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Good morning all! I saw a post yesterday where someone mentioned the possibility of linking the equinox to an audio analyzer to get a visual readout on target tones and I found the idea fascinating. I've never seen this done and was curious what the old hands here thought about the idea. I'm sure the engineers at minelab (or any other shop) configured the sound of their machines with the human brain in mind, so our wetware may already be the best analyzer there is. But I can't help but wondering if a visualization of the audio would provide interesting heretofore undetected differences in targets that appear to be mostly indistinguishable to a rookie ear, namely uniform can slaw and pulltabs. Anyone here have any idea? 

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El Nino77 may be using online language translation software which can somewhat obscure the actual meaning of his post.

It is possible to use up to 4 separate WM08 wireless modules with one Equinox in order to “analyze” different tones with spectrum analyzers and oscilloscope type hardware and software. That is definitely interesting but not something I would do.

You might want to send El Nino77 a private message to clarify things.

As for distinguishing uniform can slaw, pull tabs and other low to mid range non-ferrous targets from desirable targets like US nickels, lead, brass and gold..........after thousands of hours using the Equinox it is sometimes very possible for me to hear subtle differences in those targets using the detect mode and pinpoint mode audio and number characteristics and to call them correctly before I dig them. I stress sometimes! Explaining those very subjective differences to another person is something else I would not do successfully.

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Whether or not @EL NINO77 misspoke I still think it's an interesting concept, and hearing folks such as yourself explain that you can in fact sometimes hear a differentiating audio signal between similar looking targets leads me to believe that there are subtle differences that might be readily obvious with spectrum analysis, if not to an untrained ear. I think one immediate issue is that while the equinox can connect to headphones with Bluetooth, is not clear whether you could make a connection to say a computer or smartphone the same way. 

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I still think that this idea of using Equinox's sound output for graphic analysis of sound is still current ...👍

I still think that this idea of using Equinox's sound output for graphic analysis of sound is still current ...

  Although I have no problem using classic really good analog detectors / Tesoro Mojave, Vista Gold Gain, and Golden Mask-Coin killer / .. I still saw ... and I see with digital detectors that there is a possibility to achieve some progress in additional information not only from from the point of view of the VDI number itself but also with the additional Graphic signaling signal ...
  I have several detectors that also have a graphically showing identification signal ... / WHITES Spectra V3, AKA Signum MFD, Rutus ALTER 71 v.2, Minelab Etrac .. for which this graph definitely helps in the detection of so-called good signals ..

Since Equinox does not have such a possibility of "graphic display of the signal ... one of the possibilities can be the use and display of audio in a 50-ton multitone to display this signal in a graphic sound analyzer.

...we can use the Whites Spectra V3 detector as a good example of the possibility of graphical signal display ...

288706835_november1iphone5S2019004.thumb.JPG.3272bcd14bf3c09869d76ae4da1d64d0.JPG

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7 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

we can use the Whites Spectra V3 detector as a good example of the possibility of graphical signal display

Is that a histogram of VDI's from the three frequencies?  I'd be thrilled with just a single histogram of the digital TID's in a single mode with the Equinox.  I try to do that in my head but we humans are so biased -- we see what we want to see....

Here is a mockup of what I'd like to see on the Eqx screen:

522142567_Screenshotat2021-03-17202530.png.091eb2f5c547bf4bda4505e4868cddbd.png

You wouldn't need multiple channel outputs or audio signal processing.  It could be done inside the Equinox now, possibly with a memory upgrade and of course some extra lines of code.  Do the FBS detectors already do this?

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3 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Is that a histogram of VDI's from the three frequencies?  I'd be thrilled with just a single histogram of the digital TID's in a single mode with the Equinox.  I try to do that in my head but we humans are so biased -- we see what we want to see....

Here is a mockup of what I'd like to see on the Eqx screen:

522142567_Screenshotat2021-03-17202530.png.091eb2f5c547bf4bda4505e4868cddbd.png

You wouldn't need multiple channel outputs or audio signal processing.  It could be done inside the Equinox now, possibly with a memory upgrade and of course some extra lines of code.  Do the FBS detectors already do this?

I know the Whites let's you chose your own adventure by displaying a probability histogram of target ID but it is also not processing the target signal with Multi IQ.

Interesting, but honestly if my Equinox was showing me that on every target I'd be sending it in for repair.  The tone ID is either stable  (singular metal, symmetric shaped target) or unstable (multi targets - e.g., mixed coin spill or multi alloyed target - e.g. bottlecap, irregular shape - can slaw), and solid (button, ring, coin) or hollow/distorted (e.g. can slaw) audio that's all I need out of the audio - visual aids can't achieve those nuances or are merely redundant to the audio.  Plus it violates the KISS principle that is mostly embraced by the overall Equinox design (vs. the etrac and ctx).

But perhaps I am misunderstanding the concept.

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Chase .... I think you wrote very well 3 good considerations, where the graphical display of the signal shows a possible movement of the display of VDI in the case of less clean signals, or mixed signals in the iron separation.
Using the IRON bias function with EQUINOX would of course allow you to change the characteristics of the graphic display of the signal.

Another thing is that the graphic representation of the Equinox sound signal would show a bit of the history of the signal calculation and so it would show -more-less it would be too Graphically Multiton ..

With Spectra, the graphical renderer helps a lot in such situations ..- when you get only partial color sounds of the signal, but the graphical display still shows sufficient representation of the signal in the non-ferrous zone ..
Then I decide to dig such signals ..

 

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1 hour ago, EL NINO77 said:

Using the IRON bias function with EQUINOX would of course allow you to change the characteristics of the graphic display of the signal.

Good point, but again, the iron bias tool is crude enough such that fine tuning or tweaking it for every situation to make a dig decision using such a visual tool is akin to using sledgehammer to kill a mosquito.  I use coil control and Equinox's ability to lock-in on an iffy mixed signal solely via the audio.  I can integrate audio and my swing dynamics better than using a jumpy visual display.  It's the same reason I don't bother with the X-Y display on the Deus.  I can hear via the target audio when the distortions that show up on X-Y.  Willing to see how it might be implanted in practice but I would rather ML consider matrixed Fe-CO TID and zDisc like the FBS2 machines

 

1 hour ago, EL NINO77 said:

Another thing is that the graphic representation of the Equinox sound signal would show a bit of the history of the signal calculation and so it would show -more-less it would be too Graphically Multiton

Presumes Multi IQ has a time domain based history to display.  Seems to me that Multi IQ is processing so quickly that any graphical signal history info would either be really stale data or would be invalidated by changes in any number of real time variables including sweep angle across the target.

Anyway - at this point I think that as far as depth, target ID, and ability to handle hot ground, we may be at the limit or plateau of the merger of target signal processing tech and the induction balance target detection principle.  Such visual concepts above are like strapping a 4k monitor onto a crude 8-bit color video signal.  

One of a number if things needs to happen at this point.  

A new detection principle needs to be fielded that is as portable as induced magnetic field metal detectors but which renders the ground visually transparent.

Or

Artificial Intelligence and/or augmented reality technology needs to be better applied in the hobby to solve other problems such as providing a visual representation of your search pattern and specificall coil coverage ensuring you have completey covered every inch of ground at your hunt site, as an example.

 

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10 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Interesting, but honestly if my Equinox was showing me that on every target I'd be sending it in for repair.  The tone ID is either stable  (singular metal, symmetric shaped target) or unstable (multi targets - e.g., mixed coin spill or multi alloyed target - e.g. bottlecap, irregular shape - can slaw), and solid (button, ring, coin) or hollow/distorted (e.g. can slaw) audio that's all I need out of the audio - visual aids can't achieve those nuances or are merely redundant to the audio.  Plus it violates the KISS principle that is mostly embraced by the overall Equinox design (vs. the etrac and ctx).

I don't see it as being on all the time.  (I agree, that would be confusing.)  If I got an iffy target and would like to investigate the dTID's then I'd turn it on and take some data.

As far as not needing it, well maybe your ear (brain) is better trained than mine.  (In fact, I'm sure it is.)  IMO the value of this isn't to determine a single target's properties (for lack of a better word) but rather determining if a masked target is worth digging.

I must live in the trashiest place in the country because all my 'worthy' sites (meaning potential for old coins -- my desired targets) are loaded with nails, wire, etc.  It's like the nail factory provided everyone with free topsoil after they had salted it with their rejects!  That's why for me it's all about unmasking, not figuring out the symmetry of a target.

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1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

I must live in the trashiest place in the country because all my 'worthy' sites (meaning potential for old coins -- my desired targets) are loaded with nails, wire, etc.  It's like the nail factory provided everyone with free topsoil after they had salted it with their rejects!  That's why for me it's all about unmasking, not figuring out the symmetry of a target.

I honestly do not think technology can provide a magic bullet here, at least not as long as the detection principle being applied is induction balance. The reason being the detection principle is not that sophisticated and the variables in play are too numerous.

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