X Coils In Gb, Scrounging For Missed Nugs

[jasong]

I put in some serious days of detecting old patches in Gold Basin in order to get a solid idea of what I personally missed with the Z14 and give my coils more of a workout. Most of the spots I hit were patches I personally found and I doubt anyone else has ever detected, that way I can gauge what exactly I was passing by and get a good feel for the differences between the coils I have with me.

However, the first patch I hit was on in Lost Basin proper and not one of my own. I had once met an old timer detecting here as I was exploring back in 2014 and he explained he had found this patch in 2002 and it had produced up to a 1.5 oz'er and about 3-4 ounces in total, mostly deep. It's about 50'x50', seen 3 GPZ's I am aware of, 25" coils, and about 2 decades of detecting.

I put on the 17x12, which I was given free by the manufacturer, and began a mental gridding. 12 t-hold, low smoothing, 19 gain, HY, Normal. About halfway through I got a very subtle signal, but it was repeatable. I kicked off low smoothing just to hear the difference and the signal was definitely bigger...maybe wider is a better term. Kicking into Difficult the signal disappeared. Back to my normal settings, I boot scraped an inch and saw the top of a large rock which I assumed was the signal, but after pulling it aside with my pick the signal got stronger. I ended up with a solid ~0.3 grammer at about 10 inches. I'm certain this target didn't make a peep on the Z14.

You can see the big boss man overseeing the operation here to the upper left, and also the old dead twigs which the old timer had at one time raked aside, which was what drew my attention to the area to investigate at first. Grand Wash cliffs in the background, the Grand Canyon is directly behind them. Visible is the foreground is the filled in hole, you can see this is pretty typical Lost Basin reddish dirt. I would classify it as mild to low-medium "heat". Some run Difficult here, but I see no need for it. 

Here is a video of the lack of sensitivity at the tips of the 17x12. It's really noticable when trying to pinpoint and oddly it makes a big ole 17" round easier to pinpoint with for me than an elliptical. I feel as if the 17x12 is like detecting with a 14x8 except with a lot of extra plastic around the edges and with the depth in the center of the coil of a 17" elliptical. It's odd. I'm not sure it's my choice for rocky washes anymore because that sensitive area towards the center is hard to get over everything.

 

Next I moved to a wash in Gold Basin which had produced a lot of sub-1 gram stuff for me in the past and I put on the 10" to do some crumbing. I slowed down and really made an effort to listen for tiny blips but after running through about 40 feet of wash bottom without a piece of gold I decided to grab my Gold Bug 2 and run back over the same ground because I swore I should have had some dinks by then. A lot of caliche is exposed here, and for those who don't know what caliche is, it's basically a limestone conglomerate type rock that acts as bedrock in the desert here. It can be soft or hard as concrete.

Almost immedietely I had a strong signal on the side of the wash, which I assumed must be a small bit of tin. I grabbed the GPZ/10" and despite my best efforts I couldn't get any type of real signal to repeat for me. Going back to the GB2 I recovered the target and it ended up being a 0.03 gram tiny nugget, which upon looking with a loupe was quite porous and had tiny microscopic bits of quartz within it, a very common occurence for nuggets here as much of the gold forms within breccia in shears and shattered fault gouge here so it often encapsulates almost microscopic bits of quartz.

Due to these non-sluggy sort of targets, the VLF seems to hit much harder on them than the GPZ/10", which probably explains why I can't seem to get the sensitivity on my tiny nuggets as others seem to be reporting, even in other parts of AZ. A 0.1 gram nugget of gold from here might only have 0.05 grams of gold in it, and discontinuous geometry, which is hard on non-VLF machines.

I moved on another 5 feet and hit another pretty definite target on the GB2, this time it was a paper-thin flake, I think it was about 0.05 grams. Just holding it in my fingers lightly was enough to bend it.  It's at the tip of my pointer finger. It would make a sound on the 10" if I waved it in my scoop right over the coil, but it couldn't hit it at about 1", just too thin even for the GPZ, and that's why I missed it I think. I put my GPZ back in the truck and decided to just run through the last 30 feet or so I had covered with the 10" just out of curiosity.

I almost immedietely hit another signal, faint but repeatable. At about 6" I pulled out a 0.2 grammer right on caliche. Not sure how I missed this one, might have gone too fast with the 10". It ended up having a lot of quartz too, and some hematite.

And then another 5 feet again, about 5" and sitting on caliche, a 0.2 grammer that I really should have heard before but somehow didn't. This one I got in-situ before brushing it away as it was wedged in between two cemented pebbles. 

And then finally a 0.15 grammer that really wasn't even very deep. Not sure why I missed this one but it was right in the center of the small wash and there is no chance my coil didn't scrub it.

This post got kinda long, so I will take a queue from JW and do a multi-part post. My conclusion (unsurprisingly since we already knew this) is that the target geometry/composition makes a big difference in how successful a person is with the 10" and why I was having trouble understanding why people don't simply just go in with their VLF's instead of the 10X since it's so much quicker and lighter. I know I traded notes with Andy when we first got our 10"' X Coils and he was getting a lot better depth on tiny bits than I was, and I'm sure it's because the gold in the areas he detects is more solid and my gold has a ton more quartz inclusions and porosity. I have some 0.1gram bits that won't make a peep on the 10X even running them directly over the coil in my scoop, and that's due to the target characteristics.

Overall, I'm reminded why I rarely spend much time doing this kind of detecting unless I really need to get a couple pieces for morale. I don't live close enough to gold fields where I can spend my time chasing small stuff like this. That's just me and my personal situation, but I feel it's necessary to state since the majority of posters here live much closer to detecting ground and might not understand why I detect the ways I do. It's 1000 miles drive each way for me to go detecting and I'm not retired so I have to make it pay or at least break even. Next post I'll show you what I normally aim for in my personal detecting and why I do it that way even though it breaks some of the "golden rules" of gold detecting. I believe it will be important to make these distinctions for those new people reading these sorts of posts 5, 10, 15 years down the road and wondering why we did what we did. I feel it's important to not copy what others do online, but to develop a strategy and skillset that matches your local conditions and personal situations. My style probably might not even be optimum 150 miles away in the Bradshaws, let alone across the country or world. 

 

[Chet]

Jason

 Great information.

Thank you,
Chet
 

[Jonathan Porter]

The quality of posts on this forum has skyrocketed lately, great read Jasong.😎 I agree about the elliptical, its best for more open areas where coverage is paramount compared to tighter spots.

JP 

[Condor]

I tend to agree with Jason on the 17x12 X-Coil, I've come to some similar conclusions about the tip sensitivity.  As I mentioned awhile back, I felt I was losing targets with a side to side sweep and had better success pushing the front section between the windings at suspected target signals.  The hottest section seemed to be a full 2 inches off the edge directly between the windings.  If that's the case and you're losing 2 inches off the front and 2 inches off the back, you're not pushing at 17" long coil.  

I've found some tiny gold with the 17" round, but it tends to be much more dense and lack the porosity that Jason is experiencing with his Gold Bug.  I'm headed to the desert for some social distancing and detecting tomorrow so I'll give that 17" round a good workout.  Hopefully, I can get over some deep targets and make a few recordings for the shut-ins.

Tally Ho

[jasong]

Yep, geometry/composition definitely makes all the difference when it comes to the small ones. I tested an invisible dink on the 10" with 24 threshold and smoothing off just to make sure the settings weren't it, and it was still totally inaudible even touching the coil.  Yet I can hear a solid piece almost half it's weight 1" away like it's a great signal. It happens with bigger nuggets too, but just not nearly as pronounced. For this porous, quartz laden type gold I found the GB2 generally gets better depth on stuff up to 0.15 to 0.20 grams or so from my rudimentary rebury testing (highly variable depending on geometry and how much quartz/hematite is in it), which is roughly what I was seeing in the field too. As JW and others have shown, the 10" can outperform a VLF on the more solid type of small gold though. 

17 hours ago, Condor said:

 I'm headed to the desert for some social distancing and detecting tomorrow so I'll give that 17" round a good workout. 

Hope you snag some nice ones. I'm looking forward to your post, the best of my success in AZ has come with that coil and I'm curious to see the results from others here in AZ too.

[jasong]

Time to strap on the 17". I was given this coil free by the manufacturer. I think I've made it pretty clear at this point that my opinions are my own and I'm not afraid to say exactly what I think though, even if it's not something people want to hear. But first, here's a great view of an arm of Lake Mead from the top of the Lost Basin range, my land is about 10 miles to the left. I love this area, it's stark and rough and beautiful. A few spots in the US really give me a sense of peace and being...San Juans in CO, Wind Rivers in WY, and Gold Basin here in AZ. It used to be solitary too but that's slowly changing, still not much development out here yet though. Vegas is behind the mountains in the distance.

Almost all cacti species are native to the Americas, aside from a couple rare outliers. This one is a cholla, and I hate them so very, very much. Those who prospect in AZ know why, especially if you have a dog or like putting your hand on the ground to stabilize yourself. Joshua Trees are more noble, and they only poke your eyeballs out if you don't wear glasses.

Back to detecting. I decided to go with the 17" after determining I wasn't getting much advantage running the 17x12, and knowing from past experience how deep the washes were that I planned to hit and that I hadn't found much under 1/4 gram in the past so I didn't want the 10X here. These are 2 "patches", or really just washes, which I found myself and was clearly the first and only coil over. One wash produced about 4 ounces, including a 29 grammer, 19 grammer, and a 12 grammer, two 7 grammers, all deep. The other wash produced about 1.5 ounces of mostly 1/2 gram to 2 gram pieces. I detected each of these washes 6-8 times with the GPZ/Z14, and one of them I found in 2014 and had hit with my 4500 and 17x11, 14x9, and 18" round. 

As you can see, it's not the type of ground anyone would normally use a 17" round in. Rocky. I felt as if there were no diggable signals left with the Z14, so they were good places to start with the 17" to guage performance. I ran the same settings as I used with the Z14 and I keep a record of all my finds and my settings on Google Earth for future reference - 18 gain, 12 thold, low smoothing, HY, Normal. There are BIF and magnetite chunks here, and a lot of places get pockets of black sand which make the wash bottom hot. But I still classify this as mild conditions. 

The 17" really isn't a whole lot bigger than the Z14 when it comes down to it, and I can still nose it into the rocks, and glide over them. Ideal? Not at all. Did it work? Yes.

Within 10 minutes of poking, prodding, and gliding over rocks, I had a nice signal. Not subtle, but very clear and repeatable. And it was literally right within view of a place I have in a video with no signals on the Z14. I'm confident I hadn't heard this one before. Kicking rocks out of the way and then digging through about 12" of dirt, I pulled out a 1 grammer. It's towards the bottom of my fingers in the middle of my hand if you look close.

And about 5 feet further up the wash and to the side I got another great signal, unmistakable and in a place I've hit with the Z14 numerous times. Another 1 grammer with lots of hematite and quartz. 

And again, 15 or 20 feet further up, and under a pile of rocks and 10" or so deep, I get another one. Caught this in situ as it was wedged into caliche.

Pulled it out, this time it was 1.5 grams or so, I forgot the exact weight. Between the dirt depth and the stack of small boulders that was sitting on top of it, it was probably 14-16" or so down. The stack of rocks on top had surely hidden it just an inch or so out of range of the Z14, but the 17" round was able to ping it.

Here is the hole, the rocks I tossed off the top are out of the photo, but it was like a little waterfall of 10"-16" rocks that were high enough to just put this target out of range previously. A smaller coil wouldn't have helped because there was no open spaces to shove the coil into, it was the larger coil with greater depth that was able to hear this nugget under the rock pile that succeeded. Most of the targets I was finding seemed to be getting hit like this. I know it looks like the Z14 should have hit a target like this, and I feel the same way, but somehow over multiple passes I never heard these targets.

This was maybe 1 hour of detecting so far. And I was thinking at this point I was going to pull an ounce out of this "dead" wash at this rate. But that's where everything dried up. The wash flattened out, the big rocks decreased, and I didn't find much else for another hour or so until I pinged anothe 1 grammer about 10" deep. No idea why I didn't hear this on my Z14 on prior passes, it was a great signal. I believe it was standing vertically though. 

Finally when it was getting close to the time to hike back to my truck, I hit one more umistakable signal. Here's what it sounded like after a small bootscrape for those wondering what the signals sound like on the 17" which the Z14 couldn't hear at all. Solid, repeatable, and a definite dig me. These X Coils sharpen up signals to me a lot. This signal was more or less near the center of the wash, in a flat area that I must have detected 6 or 8 times with the Z14, no chance I didn't run over this since the wash is only 5 or 6 ft wide at this spot. This coil is just getting an extra 1-2" of depth on 1 grammer type stuff and if you find a spot that has a lot of nuggets left in that additional sweet spot, success will follow. Washes without that magic formula produce little to nothing.

And here is the nugget which was making that signal. It was about 13-14" deep and sitting right on caliche. 

And the total take for the day, almost 5 grams of missed nuggets. This is a profitable day for me, I try to make 2 grams minimum average per day when I'm on a detecting trip. More washes like this would pay to revisit, so I tried again the next day on a 2nd wash, and I'll make another short post on that.

Overall, I'm impressed with the 17". Prior to this, I had used it only in wide open, flat areas. But I figured why not give it a go in a rocky wash where there was a history of larger, deeper stuff. This is where it REALLY helps to be the one who first found the wash, and who knows exactly what type of gold was found and how deep, otherwise I'd waste my time and my arm strength running a coil like this over random rocky washes for no reason. This is why people who were around in the early days have such a large advantage of those who started later, and it's hard to truly understand how large that advantage is until one makes finds in a new area themselves. 

Anyways, the 17" doesn't feel a whole lot heavier than the Z14, just slightly. I can swing it for a good amount of time without using the guide arm and not get fatigued. This coil to me fulfills the promises of what the Z19 should have been. It's more sensitive than the Z14 even on the 1/4 gram type stuff, and definitely gets up to 2" or so more depth on the 1+ gram stuff.

One thing is that this coil is so sensitive that keeping my phone in my upper jacket pocket is no longer possible. And the small metal piece at the bottom of my boot zipper is now really annoying where as it's almost inaudible on my Z14 unless I get close. I really find myself needing a longer shaft on the GPZ with the coil too, for those reasons and also because it doesn't get far enough out from my feet to prevent me from stepping on the coil. I'm only 6ft tall, ML just needs to start making longer shafts for future machines.

Also, properly noise cancelling with this coil is essential. It'll pick up EMI like crazy if you detect wash sides, but I was able to mitigate most of that by noise cancelling multiple times through the detecting session. I can get away with once a day with the 12" round, or sometimes forget to noise cancel entirely. No way with this 17". That is to be expected of any big coil though, bigger antenna for EMI.

I really have no complaints or suggestions for improvement on this coil at all, it does what I expect it to do and it's definitely got a place in my arsenal now. The edge sensitivity is great, and the coil hits small stuff and deep big stuff alike. This is the first time I've really felt like I'm finding stuff I couldn't have found somehow with my Z14/GB2 combo. I feel most these targets would have been inaudible at any setting on the Z14. 

 

[flakmagnet]

That was great. A clear lesson on why you work the way you do, and where you do. I am also impressed with the thoughts on the 17" coil. I am conflicted though, I still think I'm gonna wait to see what NF comes up with later in the summer (if they can continue manufacturing), I like the idea of not having to f%$& with the cable. 

Thank you for taking the time. It is always appreciated.

[jasong]

10 hours ago, flakmagnet said:

 I am conflicted though, I still think I'm gonna wait to see what NF comes up with later in the summer (if they can continue manufacturing), I like the idea of not having to f%$& with the cable. 

I hear you Flak, I'll be eagerly trying one of the NF offerings out next year too. They look thinner and even lighter than the X Coils from the early photos. I'm down with whatever product works the best. 

I will say, I hope NF keyed into Chet's cable mod and make their coil cables like that. When you switch coils out 3 or 4 times every day it becomes clear that the GPZ wasn't really designed for a lot of coil changing what with where the connector is located and the clunky design of the control box opening mechanism. So much nicer the way Chet has his set up.

9 hours ago, kiwijw said:

Glad to hear & see it from someone of your caliber & respect in the detecting community.

Aww man, don't make me blush. I am definitely not high on the respect rung in the local AZ detecting community as a lot of people here actually dislike me quite a bit, but I appreciate the compliment.  

I'll try to put together one last post here in this thread tomorrow of what else I found with the 17" in Gold Basin. My success with it has continued. I wish I had some kind of critical input on it to recommend improvements, but it's a great coil all around, as long as one isn't in alkaline/salty soil. 

[jasong]

I have to head home soon.  I am a bit short on photos because it's been 50 degrees, 20-30mph winds, and constant drizzle. It makes me just want to stick to detecting and get through the day without messing around. 

There is no one around, the few people camped out are staying inside. As Condor and Flak have said already - prospecting is social distancing to the extreme and I love it! And it reminds of how it was when I first came here and I had the winters all to myself since everyone else went south. And every so often the sun comes out. The desert is green everywhere now, and I can hear this vegetation and the wet patches on my 17" coil so I'm having to slow myself down a bit the last few days.

Notice I've removed my protective cover from GPZ, it's too much of a hassle with constant coil changing. Plus it's a tool, tools get beat up. whenever I sell this machine, the battle scars will be an testament to the machine's successes for whoever the next owner is.

A mockingbird visited, bouncing up and down and making cricket noises, coyote howls, rooster crows, dove calls, I'm pretty sure it was trying to emulate an ATV engine sound too. First one I've seen and it was pretty amazing. 

I also noticed on the way in that someone has begin to detect my area pretty hard, and systematically. I noticed this on a number of other areas as well.

Back on topic, my plan was to hike to a 2nd wash which had produced well for me in the past. It's about a 30 minute hike in, and I took the 17" with me to run over the rocks and do some deep seeking. I've worked this wash over 6-8 times with the Z14 because it's near other areas I was exploring and I'd always stop by on my hike back to grab a couple more nuggets on slim days. I've also run my GB2 over it once. 

This wash is getting really slim on targets. I had been running for a couple hours and began to think my "gas money wash" was pretty much dead. But then like last trip, I got a slight signal above a big pile of rocks. Pulling the rocks aside, the signal turned into a screamer and I knew it had to be gold. About 6" of rocks and about 10" of soil removed, I popped out a 2 grammer after using my flathead to chisel through about 1" of rotten, soft caliche.

30 minutes later I found a dink, with a lot of crystalline limonite and quartz, right in the middle of the wash, about 6" deep. The brown is attached caliche, not part of the nugget. 

And another 2 hours of poking and prodding, trying deep areas, produced nothing further. As new equipment comes out, this will be a great testing ground, if something new can make this wash produce more then I'll be personally impressed. 

Total take was 2.62 grams, again a paying trip. I cleaned these nuggets in water so you can get a sense of the porosity and inclusions. Under a loupe there are hundreds of tiny grains of quartz embedded into this stuff along with a crystalline form of limonite which often resists HCl.

But I wasn't done yet, as the drizzle started again I hiked back to my truck and decided to take advantage of the 17" coverage by prospecting a hillside I suspect had gold somewhere on it since all the nuggets I found in the wash were on one specific side, and not on all stuck in caliche yet, indicating they had moved recently. One last post soon...

[flakmagnet]

Nice hunting.