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Chase Goldman

XP Orx Compared To XP Deus

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After going through the user manual and Gary's video both posted by TNSS (thanks David!) here is my take as an experienced Deus user/instructor but WITHOUT laying my hands on one:

Basically you have 2 slots occupied by the Deus Gold Field Program (called Gold/Fine Gold) and 2 slots occupied by the Deus Fast program (called Coin Fast/Coin Deep) and 2 open slots. Sensitivity and Disc are fully adjustable 0-99 (IAR is used for the Gold Programs instead of disc). Tones are either Pitch (Gold) or 3-Tones (Coin) with the low tone corresponding to iron, based on the disc setting, and which can be turned either off or on - that's it, no adjusting iron volume level. No full tones, no pitch tone in Coin mode, no 4 or 5 multitones, no audio response, no notches, no silencer, and the mid and high tone breaks are not adjustable. A threshold tone can be set in the Gold modes. Reactivity can be adjusted from 1, 2, 2.5, 3 - which are the only reactivity settings I have used on Deus anyway. For ground settings it is manually or automatically set with ground grab if there is enough mineraluzation, but no tracking mode. You can select a salt range for wet salt or alkaline soil conditions. Fully adjustable coil frequency settings within the capability of the coil you attach to it. No TX power adjustment, No Target ID normalization across frequencies, no apparent target volume modulation with depth, and no depth meter. So that's it. 

The difference between the two preprogrammed gold programs is the default sensitivity setting, the default frequency setting (31 khz/51 or 74 khz depending on the HF coil you use or 17/25 khz for the x35 coil) and the reactivity setting. The difference between the two preprogrammed coin modes is the default reactivity setting (2.5 for fast, 2 for deep). If you are using the HF coils, both coin modes are set at 14 khz. If you are using the X35 coils, Fast Coin is set at 17 khz and Deep Coin is set at 8 khz.

Otherwise, it is apparently geared toward the gold seeker with a pair of very simplistic, yet effective coin/relic mode programs thrown in for good measure.

Likes: 

  • Complete compatibility with all the new Deus coils and the MI6 pinpointer and App (if it ever gets released) which means all Deus frequencies are available to the ORX user.
  • Simplified Menu navigation and user interface (perhaps too simplified in SOME areas).
  • You get almost the same Gold Field experience as you get with the Deus except no audio response setting and Rx capped at 3
  • Like the large TID and IRON probability displays when you get a target hit
  • Overall, I like it better than the Deus lite package
  • Made the amazing Deus light-weight, low-profile package even lighter.  Perfect for grab n go and on the go, carry-on travel.

Dislikes

  • Still priced TOO HIGH for what it is IMO, needs to come down a few hunge and the headphones should just be included at the lower price point.  XP perhaps missed a business opportunity here to partially eat into a crowded mid-range detector market.  Alternatively, they could offer it at the advertised price point but with any two coils.  They could possibly get a lot of existing LF legacy coil Deus users to buy in on that simply so they could get their hands on two of the "new" coils with the ORX stuff as a bonus.
  • The Coin mode is perhaps too simplified with no way to vary
    • Transmit Power
    • Tones - 3 tones are it (with the ability to turn the lower iron tone off or on), No Full Tones, No other multitone options, Cannot adjust the Mid and High tone breaks and no Pitch in coin mode.
    • No Audio Response Setting - Gary noticeably struggled with lack of target audio modulation and had to guess as to target depth.  It must be locked at 5 or 6 which means no change in audio intensity with depth.
    • No overload indicator or depth meter
    • No independent silencer setting adjustment - (I wonder if it tracks with reactivity setting or if it is turned off?)
    • No negative Disc
    • No Notches
    • No ID Normalization
  • Tracking GB would have been nice, but can live with the ground balance scheme provided
  • Would like a few more custom memory slots to enable custom frequency interrogation of targets though it appears you can only step through the modes sequentially by pressing the # button vice the +/- buttons like on the Deus so negative points for a user interface step backwards but with only 6 slots, no biggie.

In the end, I think they went slightly too far on the tone simplifications in the Coin modes and there needed to be something (like audio modulation at least) that would give the user SOME idea of depth.  If it had pitch AND full tones in the coin modes (and perhaps priced a little lower) I would probably pick one up for rucksack use when swinging my PI detector in Culpeper or as a grab and go travel machine that I would not freak out too much about if someone decided to lift it (the cool thing about Deus and travel is that you can break it down and separate the parts (coil, control box, headphones, and coil) so if someone lifts a bag, you can still retain some of your investment).

CG

P.S. - The ORX is compatible with all XP DEUS coil types except the first generation/legacy LF coils.

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Mr. Chase Goldman

   I thank you for your honest opinion of the what and what not the ORX has to offer.

 Now over time the XP Deus has had updates couldn’t they do the same for the ORX ?

 On the price I say that’s a big joke . I can buy another detector  that offers multi frequency and it’s a true multi frequency detector. Then buy a small coil and still not spend much more than the ORX will cost me.

 I guess they can say wee wee wee all the way back home with their ORX .

 Chuck 

 

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1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

 Now over time the XP Deus has had updates couldn’t they do the same for the ORX ?

They can, and with a little tweaking, it could be a great budget alternative to the Deus (I hope they do) but to make it a true budget alternative, the pricing needs to be more in line where the marketplace is today on mid-capability detector pricing.  I provided some ideas as to how XP could do that and perhaps still make money.  But there is no denying the fact that how ML has priced the feature-rich Equinox, they have created a huge disturbance in THE FORCE - otherwise known as the mid-priced detector market.

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Chase Goldman 

That Force you’re talking about has upset everybody’s apple cart. It may stand or stay top detector for a long time.( For the money. )

 Some may try to outdo but it will be a cold day in someplace before they do.

 I can’t see are believe any detector company think they can come out with something that’s less and ask more for what they have to offer . 

 I’ve been known to do stupid things and I was thinking about getting the ORX . Now after reading what you had to say and being if I was to buy the ORX it was because of less weight. After some thought another pound won’t hurt that bad after all .

 Chuck 

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Great analysis Chase.... you did what I was planning to do but have not yet.

To me it really just comes down to pricing. Right now I can't find any U.S. sites advertising pre-sale prices, so all we have to go by is from the Orx announcement:

"Affordable price – Suggested maximum retail price: 699€ including taxes – 799€ including taxes with wireless headphone (WSA)."

699 Euro as of this minute is US$798 and 799 Euros is US$912

Now they do say "maximum retail price" so MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) may be lower. 

However, Detekniks is advertising presale pricing at $699.00 and $798.90 pounds sterling which equals about US$893.39 and US$1021.70 respectively.

But I am still guessing US$799 and US$899 respectively for the two models (with or without wireless headphones)

I was figuring on the XP Orx being an offshoot of the Depar DPR 600 which was retailing for US$680. It made sense for XP to release a more gold specific detector, simpler to operate for gold prospectors, and at a lower price to compete with all the $700 dedicated prospecting detectors out there, like the Makro Gold Kruzer for instance.

Bottom line is you can get an XP Deus with controller, wired headphones, and X35 9" coil for $1230 and the XP Orx with controller, wired headphones, and 9" round HF coil for about US$799, a $400 savings.

And the XP Deus with controller and wireless headphones for $1520 while the XP Orx with wireless headphones will be about US$899, a $600 savings. the wireless headphones on the Orx are not the exact same as the ones on the Deus but still, $600.

Kind of a no-brainer if you are a gold prospector and don't care about the other capability.

Here are the two closest XP Deus packages from XP website:

  • 2

    XP Deus Detector Comes with:

    • FX-02 Wired Backphone Headphones
    • LCD Remote Display
    • 9” or 11" X35 Coil with Telescopic Pole
    9" Option Part Number: DEUS22X35RCUS11" Option Part Number: DEUS28X35RCUSdeus-option-2-20160127.pngSee LCD Functions
    Where to BuyMSRP $1475.00 USD/CAD  MAP Price: $1230.00
  • 3

    XP Deus Detector Comes with:

    • WS4 Backphone Headphones
    • LCD Remote Display
    • 9” or 11" X35 Coil with Telescopic Pole
    9" Option Part Number: DEUS22X35RCWS4US11" Option Part Number: DEUS28X35RCWS4USdeus-option-3-20160127.png
    Where to BuyMSRP $1825.00 USD/CAD  MAP Price: $1520.00

That makes a good case for the XP Orx being a less expensive option for gold prospectors. Like Chase I am more skeptical about how the true coin and relic people would think about it. Most people are not inclined towards "second best" and so I don't see this being a huge draw for those folks. Especially given the fact that you can go lower yet with the XP Deus starter package. Granted, it does not have the full controller, but XP has added so much capability now to the secondary headphone controllers that it is debatable if you need that full controller at all. The XP Deus Starter Package:

  • 1
    deus-starter-bundle-seal.png

    XP Deus Detector Comes with:

    • FX-02 Wired Backphone Heaphones
    • WS4 Display
    • 9” or 11" X35 Coil with Telescopic Pole
    9" Option Part Number: DEUS22X35WS4US11" Option Part Number: DEUS28X35WS4US
    deus-option-1-20160127.pngSee Starter Bundle Functions
    Where to BuyMSRP $1100.00 USD/CAD  MAP Price: $799.00

XP Orx Product Information Page

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Yep I totally agree with your cost analysis for the gold hunter, Steve.  Someone looking for a packable, compact solution for deep wilderness gold hunting cannot do much better than ORX from a value perspective.  Deus not required.  And agree it is less attractive to the general detectorist looking to break into the Deus/ORX universe.  Caveat: unless that user is willing to look at used Deus units...

The Equinox effect cannot be ignored.  CTX and DEUS detectors are being dumped on the used detector market in droves in the wake of new Equinox acquisitions.  Someone who is vigilant can possibly pick up a good, used non-lite Deus system for a pretty good price.

Those prospectors who don't need the compactness of Deus/ORX might also give serious consideration to the Equinox 800.  A capable gold prospecting detector at the same price point as ORX but with a ton more capability for general coin, relic, and beach detecting.

As far as Deus Lite vs. ORX is concerned, I lean towards ORX for two reasons.  1) You need the control box for either DEUS or ORX to perform pinpointing and 2) Although the Deus Lite headphones with version 5.2 software can now be used to alter several more user parameters than before, those parameter alterations cannot be saved for future use - you have to have the control box to save any customizations or set up the customizations on every use without it.  So all things being approximately equal price wise, I guess I would lean towards ORX in the absence of a good deal on a used full up Deus setup.

Finally, a general comment on  ORX pricing.  I still don't quite get where XP is on the ORX pricing.  I am not a detector manufacturer but I do work in a field that produces high tech gear.   Pricing is usually driven by competition (see Equinox), customer demand for unique features your detector can offer (light, compact, high range of operating frequencies, good ferrous rejection, high recovery), Research and Development investment (pretty miniscule here considering ORX is simply a subset of Deus programming and capability and the coils, which XP touts as the brains are identical), and finally production and material costs (pretty small based on the automation XP employs at its manufacturing facility and should be practically identical for Desu and ORX).  The reduced feature set alone should not be the cost driver because the programming and cost of the remote vs. Deus should be exactly the same.  So the only thing that can actually be reducing cost is the reduced R&D investment, competition and demand.  We will have to see if a reduced demand signal than what XP was expecting combined with pressure from ML will drive down the MAP.  That may take some time to reach price equilibrium following release and whether XP will "juice" the ORX with additional Deus-like capability with a future firmware upgrade.

Should be interesting to see how this turns out.

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5 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

After going through the user manual and Gary's video both posted by TNSS (thanks David!) here is my take as an experienced Deus user/instructor but WITHOUT laying my hands on one:

 

Chase, thanks. I’ve had my Deus awhile but am still a novice and was wondering how my old gear compared? Great report.

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XP Deus Owner's Manual

XP Orx Owner's Manual

I have a soft spot for Equinox obviously but if XP really is trying to go after the gold market in the U.S. and Australia like they did with the XP manufactured Depar DPR 600 in Africa they have far more problems than the Equinox. When the DPR 600 project happened in 2016 the gold nugget market was a different thing, with the Fisher Gold Bug Pro being perhaps the most popular nugget detector in Africa, and at a far lower price than the XP Deus. The African gold market dwarfs the coin and relic market worldwide, it's that big, so everyone wants to get in on it. Keep in mind that the Gold Bug Pro not only costs less but is far easier to operate than the XP, requires no charging (Africa, remember) and hardly weighs anymore either.

Since 2016 we have seen the introduction of several more gold nugget detectors, not least being the Minelab Gold Monster ($799 two coils), Makro Gold Kruzer ($749 two coils), and most recently the White's Goldmaster 24K ($699 two coils). Notice these machines have two coils for less cost than the Orx, and in the case of the Gold Kruzer you have all the coin and relic capability also, plus waterproof. Machines like these and more are the real competition for the XP Orx. And I have to tell you as a die hard nugget hunter the only real appealing feature for me with the Orx compared to the others is the way it folds down and stuffs in a rucksack. I can find gold as well with any of them, so it really comes down to the feature list.

I suspect XP will find most coin and relic types still going XP Deus as I would myself if I was going the versatility route. And that the XP Orx is not going to have much impact on the U.S. and Australian gold nugget markets unless the price comes down a bit from what we are anticipating. The market has been flooded with new gold nugget prospecting models the last couple years, and it is hard for me to believe there are lots of prospectors out there who do not already have at least one if not several of these detectors.

This thread sums up the competition and shows why the Orx may be a great machine, but has its work cut out for it versus the competition still, unless U.S. prices come in a little lower than anticipated.

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To bring the price down on the ORX maybe it would have been best for the cable that’s ran inside keep going. Then they could plug it into the controller and forget about having a wireless coil . Like it’s been said over and over again that cable is not a problem.

 I guess one good thing they do know some of the ORX have sold . I’m counting the dealers that’s made a video on the ORX.

 I’m sure one detector company is saying keep doing what you’re doing. Our sales is at its highest point ever and as you don’t make a change it will stay that way. 

 Chuck 

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Wonder if Xp plans  to use the new lighter rod with Deus packages in the future?

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