Mf Machines On Mineralized Black Sand Salt Beach. Update 4/8 Legend, Manticore, Nox 900.

[midalake]

11 hours ago, Digalicious said:

The default salt stability control on the Legend is set at maximum. That setting should have a notable effect on depth.

 

8 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Did you adjust the iron filter settings to a lower value than default 8? Same for bottle cap reject. Gigmaster’s beaches have very mild black sand levels. I think he uses IF 5 and Bottle Cap 1. That may be too much iron bias for your beach. Same with recovery speed 1

Re-checked settings: Salt [st] 2,  Iron [IF] 5,  Audio [AG] 6.  Bottle [bc] 1.....
  Recovery speed was tested from 1-3. We thought 1 was giving better responses than 3. The higher you went the worse response on fringe targets.

In summary: I do not think any of our settings hurt this test of the Legend. 

 

[midalake]

2 hours ago, mcjtom said:

Could you describe the 'double ring' of iron at depth (as opposed to nonferrous single ring as iron at depth)?

Yes. Hunting in Beach 2, 1 tone, horseshoe mode on. ALL Iron will double ring or have a target break down in response at depth. We are talking targets deep enough that will not TID properly anyway.  Remember 1 tone so everything sounds the same. [for the most part]. The key is coil control. Slow coil movement is necessary to let the ferrous sounds off twice.  

In the case of nonferrous at depth. It will ONLY single ring. You cannot make it double ring. In my experience the signal will sound good 360 degrees around. Good being:  clean with no breaks, clicks, or double rings. 

Shallow nonferrous will double ring......but this is what you have the TID display for. Showing positive numbers.  FYI The 900 Equinox is also masterful at this in Beach 2.  

 

[midalake]

9 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

The stock lower rods on all Legends are carbon fiber. They make a tall man carbon fiber lower shaft. Yours must have been altered if it doesn’t have a CF lower shaft.

I checked and yes, the lower is CF. However, there is too much flex in this set-up for me. I could not hunt it. That flex coming from the upper.    

[Jeff McClendon]

30 minutes ago, midalake said:

 

Re-checked settings: Salt [st] 2,  Iron [IF] 5,  Audio [AG] 6.  Bottle [bc] 1.....
  Recovery speed was tested from 1-3. We thought 1 was giving better responses than 3. The higher you went the worse response on fringe targets.

In summary: I do not think any of our settings hurt this test of the Legend. 

 

Knowing your preferences, I assume that you were using the A discrimination pattern right? 

Just for me (I tend to agree with you about the Legend not being as deep as the 900 and Manticore BTW) what depth was the ring and what size and karat value?

I still think IF 5 is way too high for an iron mineralized beach with lots of black sand. I would be running IF at 1 or 0. Running IF 5 is just going to mask deep targets in the iron sand especially since the Legend tends to shift deeper non ferrous targets into the ferrous range anyway even on mild beaches. Same with Bottle Cap 1.

As far as Manticore, it has taken me and Abenson almost 6 months to get a handle on that detector. I know you are a brilliant guy and I am not, but I doubt you can do it in 1 hour.

[Bill (S. CA)]

14 hours ago, midalake said:

This was a fully updated Legend. We used Gigamasters settings and with limited time just stayed with those. I don't think Beast mode is for beach hunting.  Not sure what your "DT" reference is? 
We did release any setting that might upset depth performance and tested from all metal to discrimination of 10. Even experimenting with recovery speed. 

Our surprise and confusion was, the Legend could run at full sensitivity yet not obtain the depth of the other machines on the beach.  

To be honest, this was not even close. Maybe the Black Sand? Don't know?  

"DT" is the new deep target recognition feature.

My experience with my Legend has been similar to yours at my beaches.  It just doesn't go as deep as a Deus II or Equinox.

However, and you and I have discussed this a lot, out here in S. CA nothing can beat the Deus II at depth in wet and/or black sand.  I haven't seen an Equinox at the beach in over a year and my Legend is the only Legend I've ever seen.  It's all Deus II's with an occasional Manticore.  Saw one 900 last year and that hast been it. 

Personally, my favorite detector to hunt the beaches with is my Apex.  I just like it and it gets really good depth.  I'm anxious to see what the Storm brings to the table.

[mcjtom]

1 hour ago, midalake said:

Slow coil movement is necessary to let the ferrous sounds off twice.  

Would varying the recovery speed affect this phenomenon?

[Geotech]

8 hours ago, mcjtom said:

Could you describe the 'double ring' of iron at depth (as opposed to nonferrous single ring as iron at depth)?  Near-surface ferrous targets could double (or triple) ring for different reasons - does it sound different than the 'double ferrous ring' at depth?

 

p.s. A question probably for @Geotech: does it make sense to explain the 'double ring' of iron target at depth as:

1) the Tx magnetic field magnetizing the ferromagnetic target by induction and the target returning the signal immediately, in phase,

2) the same alternating Tx field inducing eddy currents in the target which in turn produce Rx magnetic field, but this time the return is delayed.

The delay between the two returns changes the way how a target sounds?

I don't know how it sounds on the Equinox (and possibly on Vanquish by association), but I tried to imagine why deep iron should 'double beep' but deep nonferrous could show like iron but not 'double beep'...

It's the same issue as described here. A shallow iron target will double-beep even with a brisk sweep but with deep iron the two beeps blend together (due to the geometry of depth vs coil size) unless you slow down the sweep rate.

Deep non-ferrous can start to look ferrous because the ground response (with is almost purely positive-reactive) overwhelms the now-tiny negative-reactive portion of the non-ferrous, so that the target's reactive signal ends up looking ferrous. This is more likely to happen with low conductors than with Big Silver Coins. It also depends on the quality of the ground filters. Less likely to happen with the old 4-filter designs, which no one makes any more (AFAIK).

Shallow non-ferrous can double-beep because as you get really close to the RX coil the edge of the coil becomes more sensitive than the center. Gold prospectors use this to "edge-detect" really small nuggets with PI mono loops.

[midalake]

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Just for me (I tend to agree with you about the Legend not being as deep as the 900 and Manticore BTW)

4 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

My experience with my Legend has been similar to yours at my beaches.  It just doesn't go as deep as a Deus II or Equinox.

Well that sums it up. 

 

[midalake]

3 hours ago, mcjtom said:

Would varying the recovery speed affect this phenomenon?

I have hunted in recovery of 6 for a long time. But from memory, I do not think there was much difference between 4-6 recovery when I was testing. Everything else would have to be tested.

[midalake]

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

As far as Manticore, it has taken me and Abenson almost 6 months to get a handle on that detector. I know you are a brilliant guy and I am not, but I doubt you can do it in 1 hour.

Yes, that is why I rely on my other brilliant friend that has owned the Manticore for over a year. 😎

 

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I still think IF 5 is way too high for an iron mineralized beach

Yes, maybe. The IF of 5 did a great job of taking care of the multi metal 1-2 and 5 peso coins. I may have been able to turn it down some.