've been able to tell, if conditions are such that I know I'm going to be working that edge I'll simply bring a deeper-seeking heavier gun.. If I'm not going to be able to work that line, no need to be lugging add'l weight when the AT Pro does an excellent job everywhere but.. Swamp Oh -- Hey Simon.. Took me a while to locate this pix, but I love these finds too.

Well said, Simon.. If I didn't already have an AT Pro and was offered one at the kind of price you're talking I'd want to pick it up too.. Swamp

Regardless if you're a walking Thesaurus or doing trials on an English to mo' bettah English translation application, you've made an error.. Yours says there was consultation with White's.. Original says there is an illusion of discussion with White's.. Not the same thing.. Potential for possible massive nuclear level destruction on a worldwide scale due to inaccurate translation = High Alert..! Back to the Slanglish drawing board with your inaccurate self..

You have a NOX 800; why would you want an AT Pro, other than to just have one..? Curious, is all.. I have an AT Pro.. Really like it a lot.. It's a main machine of mine for where I live.. However, I bought it less than a year before the Equinox series was announced.. If I could have a do-over the day NOX was released I know which machine I would buy to have only one of the two and it wouldn't be an AT Pro.. Not that there's anything wrong with 'em, it's simply because they pale in comparison.. Sooo, it really is a curiosity to me why you want an ATP other than to just have it..? What function can it perform for you the E8 cannot..? This is not a cut or cut-down of any kind, I'd just really like to know / know your thoughts / reasoning..? Swamp

Thanks for posting in this thread, Cabin.. I was trying to find an old thread where we were talking about cleaning coins cos I wanted to credit the person (you, as it turns out) who mentioned erasers -- but couldn't find that post.. I have a lot of artist supplies, mainly photograph / negative dyes and pencils accumulated during years in the now mostly obsolete industry.. I also have many different types of erasers but not a large pink one, since those are the ones found on the end of most pencils.. During the previous thread I found your eraser solution interesting so deceided to give it a try on IHPs I'd taken as far as I could this side of ultrasonic, caustics and/or oil.. This is when I discovered I didn't have a large pink eraser in my arsenal and also discovered they'd just break off the end of pencils due to amount of pressure needed (I could have made it work using vice grips or hemostats, but having others to test saved it for a last attempt if necessary..) Out of all the others, which included plastic, gum, vinyl, magic rub, kneedgummi, an unknown substance containing erasing fluid and a few others unidentified beyond 'eraser', the only one that worked, and worked quite well, is the PaperMate Union ink on one end pencil on the other end eraser (other name brands omitted intentionally..) It took a lot of elbow grease, but I eventually got the one I worked on 98% clean and I could have gotten the remainder if I worked some more on those recessed areas.. The price one pays is yeah, they become really shiny.. But I've been letting it sit out, putting it in with change etc. etc. and it's toning back down kinda quickly.. I only tried this on the one copper.. I'm fairly certain the ink side would be damaging to 'silver' coins and the pencil side will leave "rings around the stars" while making the rest of those coins too shiny.. But I still have a bunch of other erasers to try, if I want to give other than copper a go.. One other thing I noticed: As easily as new "copper" coins scratch even with new soft cloths, old copper coins stand up to just about whatever you throw at them eraserwise.. I couldn't notice anything that stood out above what was already there.. Point being, between these two types of erasers ( EDIT: and the hydrogen peroxide ) a person can most likely do a durn good job at cleaning up other-than-numismatic-value copper coins.. Swamp EDIT: This references your first reply only..

Please don't take any of the following the wrong way.. I'm merely replying to what you ask the best I know: It's hard enough trying to dispense non-destructive coin cleaning advice when all variables are known; impossible to do when none are known.. What does "pre-decimal" even mean..? You say NZ coins, but does that mean also found in NZ..? If so or otherwise, where found (meaning geographical location, not 'on the beach' or 'on land' -- I will assume land because you said 'washing off the dirt', but that doesn't tell me an actual where..)? What type of soil (meaning acidic / alkaline, not hot / mild..)? Of what are the coins made (percentage of each metal is helpful..)? Since NZ coins, are they double metal..? More than one denomination..? I could go on.. Almost never if not absolutely never do I consider much less describe substance or discoloration on the surface of any coin coming out of the ground as "patina.." Absolute best case one might get away with using 'toning'.. More than likely it's chemical / mineral coloration or damage.. I can't tell you how to present but pretty much fair trade value comes down to a question of rarity.. As far as anyone else appreciating your respect for the coin and its condition by leaving it alone goes the answer is neutral-at-best, but you'll definitely hear about even the most passive failed cleaning attempt -- soon to be followed with a much lower price offer, if indeed an offer at all.. When it comes to cleaning dug coins specifically, intent being numismatic sale, my advice is a distilled water soak, perhaps some gentle agitation to float away loosened dirts, clean cloth pat dry and that's it.. If you absolutely cannot leave a coin alone, my recommendation is sonic clean in distilled water, then pat dry.. However, do not be surprised if sonic cleaning removes some but not all of the debris / buildup / toning -- in which case you end up with a partially 'shiny' coin with a distinct line of demarcation between that and the non-removed substance(s).. What does one do then..? Does the coin look better or worse that way..? It is for the most part a combination of uncharted territory and a buyer's market when offering "found" / "dug" coinage in a numismatic environment, possible exception rarest-of-the-rare items.. Entrance, with coins of alteration, is at one's own risk.. Swamp

My thought; I agree.. Why..? You say you're surrounded by old gold mines.. What makes you think you have near-surface detectable Au when all your now-long-gone neighbors needed to go underground to get at theirs..? Just sayin'.. Swamp

So much for those locations bein' all worked out, I done guess.. ??? NIce shootin' -- the Monster is a monster..! ? Swamp

I hesitate to click the translate button; will wait for Paul's interpretation.. Swamp

Yup, that's the most recent iteration of the Zincoln.. Been minting the shield reverse since 2010.. Penny got switched to clad mid-1982, so there's both copper and clad cents that year.. Swamp

The voice behind the camera is "I Break For Bedrock" on YouTube.. He also writes as Adam H for ICMJ.. Swamp

Yeah, what this guy said.. Or x2, if you rather.. Swamp

Oh geez -- Now Steve's gonna need to re-do his this year's who found gold coinage list.. Very kewl find indeed, ^5 ! I agree w/BigSkyGuy -- info on where found please.. Swamp

There really isn't a simple, as in short and at the same time complete or satisfying, answer to your question.. I'll try to nutshell what I believe this is the best I can; you'll need to do some further searching for verification and fact checking.. I'm using the year 1876 as the starting point, along with the following decade for gearing up and mfg.. The three major factors in play at that time in relation to your find (which I'm not sure I'd call a dragon as much as a lizard -- it's kind of amorphous to my way of seeing it) are: 1) The American Centennial celebration in Philadelphia; 2) Industrial Revolution; 3) probable Chinese input / influence in the manufacturing sector.. The American Centennial and year are important because they are the where and when ascribed to an artistic period called The Aesthetic Movement.. The Industrial Revolution is important since it allowed mfg's to mass produce (in this case complex art works using industrial metals..) The Chinese population because of the spiritual and Feng Shui'ish influences evident in many items (lamps and paintings as well as castings,) most of which were given a Japanese spin for reasons unknown to me.. That's pretty much the bare bones nuts-and-bolts of the way I see it.. I admit I couldn't remember the name given that art period; I had to look it up.. (I knew that art history class I took forty-se ahmmmmm fifteen years ago would be useless..) Oh -- the reason I think that might be a lizard..? Check the casting of the tail end.. If it doesn't appear to have been broken off, remember lizards can lose their tails.. It's possible the casting will confirm ID if it appears complete.. I honestly can't say which it may be from the photos alone.. They're both positive energy creatures, lizard yin dragon yang.. Swamp EDIT: When I say dragon I reference wingless ala Chinese.. Those winged flying things in the flicks don't seem real positive energy as in for the betterment of mankind kind of way to me, knowotimean..