Pulse Induction & VLF In One Detector. Don't Piss On My Dream.

[RONS DETECTORS MINELAB]

Now I only hope we are not messing with Gerry’s dream.😩
 

I remember Star Trek had a flip phone before anyone even imagined a cell phone, now look were we are at. 😃

[phrunt]

37 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said:

the processor itself needs 7-8 minutes to process 1 photo..!!!
But the computer processor in cooperation with the graphics card can do it in 1 minute....

This is why Nvidia is suddenly one of the big guns! Went from making video cards to help us play some games to making video processing for AI purposes.

[EL NINO77]

 

Yes, artificial intelligence can do a lot... but it depends on the area of use...
if you zoom in on this picture, you will see how a modern denoising program can edit a noisy photo.. the results are excellent..
it's also because the AI knows exactly what to do...

In detection, it is no longer so clear,,, and there are too many factors that affect detection

[tboykin]

9 hours ago, Geotech said:

At White's I designed an MXT+SMPI circuit, got the TX, coil, and preamp working but then abandoned the project for the far more promising truncated half sine. With MXT+SMPI you get one or the other but not both at the same time. With half sine you get both at the same time, and the option to do multifrequency/multipulse. I got the half sine project running and that's when I left White's. No one ever continued the project.

We tried to continue it for about a year after I took over engineering, but the documentation was a couple of notebooks, shoeboxes of parts, and not much else. We dug through boxes and boxes of what I assume was your stuff trying to figure everything out. 
 

The employee turnover at White’s was really bad, and the inmates were running the prison for too many years. It could have been a great product with the right combination of resources, guidance, and time. It was the one project I was really excited about, but the poor project management, lack of documentation, and overall disarray of engineering (and management) made it challenging to even figure out which PCB’s were supposed to talk to each other.

Good lesson for future engineers and project managers- document everything so that the next guy can continue the work.

[Geotech]

9 hours ago, jasong said:

The GPZ is kinda a PI/VLF hybrid on steroids in some ways already, though I guess neither truly. 

I'm unsure why discrim can't be implemented on ZVT...

ZVT is PI, not VLF. It has a high slew followed by a dead time, another high slew, another dead time, etc. You only get a reactive signal during the high slew and a reactive signal is required for discrimination. But all the sampling is done during the dead time.

8 hours ago, phrunt said:

So, you're saying Garrett has it sitting in their storage room in among the boxes marked "whites old stuff" and they could continue on with the project? It is something someone else could take over or is it something that would be near impossible without your involvement? 

Would the code you have written be able to run on today's hardware or would it need redone due to obsolete components? 

I don't understand why if this was in existence the project would not be resumed, as it does sound like a very beneficial product that would sell very well.  

...

So, what makes the half sine design so special over the current market offerings? What are the benefits of it over the detectors we currently have? I know very little to nothing about it, well before my time when this was taking place, a real shame it didn't hit the market though.

Yes, Garrett could resurrect it. I've heard through the rumor mill that Garrett looked at it but either didn't know what to do with it or wasn't interested. As @tboykin mentioned above, White's also didn't know what to do with it. I wrote a patent for it and the patent gives all the info needed to understand it, and I left a fully working prototype and all the firmware (in C, portable to any micro). The turnover was high at White's and with new engineers this would have been an advanced project. I have no idea what the engineering landscape looks like at Garrett, but I'm sure they could figure it out.

Half sine is a true hybrid technology. You get a full VLF response at the same time you get a PI response. You can also run it multifrequency and multi-pulse at the same time. I think my prototype was single frequency but I also built a 3-frequency transmitter, just never hooked it up to a receiver.

8 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

As for the hybrid detector, the Aka Smart pulse detector has been on the market for a while, which is a hybrid PI-VLF detector...

After my earlier post, I was off to the dentist for a root canal. While sitting in the chair I thought, waitasec, didn't someone market one of these? Thanks for the reminder.

8 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

AI does not change the fact that for every good target there are countless trash targets that look exactly the same to the metal detector.

Not only that, but on the bench you can swing targets and get nice looking responses. But then you put the coil to the ground, and it's just a mess. I've seen engineers who thought they had designed a great detector, and when they get it in the field they just start crying. All that said, I think AI will slowly work its way into detectors, but don't expect a whole lot from it. And metal detectors tend to be late adopters of technology, so don't expect it soon.

This topic of VLF+PI has come up before, and every time it does I get all worked up and wanting to jump back into those old designs. But then I remember I haven't finished writing that damned book, so I exercise some self-restraint and go back to writing. The book is almost done, and I will move these projects to the top of my to-do list. Should be fun.

[dig4gold]

On 5/2/2024 at 3:52 AM, Gerry in Idaho said:

Does anyone ever think we could see a Pulse Induction Detector with a Setting that could turn it into a VLF?

Not from MInelab you won't. They would rather sell you two separate detectors. $$$

D4G

[Gerry in Idaho]

2 minutes ago, dig4gold said:

Not from MInelab you won't. They would rather sell you two separate detectors. $$$

D4G

I don't buy that at all.

They provided us an Equinox 800, EQ-900 & Manticore.  All 3 detectors are known for Top selling & performing Coin/Relic detectors.  But most water/beach hunters use them over the Xcal-II 1000.  And when it comes to Gold Prospecting, the 3 detectors can outperform the Gold Only GM-1000.  So they have listened and provided us with true Multi Use VLF detectors.  Now, would be a great time to offer us a PI/VLF.

They Minelab, have done us many options and I appreciate such.  And as a greedy detectorists, I want more.  Don't we all?

[dig4gold]

Hang on Gerry. Your question was about COMBINING VLF & PI into one detector. My comment was that Not from Minelab you won't because they would rather sell you two separate individual detectors to make more money out of you.

To the best of my knowledge a Nox 800/900 & Manticore are VLF. Nothing to do with PI. So nothing to do with combining VLF & PI. Could ML do it? Possibly very likely. If they could, why haven't they already?

Maybe now that you have thrown it out there it may stir things up. Maybe someone else will beat them to it.

D4G  

[geof_junk]

1 hour ago, dig4gold said:

Could ML do it? Possibly very likely. If they could, why haven't they already?

Maybe now that you have thrown it out there it may stir things up. Maybe someone else will beat them to it.

When they do expect twice the price of other competitors 🥱

[phrunt]

They hurt their own Gold Monster and any future VLF gold machine by creating the Equinox 800 and Manticore with Gold Modes, so they are capable of unselfishly damaging sales of other detectors for the customers benefit. 

Someone wanting a general-purpose machine yet still wants to look for gold doesn't need to buy multiple detectors to do so, they can buy the Nox or Manticore and have detectors as good or as I and many others would argue better than the GM1000, and even waterproof for the creek gold hunters.  Even if all I ever looked for was gold, I'd prefer the Nox/Manticore over the GM for numerous reasons.

It's been a long while now and no Gold Monster replacement, I'm wondering if there ever will be as there is far less of a need for one now the multi freakers exist and much harder for them to make something worth buying to someone with a multi already.  They may have accidently killed off dedicated gold VLF's. 

I've been thinking their next gold machine release maybe a VLF, not a new GPZ, but the more I think about it the more I doubt it would be.  I think it will be a lower cost PI to compete with the likes of the Algoforce, pending Nokta PI and at a stretch with its higher price the Axiom Lite....  They just can't leave that part of the market unoccupied by their detectors allowing competitors to build up market share of customers in that price range.  Maybe its' why 5000 stock has suddenly arrived in the US again.

The Aussies never seem too fond of VLF's, I doubt a VLF/PI combo would excite them that much with their bad ground.