Minelab, What The Heck Did You Do To My Equinox?????

[phrunt]

This should be a humbling watch for Minelab now.

 

[HardPack]

On 4/27/2023 at 8:25 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

For those of you who may not think or believe that Minelab cares about their customers or that they pay attention to these forums, I had a very nice, lengthy phone call from one of the Equinox 700/900 design engineers tonight (4/28) in order to talk about the experiences I was having with the Equinox 900 that I own.

The Minelab Equinox 900 was released in December of 2022. Minelab Design Engineers have been aware the Equinox 900 design failures on a date no later than April 28, 2023.

In December of 2023 in countless attempts to overcome the original design failures current owners of the Equinox 900 are still playing with settings in the field.

Minelab design engineers are more concerned about job security, this is coming down from corporate. As illustrated by the re-release of Xterra 705 as the Xterra Pro in February 2023. Another stepping stone on the path to failure. 

Maybe we should be thinking class action.
 

[Zaj56]

As I bought a Nox  900 thinking  I was upgrading from my Nox 600, I have certainly had mixed feelings. There are things that I like better on the  900 but the erratic nature of the machine is very troubling . I have been patiently waiting for a firmware update that never comes and if it does, do you think it's possible that improvements can be made or should I consider moving on from the 900/700 experiment?

[Jeff McClendon]

14 hours ago, Zaj56 said:

As I bought a Nox  900 thinking  I was upgrading from my Nox 600, I have certainly had mixed feelings. There are things that I like better on the  900 but the erratic nature of the machine is very troubling . I have been patiently waiting for a firmware update that never comes and if it does, do you think it's possible that improvements can be made or should I consider moving on from the 900/700 experiment?

I have no clue. 

Minelab does read this forum and most of the posters and posts about the 700/900 on here are thoughtful, respectful and are by serious detector users who love detecting with the Multi IQ detectors. 

But for me anyway, the 700/900 came out of nowhere, with no warning. Minelab barely even hyped it. They had been quietly working on a redesign of the exterior components that were failing while replacing control pods and broken 11” coils. They never said anything about this situation even on a super Minelab friendly forum like this one. 

Maybe a software update is coming soon or maybe a redesign of the target ID system is already being planned for the next Equinox model. 

The 800 would certainly be an upgrade for your 600. So would a Nokta Legend or Deus 2. 

[Bill (S. CA)]

9 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Like many have said, why didn’t Minelab slightly expand the target ID range of the Equinox 600/800 to give the low to mid conductor range a few more IDs to prevent so many common targets from piling up on target IDs 11, 12, 13 and 14 (at least that’s what happens in the USA). Fixing the shaft quality, redesigning the hand grip and control box and improving the lower shaft to 11” coil connection were fantastic. 

How could Minelab be so far off the mark with what I was told (by a Minelab Equinox design engineer) was a conscious decision to take the Equinox in a “new” direction. What a screw up direction is all I can say as far as the original Equinox’s vaunted target ID stability and versatility.

The only big improvement for me has been my recovering a ton of US nickels and a few gold rings that I had walked over using the 800 because I just missed them due to target ID 11, 12, 13, 14 fatigue burnout at some really aluminum trash filled park sites.

Jeff, I think the answer is the same as always.  Shill testers.  Yes men who want free stuff.  Years ago when I worked with Minelab they would hand me units and tell me that their testers had all signed off on them.  In several cases the prototypes were disasters.  I honestly don't know who they use anymore but back then almost all of their testers were in Europe.  In the U.S. there we only two of us.  

I'm afraid now that Minelab (and Nokta for that matter) are locked into using YouTube idiots to test their products.  They are the new version of shill testers.  The last straight up tester I am aware of was Steve Herschbach on the Axiom.  

If Minelab had any brains they would sign you to an NDA and get you involved. Pfrunt, too.  That is, if you guys wanted to be.  Testing is a lot of work and I don't know if I would do it nowadays.  I spent hours on the phone with engineers in Australia, downloaded dozens of fixes, spent days in the field and wrote up reports after work at night.  All for no pay.   A the end I was allowed to keep one prototype.  The reason I did it was to get a good machine to use (I bought one) and also to do our hobby right so to speak.  

To sum up, I'm bummed like you that the target ID scale isn't better.  That's why I won't buy a 900.  I love my 800 but I really don't use it much in the parks because of the 11 -14 range issue you mention.  I tried to use my Apex instead but it's a tough go in the trash. Actually, right now the Legend is my favorite park detector.   Its TID range is excellent and the numbers are stable.  The bummer is that my Legend is going in for service (won't charge fully) so I am out of options.  I wish I could afford a Deus II but I just can't justify that kind of money.  Gee, maybe I should charge up my old Etrac...if I can lift it!

[Jeff McClendon]

2 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

Actually, right now the Legend is my favorite park detector.   Its TID range is excellent and the numbers are stable. 

That has been my experience too with the Legend. It has good depth, good sensitivity to small, partially masked targets, good separation and just about the right amount of target IDs especially in that low to mid conductor area where so many US trash targets can crowd out nickels and gold jewelry. Why Minelab thought the X-Terra Pro, Equinox 700/900 and Manticore needed 50 target IDs between just below US nickels (25) to just below US copper pennies and clad dimes (75) is beyond me. That same target area range on the Legend is about 20 target IDs and its 24 on Deus 2.

[King-Of-Bling]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:36 AM, Bill (S. CA) said:

Jeff, I think the answer is the same as always.  Shill testers.  Yes men who want free stuff.  Years ago when I worked with Minelab they would hand me units and tell me that their testers had all signed off on them.  In several cases the prototypes were disasters.  I honestly don't know who they use anymore but back then almost all of their testers were in Europe.  In the U.S. there we only two of us.  

I'm afraid now that Minelab (and Nokta for that matter) are locked into using YouTube idiots to test their products.  They are the new version of shill testers.  The last straight up tester I am aware of was Steve Herschbach on the Axiom.  

If Minelab had any brains they would sign you to an NDA and get you involved. Pfrunt, too.  That is, if you guys wanted to be.  Testing is a lot of work and I don't know if I would do it nowadays.  I spent hours on the phone with engineers in Australia, downloaded dozens of fixes, spent days in the field and wrote up reports after work at night.  All for no pay.   A the end I was allowed to keep one prototype.  The reason I did it was to get a good machine to use (I bought one) and also to do our hobby right so to speak.  

To sum up, I'm bummed like you that the target ID scale isn't better.  That's why I won't buy a 900.  I love my 800 but I really don't use it much in the parks because of the 11 -14 range issue you mention.  I tried to use my Apex instead but it's a tough go in the trash. Actually, right now the Legend is my favorite park detector.   Its TID range is excellent and the numbers are stable.  The bummer is that my Legend is going in for service (won't charge fully) so I am out of options.  I wish I could afford a Deus II but I just can't justify that kind of money.  Gee, maybe I should charge up my old Etrac...if I can lift it!

In regards to the European vs you 2 (known) US testers and them giving the greenlight on prototypes and you seeing major problems : Do you think some of their results vs yours could be the result of locations at all ? Specifically , soil and sand , mineralization , them being across the pond ? Or maybe it didn't matter and they were more biased , idk. 

[Lynk]

Jeff's original post was April 25 and very thoughtfully highlighted the 900's issues with numerous examples driven by many hours of experience.  As mentioned, we know Minelab reads the forum.

So we are a year past the release, about eight months past Jeff's post, and past the Manticore update.  So what's going on, Minelab? Even a verbal acknowledgement you understand our concerns and are doing your best to address them would be constructive.  I very well understand business decisions are made from the point of being economically rational, but damaging your brand value has real economic consequences.  It leaves people assuming you can't or you won't. Both are losing propositions.  So again, what's going on Minelab? A company's reputation has to be built every day on the foundation built yesterday.  It's a new day Minelab. Start building. 

[phrunt]

I have my hopes they'll try improve Target ID stability some more with an update, aside from that I have absolutely no issues with the Manticore, in fact I think it's great, that's all that's holding it back for me which unfortunately for my needs is a pretty big step backwards from the Nox 800. 

If they can improve it a bit more, I'll be happy, ideally if they have an option for less ID's with a Nox ID mode, and something like a 60 positive ID mode expanding the range to be more like the Legend which US people seem to prefer it's ID range, and a 99 positive ID mode that would be a killer feature and would make everyone happy.  They should be able to do that with the Manticore's screen allowing that sort of change, so it's just a software modification.  Then it would be worthy of its beast nickname.

The Equinox came out and it was the first attempt and it was fantastic, very few issues at all until the hardware quality issues showed their face down the track a bit, the performance was outstanding.  I hoped the Manticore would be the same and all I hoped it would be especially when their marketing said the Target ID's are better than the Nox, that's a bit of a stretch of the truth ever I heard one, I had my hopes too high unfortunately.

If they fix the ID's I'll be overjoyed, in the meantime just keep that sensitivity low and put up with a bit worse ID's, the other benefits of the detector are great.

[Bill (S. CA)]

18 hours ago, King-Of-Bling said:

In regards to the European vs you 2 (known) US testers and them giving the greenlight on prototypes and you seeing major problems : Do you think some of their results vs yours could be the result of locations at all ? Specifically , soil and sand , mineralization , them being across the pond ? Or maybe it didn't matter and they were more biased , idk. 

Not back in the day. Shills have always been around, clowns who want free stuff for being yes men.  In my case, the detectors i was testing were so bad that it didn't matter where you hunted.  They just didn't work until actual testing was conducted.