Minelab GM 1000 & Makro Gold Racer

[D&P-OR]

Pros & cons on these two detectors? (one versus the other)----All opinions welcome!

[Steve Herschbach]

Makro Gold Racer - Target ID, full range discrimination, steeper learning curve. Bottom line? Better for somebody looking for a more general purpose machine (gold, coins, jewelry, relics) that is very hot on gold.

Minelab Gold Monster 1000 - No target ID, no adjustable discrimination. Ease of use a priority. Bottom line? Better for somebody looking for a gold prospecting specific detector with possible jewelry applications (dry beach, tot lots).

My general recommendation is if you only want to prospect for gold, then use a detector made expressly from the ground up for that purpose. If you want a detector to do more than just prospecting, get a general purpose detector that is hot on gold.

I have both and neither is going away anytime soon. Click images below for larger views...

[D&P-OR]

Thank you for that info Steve.

[goldbrick]

All other attributes aside, which detector handles hot ground better? 

In example which detector loses less depth in Laterite soils?

Which detector handles hot rocks better while still retaining depth?

[klunker]

18 minutes ago, goldbrick said:

All other attributes aside, which detector handles hot ground better? 

In example which detector loses less depth in Laterite soils?

Which detector handles hot rocks better while still retaining depth?

A GPX 5000.

[Steve Herschbach]

It's hard to know when klunker is being serious but in this case I totally agree with his answer. If hot ground, laterite soils, and hot rocks are the problem, use a PI.

That's the real answer. Which is better though given the specific question (hot ground, laterite, hot rocks), the Gold Racer or GM1000? Short answer - I don't know. For me it's..... well, it's complicated. Here's the story.

The main problem for me is that I am finding it increasingly difficult to point at two induction balance detectors ( I can't say VLF because both detectors in question are LF detectors) and declare one is better than the other. IB machines in any given class are extremely competitive given the technology is so old. This means that results are very site specific. The exact mix of ground mineralization and hot rocks varies almost infinitely, and which detector has an edge often depends on the exact location. What is best at Crow Creek, Alaska is probably different than what is best at Rye Patch, Nevada, which is probably different than what is best on serpentine in northern California, which is probably different than what is best in the Bradshaw Mtns of Arizona. And then there is Africa and Australia.

The real catch however is what is best for me?

The problem I have been facing as of late is that for the last few years something like 98% of my prospecting has been done with a PI detector or more lately the GPZ. Induction balance detectors in my world are second tier prospecting devices for specific problems. That usually means dealing with more trash than I can put up with running a PI or the GPZ. It can also mean wanting extreme sensitivity to tiny bits the GPZ can't hit but I rarely find myself wanting to specifically target tiny wisps of gold these days. The time is better spent going for another larger nugget with the GPZ or ATX.

From my perspective that means sorting out which IB detector performs best under circumstances where I would not normally use an IB detector is not a huge priority. As klunker has brilliantly pointed out, the real answer here is "neither".

My personal "hot IB (LF 30 kHz plus)" journey goes like this. My first detector in this class was the 50 kHz White's Goldmaster II. It pretty much blew away everything made before, easily besting the 19 kHz Gold Bug of the time for hots on the tiny stuff. Then came the Goldmaster V/SAT and Goldmaster 3.

Then around 1995 White's came out with the Goldmaster 4/B which was also about the same time Fisher came out with the 71 kHz Gold Bug 2. White's changed from a small box hip or chest mount style to the coin detector pod type design in the GM4/B, the same as seen in the GMT today. Prospectors hated the new box design (and price increase) and with the new Gold Bug 2 out people switched in droves. I got the first Gold Bug 2 in Alaska and except for brief spells have owned one ever since.

Now a Gold Bug 2 convert, I did try the next White's machine, the GMT. The GMT does offer some performance advantages over the Gold Bug 2 (specifically depth in magnetite laden soil) but I never really did take to it, mainly because of the physical design differences between the Gold Bug 2 and GMT.

By now I was getting into GBPI (ground balancing pulse induction) detectors and so getting max depth on large gold with an IB detector started to fade as my main concern. Going forward if I wanted depth on large gold I would use a succession of GBPI detectors with IB detectors relegated to situations where either the gold was too small or the trash to dense to use a GBPI.

My move from Alaska to Nevada really cemented that situation. I used my Gold Bug 2 a few times to chase small gold in California and then more or less forgot about it as all my gold prospecting was being done with the GPX 5000, SDC 2300, and now GPZ 7000.

When I got wind of the Makro Gold Racer I realized I had not turned my Gold Bug 2 on in over two years! The GB2 still has the edge for tiny gold over the Gold Racer, but the extra versatility of the Gold Racer meant I would probably actually use it more, so I sold my Gold Bug 2 at that time and went with the Gold Racer. It was not a bad decision as I did indeed use the Gold Racer more than I would have the Gold Bug 2 due to its full discrimination capability. And when it comes to tiny gold I decided the Gold Racer was "good enough" for my use. This highlights that I am not always looking for extreme performance - overall practicality does matter to me also.

Then two things happened. First, XP started making noise about high frequency coil options. I got a Deus in anticipation of what I thought was an imminent release. And hot on the heels of that I got involved in the Gold Monster 1000 project. Since I still think the Gold Bug 2 is the benchmark machine for tiny gold, I bought a used one last year to use for comparative purposes. Now, just so people understand, when prototype testing I am not asked to provide comparative test results or anything like that. The focus is on bug fixing while the engineers worry about squeezing out the performance. Comparative tests are something I do on the side to satisfy my own curiosity.

Last winter sucked and the weather did not allow for much detecting at all let alone comparative field testing the way I do it. What few times I could get out it was all focused on final GM1000 checks.

My game plan a few months ago was simple. I had my Gold Racer and Gold Bug 2 and now a Gold Monster 1000. I figured I would have my XP HF elliptical coil back in May. I did not want to waste time doing comparative field testing on the three just to have to do everything again when I got the Deus coil so I kept putting that off waiting for the coil. In the meantime I went prospecting in Nevada with my GPZ.

This all got complicated by the Nokta Impact also showing up. It is not a LF (30 kHz plus) detector but maxes out at 20 kHz. XP already had me thinking maybe one detector that can switch frequencies was going to be my ultimate answer. The Impact fed into that thinking. The problem for me personally is I am interested specifically in two frequency ranges. Something around 19 khz is going to do well on small gold and also well on larger gold at depth. Something over 30 kHz is going to do better than 19 kHz on tiny gold, but will likely sacrifice some depth on the larger stuff. In my head I am thinking.....

XP Deus with 11" round coil at 18 kHz - how does it compare to other detectors in that class? Specifically, the Impact at 20 kHz. And how to judge? I still think the best all around 19 kHz nugget detector is the Gold Bug Pro. Just like the Gold Bug 2 it sets a standard for the class, in both cases because the two models have been in widespread use around the world for many years making them good reference points for others.

Then, with my mind bouncing around on selectable frequency, I decided a White's V3i (2.5, 7.5, 22.5 kHz) needed to be added to the mix (out of pure personal curiosity). Now the die was cast for another Darwin's Survival of the Fittest Detector because I was loading up on models with the express purpose of weeding them out. I decided to go for broke and got a killer deal on a new Teknetics G2, which is the same 19 kHz machine as the Gold Bug Pro under a different label.

I do not rely on reports from others or videos though they might point me at machines I might be interested in. Once my interest is captured I have to find out what works best for me by getting the machines and trying them. Now, if this makes it seem like I can just afford to blow money like crazy, it generally is a break even proposition for me. Some models come my way via test programs with manufacturers. The rest I buy, either used, like the Gold Bug 2, or get a smoking deal on, like the G2, or via special deals through dealer connections (like my old dealership in Alaska) which is the case with the XP coil and the V3i.

My method then is to get the units I am interested in and then I just use them over time and see what happens. I end up using the ones I like and the ones I like less (I actually like them all!) get used less and eventually end up getting sold. That money goes back in the kitty for the next round.

So here is my setup scenario:

1. First Benchmark Detector - Fisher Gold Bug 2 at 71 kHz. How does it fare against the 56 kHz Makro Gold Racer (already have a handle on that question), 45 khz Minelab Gold Monster 1000 (already have a fairly good handle on that question), and XP Deus at 74 kHz (not a clue)?

2. Second Benchmark Detector - Teknetics G2 (Fisher Gold Bug Pro equivalent) at 19 kHz. How does it fare against the XP Deus at 18 kHz, Nokta Impact at 20 kHz, and White's V3i at 22.5 kHz. I am going to toss the Minelab CTX 3030 into this mix although as a multifrequency model it does not exactly fit but there is that curiosity thing again. I have one so why not?

In a perfect world the XP Deus being able to run at 18 khz and 74 kHz would simply replace all the rest.  I suspect it is not going to be that easy.

However, when this is all said and done I need to weed it down, and I finally expect to get the new Deus coil next week. Then the games begin in earnest. I have made some decisions so far however.

The Minelab GPZ 7000 of all my detectors gets the most use. It stays until something better comes along.

The Garrett ATX is the only waterproof GBPI and handles some things my GPZ struggles with, so it also stays put until a better option comes along.

I have bounced between the White's DFX and V3i ever since the V3i came out. As a detector nerd I decided the V3i represents a unique piece of technology that is unlikely to be surpassed when it comes to the ability to customize every variable possible in a detector. It took awhile but I finally decided to get a new latest version full warranty V3i and keep it as the first entry in my new "permanent collection". The DFX is for sale in the Classifieds right now.

After going without for almost two years, I found I missed that Gold Bug 2 as I played around with the used one I got. I decided to make it the second entry in my permanent collection and just got a new latest version full warranty Gold Bug 2. The used one is for sale in the Classifieds right now.

I am here:

1. Minelab GPZ 7000 - Main gold prospecting unit for most situations.
2. Garrett ATX - Main saltwater jewelry detector; backup for GPZ 7000; some coin detecting.
3. Fisher Gold Bug 2 - Only detector I have used for over twenty years, deserves a place in my collection just for that. But still tops for flyspeck "scrape and detect" operations and wisps of gold in quartz.
4. White's V3i - Nothing else like it really, a detector nerd's dream and an engineering tour de force. Also a fantastic urban jewelry detector, one of the best ever made for that purpose, especially when paired with a Bigfoot coil.

And that leaves me with this mess to sort out:

1. Makro Gold Racer
2. Minelab CTX 3030
3. Minelab Gold Monster 1000
4. Nokta Impact
5. Teknetics G2
6. XP Deus

Out of those the CTX is almost certain to survive. I honestly would kind of like to see the Deus knock the rest off but I am skeptical.

OK Merton, if you are still with me, here is what I think/guess at the moment. First, I can't say for sure because I have been waiting for the XP coil to show before making some specific trips to specific situations chosen just to help me sort this all out. A couple of those are extreme ground situations but trash handling in California nail pits does matter to me also. I do think if the ground is super bad you are better off using a PI or a GPZ and so personally I will admit there is a certain "good enough" aspect to all this and what I personally am looking for is a best overall combination of performance factors combined with personal preference issues like feel on my arm and how the audio pleases me, etc.

My impression of the Makro Gold Racer is that while it is not quite as hot as a Gold Bug 2 6" coil combo on very tiny gold, it is very close. It is however very finicky in real bad ground/hot rocks and getting the right combination of tuning options can be a challenge, and not one I swear to have mastered. The Gold Bug 2 by comparison is easier to operate, in part simply by having fewer options. The Gold Monster 1000 has taught me however that part of my problem running a Gold Racer is I push the sensitivity way too high, then fight the effects of running it too hot. I really need to back down on the sensitivity.

My educated guess at the moment is that the 45 khz Gold Monster 1000 will more easily handle bad ground, but only with the caveat that it also can suffer from running the sensitivity too high. The question is that if I am on serpentine bedrock in California, ground full of magnetite, hot rocks all around, how the GM 1000 and Gold Racer compare? That is going to depend largely on how high you can push the sensitivity on both units and still get stable operation. I can pretty much bet the GM1000 will be easier to handle, but only by going full automatic. My main concern with the GM1000 is it either works or does not because there really is nothing to adjust. Ground tracking is automatic so you just have to trust it. That leaves sensitivity and disc mode as the only two things you can adjust to deal with bad ground and hot rocks. Disc mode robs a good chunk of the performance, as does auto sensitivity, though in the worst ground you may need one or both options to cope. In all metal, manual sensitivity, you will light up hot rocks etc. and the coil will get knock sensitive at higher levels (manual 9-10). The Gold Racer has some coil knock issues but the GM1000 is worse if you push both hard.

All that long winded explanation boils down to my thinking the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 is going to have the edge in the worst ground for dealing with the mineralization and hot rocks, and I am placing my bet there mainly based on my faith in Minelab's automatic ground balancing technology. In other words, if I was headed to that nasty serpentine magnetite laden hot rock infested spot in California right now and had to choose between the Makro Gold Racer and the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 I would grab the GM1000. Reminding you of course of what you already know - a PI is a better option.

So why take a VLF? Maybe the spot is full of nails and tin cans. Now the discrimination aspects kick in. I normal ground, the Gold Racer slays the GM1000 for discrimination. The Gold Monster is a preset iron disc with no ability to adjust. In severe ground however discrimination suffers greatly and becomes quite unreliable except on very strong targets, and the disc capability gap probably narrows.

At the end of the day it comes down to this. The Minelab Gold Monster 1000 was built with only one idea in mind. Getting decent performance out of a hot induction balance machine in real bad ground (i.e. Australia) whereas the Gold Racer does have a more general purpose intent. Minelab does enjoy an advantage being based in Australia when it comes to perfectly machine for use in tough conditions. In keeping with my advice on dedicated versus general purpose I am therefore going to bet overall on the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 versus the Makro Gold Racer for extreme ground handling capability while gold prospecting. That's all it is however, a bet based on limited data points and so I could be wrong. I will know a heck of a lot more on the subject in about two months. Until then, maybe Nenad in Australia or somebody else that has both machines can enlighten both of us more on the subject.

klunkers answer is not only better, but far more to the point!

[klunker]

As usual lots to think about.

  Don't forget the fun factor. There are lots of detectors that will out perform my 705 in any given situation but I sure have a lot of fun with it.

[D&P-OR]

Plenty to "digest" here!-----Do you get that coil knock issue you mentioned when running in maxed auto sensitivity on the GM1000?-----Does it occur with both coils?

[strick]

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

the CTX is almost certain to survive.

 

This is the punch line for me..... and the great news is Merton has one.

strick 

[Steve Herschbach]

5 hours ago, D&P-OR said:

Do you get that coil knock issue you mentioned when running in maxed auto sensitivity on the GM1000?-----Does it occur with both coils?

The coil touch sensitivity has been mentioned before, though it is hard to get a grip on how bad it is machine to machine. kiwijw's issue in that regard seems more troubling than what I experience, but then again I rarely run the GM1000 at manual sensitivity 9-10. My go-to setting has been manual sensitivity 6, 7, or 8 plus auto sensitivity where needed and at those levels I get no touch sensitivity of note. At 9 I get a little touch sensitivity with both coils, and at 10 it is such that I have to use careful coil control to keep the machine tamed. I have been doing this so long I hardly notice I am doing it but my coil handling with any machine changes almost instantly to whatever the machine tells me keeps it happy. The Gold Racer has some touch sensitivity at max sensitivity also but it is fairly minor. The Gold Bug 2 is the spoiler because you can crank it all the way up and I swear you could play golf with the 6" coil and not get false signals. I use a Gold Bug 2 6" coil to mow dirt flat and push rocks out of the way. You can't do that with the GM1000 at max sensitivity as it will false as you bump and touch things.