Minelab, What The Heck Did You Do To My Equinox?????

[Jeff McClendon]

19 minutes ago, phrunt said:

So are you thinking there is inconsistency in builds causing some to ID better than others?  That's a can of worms Minelab won't want.   You would assume if that was the case it would come down to coils more than detectors.  Your numbers are pretty close though between the two to the point a different days EMI could be at play perhaps?

I've decided I'll stick to using my CTX, Nox 800 and Vanquish for stable target ID's and the Manticore can be used when I'm not needing some good ID's, if they fix it with a firmware update fantastic but I'm not going to stew on it like I did the GPX 6000 EMI issue, that drove me nuts until they finally fixed it, for the Manticore I'll use it where it has strengths and use something else when its weaknesses are at play.  Who knows, once I buy the smaller and larger coil for it the ID's may improve if it is a coil related issue.

EMI in Park 1 default in my test bed is not bad enough to cause a 4" clad dime to read between 80 and 98 on multiple occasions with my first Nox 900 and for the replacement to read 80 to 96 today. The other detectors tested on that same dime, even Deus 2 with a 75 non-ferrous target ID range up averaged it a little but not as much as either Nox 900 or with nearly as much target ID spread.  US clad dimes weigh around 2.27 grams so they are not a tiny target. Yes my dirt in my test garden measures 8 of 10 mineralization bars on my Deus 2.

[GB_Amateur]

I'd like to comment but first I have a question:  when you say "surface ID", how far above the coin is the coil when you determine this?

 

[Jeff McClendon]

37 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I'd like to comment but first I have a question:  when you say "surface ID", how far above the coin is the coil when you determine this?

 

1 to 2 inches

[abenson]

So the triple beeping is both edges and the center of the coil hitting the coin at shallow depths. Probably due to the nature of both the Manticore and 900 being high gain detectors. I'm guessing the wide variance in the ID on the 4" deep dime is your high mineral dirt. My dirt fills the Deus 2 meter about 70% and I get the up averaging on both the Manticore and 900 on my 6" deep clad dime. But I also saw the same thing on my 800 with a 6" dime. If there is a problem with the 900, it's not real apparent in my soil. In any case hope Minelab gets it sorted out for you Jeff.

[Jeff McClendon]

10 minutes ago, abenson said:

So the triple beeping is both edges and the center of the coil hitting the coin at shallow depths. Probably due to the nature of both the Manticore and 900 being high gain detectors. I'm guessing the wide variance in the ID on the 4" deep dime is your high mineral dirt. My dirt fills the Deus 2 meter about 70% and I get the up averaging on both the Manticore and 900 on my 6" deep clad dime. But I also saw the same thing on my 800 with a 6" dime. If there is a problem with the 900, it's not real apparent in my soil. In any case hope Minelab gets it sorted out for you Jeff.

Yep, I expect triple beeping on shallow coins and other regularly shaped targets if they are on the surface or a couple of inches deep. 4 inches deep is a bit much.

I got to do a short hunt in the rain today with the new one. The one they sent me is triple beeping on 3 inch deep coins and the IDs are a little tighter on 4” or less clad dimes and copper pennies. 

I think Minelab are doing a great job of trying to help me. No complaints whatsoever.

The 900 is a great detector for sure. It just may need a bit of software tweaking to get it a little more stable.

[GB_Amateur]

13 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

1 to 2 inches

I ask because I was trying to help narrow down the possible cause of the VDI spread and up-averaging problems.  Since your test garden coins were 4" (dime) and 6" (nickel and quarter), if the air-test VDI values are stable at those distances then that minimizes the chance it's a coil-to-target distance related problem.

FWIW I just added another coin to my test garden -- 8.5" deep clad quarter to go along with 5" deep 95% copper cent and 6" deep 25% Ni 'nickel' 5-center.  It's nice enough today for me to do some testing with the Manticore.

I think it's worth pointing out, including reminding myself, that the 900 and M'core are not the same detector, so trying to tie the performance of one (which I've seen a few do here) with the other is walking on shaky ground.  But still each one by itself is certainly worth figuring out and reporting on.

[Jeff McClendon]

20 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I ask because I was trying to help narrow down the possible cause of the VDI spread and up-averaging problems.  Since your test garden coins were 4" (dime) and 6" (nickel and quarter), if the air-test VDI values are stable at those distances then that minimizes the chance it's a coil-to-target distance related problem.

FWIW I just added another coin to my test garden -- 8.5" deep clad quarter to go along with 5" deep 95% copper cent and 6" deep 25% Ni 'nickel' 5-center.  It's nice enough today for me to do some testing.  I'll see what I can come up with.

At this point I am just going to use the Equinox 900 for gold prospecting, for less trashed areas and for those times when I really need depth. I am also just going to go with a low, mid or high conductor dig decision without concerning myself too much with more exact Equinox 800 type target IDs especially on smaller, deeper high conductor coins.

For me, speculating about what is causing this wider target ID spread on smaller US coins and multiple coil responses on coins and regularly shaped targets even at 4" depth is out of my league. 

[Bill (S. CA)]

16 hours ago, phrunt said:

So are you thinking there is inconsistency in builds causing some to ID better than others?  That's a can of worms Minelab won't want.   You would assume if that was the case it would come down to coils more than detectors.  Your numbers are pretty close though between the two to the point a different days EMI could be at play perhaps?

I've decided I'll stick to using my CTX, Nox 800 and Vanquish for stable target ID's and the Manticore can be used when I'm not needing some good ID's, if they fix it with a firmware update fantastic but I'm not going to stew on it like I did the GPX 6000 EMI issue, that drove me nuts until they finally fixed it, for the Manticore I'll use it where it has strengths and use something else when its weaknesses are at play.  Who knows, once I buy the smaller and larger coil for it the ID's may improve if it is a coil related issue.

The comments about build inconsistency remind me of a similar issue with the Etrac that occurred years ago.  Some of you may recall there was a supposed difference in Etracs made in Ireland and later models made in Malaysia.  I personally had one of each and did not notice a difference.  However, I do remember some guys going nuts on insisting they would only own the Irish version and not the Malaysian one.  Again, and it has been a long time ago, the issue just sort of faded away.

As phrunt said, if a similar situation exists with Mjnelab's current detectors then I should think that they would not want to open that can of worms.  I can only imagine the various YouTubers going ballistic with their amateur detective work trying to source detectors if that did occur.

[Steve Herschbach]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:58 PM, abenson said:

So the triple beeping is both edges and the center of the coil hitting the coin at shallow depths. Probably due to the nature of both the Manticore and 900 being high gain detectors. I'm guessing the wide variance in the ID on the 4" deep dime is your high mineral dirt. My dirt fills the Deus 2 meter about 70% and I get the up averaging on both the Manticore and 900 on my 6" deep clad dime. But I also saw the same thing on my 800 with a 6" dime. If there is a problem with the 900, it's not real apparent in my soil. In any case hope Minelab gets it sorted out for you Jeff.

My 800 and other detectors I have owned do the same. Nothing more than targets in close proximity to coil windings and normal high gain detector/DD coil behavior. It's a shallow target indicator.

[midalake]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:51 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

For me, speculating about what is causing this wider target ID spread on smaller US coins and multiple coil responses on coins and regularly shaped targets even at 4" depth is out of my league. 

Thinking>>> Maybe in this digital age the MFG's should give us downloadable scale options?  Pick 50 or 100 scale!

Can not be that hard to program? 

The Deus 2 100 scale does not impress me.