GB_Amateur Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 22 hours ago, mcjtom said: I'm curious if the new batch of ML detectors has simply doubled the ID scale resolution or has molded it in a different way, stretching things in some places and compressing them in others? For the Manticore vs. Eqx 600/800 the answer is "all of the above" (meaning both descriptions you mention). I don't know about the Eqx 900/700 or the X-Terra Pro, but... I think any simple (mathematical) relationship between any two of Minelab IB/VLF's released in the last 5 years other than the obvious 600 scale = 800 scale and 700 scale = 900 scale is quite unlikely. Trying to find a simple correlation between detectors from two different manufacturers -- good luck with that. One thing to keep in mind, which has been mentioned here more than once but seems to get lost in all the "wishful thinking" -- there are many factors which distort or skew VDI's, including but not restricted to: signal-to-noise (i.e. deeper targets result in worse signal while the noise remains constant), target orientation, target geometric assymetry (e.g. modern 'racetrack' pulltab gives a different VDI along the long axis than when swinging across the short axis), target corrosion (including selective alloy component leaching), target damge (e.g. broken modern pulltabs vs. unbroken ones), bent targets (e.g. flat beavertail-only vs folded over beavertail only), variations in ground mineralization, effect of nearby trash targets. I even think I've noticed ground moisture affecting VDI (i.e. same ground but with different water content, so measured at different times of the eyar) although I'm far from sure on this. Changing modes (e.g. Park 1 vs. Park 2 on the Eqx 600/800) can result in different VDI scaling although the one I use here as an example is quite small, but measurable under ideal bench testing. I don't know about correlations between other modes (e.g. Park1 vs. Beach2 vs. Gold1 on the Eqx 600/800 as I've never studied that). Another monkey-wrench in the gears occurs when the target passes under different parts of the coil. For best results, getting the sweetspot of the coil (center of most coils) over the target will give the most consistent VDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 hours ago, TexHunter said: Here's a link to a book I co-authored 26 years ago that might shed some light on the gold ring target ID's. It's not a great book by today's standards, but it was all that was available at the time. Pay special attention to the final results tables as they might be helpful... http://www.70falcon.com/Books/RingBook2015.pdf You might right click and open in a new tab. There will be a message saying it might be a potential security risk, but I can tell you it's not. It's safe to open it. The .pdf was created back in 2015 so that might be why the message comes up. I just opened it with no problem... This little book is one of the most well written detecting guides that I have read. Still very pertinent today. I am going to print it out & put a copy in my reference library. Thanks for linking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjtom Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 13 hours ago, GB_Amateur said: other than the obvious 600 scale = 800 scale and 700 scale = 900 scale is quite unlikely. Trying to find a simple correlation between detectors from two different manufacturers -- good luck with that. Not that it's really important, but would the Vanquish ID scale be much different from Nox 800/600? Simon may know as he's been using both frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexHunter Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 19 hours ago, mcjtom said: Not that it's really important, but would the Vanquish ID scale be much different from Nox 800/600? Simon may know as he's been using both frequently. Just the 540, not the 340, or 440 as they have a different segmented scale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjtom Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 7 hours ago, TexHunter said: not the 340, or 440 as they have a different segmented scale... The may have different notching division, but the numerical ID scale is still the same: from -9 to 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexHunter Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 hours ago, mcjtom said: The may have different notching division, but the numerical ID scale is still the same: from -9 to 40. That's right, their segments are larger with more numbers per segment while the 540 is identical to the 600/800 at 2 numbers per segment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMITH Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/18/2023 at 12:10 PM, TexHunter said: Here's a link to a book I co-authored 26 years ago that might shed some light on the gold ring target ID's. It's not a great book by today's standards, but it was all that was available at the time. Pay special attention to the final results tables as they might be helpful... http://www.70falcon.com/Books/RingBook2015.pdf You might right click and open in a new tab. There will be a message saying it might be a potential security risk, but I can tell you it's not. It's safe to open it. The .pdf was created back in 2015 so that might be why the message comes up. I just opened it with no problem... Nice wright up, and I will agree with others still vary pertinent to day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjtom Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 hours ago, TexHunter said: That's right, their segments are larger with more numbers per segment while the 540 is identical to the 600/800 at 2 numbers per segment... OK, but disregarding the notch segments width differences and just looking at the ID values on any Vanquish model and 600/800, how well those scales correspond to one another? e.g. would a target that rings say 13 on the Vanquish be expected to also ring 13 on 600/800, everything else being equal etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexHunter Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 hours ago, mcjtom said: OK, but disregarding the notch segments width differences and just looking at the ID values on any Vanquish model and 600/800, how well those scales correspond to one another? e.g. would a target that rings say 13 on the Vanquish be expected to also ring 13 on 600/800, everything else being equal etc ? Yes, I believe that is correct. I don't have the 340, or 440, to verify, but I don't know why they would be different... Here's a table of some common U.S. targets that should come up the same on all 3 of the Vanquish models, and the 600/800... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 My first significant find at a trashed out park. Signals everywhere but most beeped from 26 to 36 indicating pulltab. This interesting piece ranged from 17 to 19 for the middle then 33 to 35 for the chain part. It's stamped with an unfamiliar numbers so I figured it was junk. Still a better find than what I normally find! (Clad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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