Rye Patch Claim Jumpers?

[hawkeye]

The so called "railroad lands" still remain a mystery to me.  They are marked on the LM map as managed by the BLM yet do not seem to be open for mineral claim (or they would be claimed to a certain extent).  So exactly what is their status?  I have never seen or heard a reasonable explanation.  Like Mitchel, when detecting Rye Patch I have assumed these lands were open for detecting.  I also assume if they were actual privately owned land they would show up that way on the land status map.  Looking for a definite answer.

[cobill]

14 hours ago, benzyoc said:

If the claims are clearly and properly marked I doubt many people will chance jumping on to a claim especially one like section 18. Section 19 has plenty of detectable gold and it's not claimed. Also Dan kindly offers his GOOD claims to anyone for 20 bucks a day. 

A simple google search shows that " running plates" is illegal. So if your running plates I wouldn't advertise that. None of the land is marked no trespassing. Owning a claim is different from owing the land. 

Also so if I see a game camera laying around on on unmarked land it's going in my backpack. 

Best solution is to clearly mark your claims. I doubt many people are interested claim jumping the sections you have. 

Make friends with the local people. 

You catch more flys with honey.

 

 

Hey benzyoc,

Two years ago I installed six 4 x 4 wooden posts with concrete footers and the proper yellow claim marker signs on my 40 acres...those claim jumpers don't respect or care about private claims. 

Bill

 

[WesD]

Im pretty sure that the odd sections there are BLM surface managed, but mineral rights are held by Newmont.

Otherwise it would be solid claims on those sections.

A few  years ago a guy had a lease from them and dug up a bunch of the washes.

[mn90403]

The deer and the antelope still play in Rye Patch.  I've been there many times during the winter months and seen them.  

BLM is concerned with more than just minerals when they manage the land.  I think in this particular area they've cut a deal with the mineral owners (big mining companies) to manage the land with all the other sections for the benefit of the wildlife.  If you look outside of this area you will see the checkerboard of private and public lands is still in effect.  You will have to look that up on My Land Matters. (Give them a few bucks for taking difficult BLM files and making it easy for us to understand.  I do.)

A few nuggets on the surface (less than 2 feet) is of little concern to a mining company.  Mining companies want deposits, not nuggets.

[LuckyLundy]

CoBill,

I believe, I talked to you and your GrandSon out in Rye Patch a month or more back.  If I remember right you didn’t have much luck.  Your claim is on a main road with one of your claim markers.  That would be a great place for you to place a map of your claim for Folks that are new to our hobby.  Kind of like rest stop maps, your Here!  My claim boundaries are within the Highlighted area.  Remember only One Percent of Folks out there can understand claim paperwork.  Just like only One Percent of Folks consistently find nuggets.  Again, your claim was hunted for the last 25 years by the best in our hobby.  I’m sure there are a few more left for you and your GrandSon to share the hunt in finding!  But, the Hey Day’s of Rye Patch are long gone.  Yet again, remains easy access for new folks to our hobby to have a chance of digging up a nugget!  I’m more than happy for you and Rail Dawg in claim ownership.  Instead of threatening verbiage try educating the young enthusiast in our hobby!  Hope to see you in the goldfields with a big smile on your face and a sweet nugget to go along with it.

LuckyLundy

[Hobo]

A claim entitles the claimant to the mineral rights, nothing else, and taking a photo of someone lic. plate just proves the camera works, nothing else. Try photographing someone removing minerals if ya want to prove something, and good luck with that

[Clay Diggins]

11 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Rail Dawg,

I was in Rye Patch last week.  I did extensive research before I went.  I took the time to walk to many of the section markers (corners) on section 17, 19, 9 and a few others.  I saw claim markers in some areas and did not go into your section 18.  There is a lot of unclaimed ground out there.  I might want to file a claim! 

I for one think that if you pay for a claim you should have the right of enjoyment. (I think you should also display signage which many do.)  I try to make sure of the quarter section of any claim so that I am not jumping.  My phone GPS now has the sections marked.  For some miners/prospectors this is too much trouble.  We know they violate decency in addition to mining laws.  They don't fill their holes no matter the claim status.

Let's get to the maps and the Land Manager status.  If you look on My Land Matters and any other mining map that is current I suspect then you will see the Land Manager Map.  Please note that there is NO PRIVATE LAND in 32N 32E.  All land is BLM or Bureau of Reclamation.  You can see the total placer claims and lode claims in the other sections.  In many cases the total acres claimed within those sections is less than the total acres in the section.  Sections 17 and 19 (in the middle of the area we are talking about) have no claims.  Nothing in 32N 32E is private land.

I don't know what the Pershing County Sheriff can do when I show him I'm on BLM land in section 17, 19 or others, do you?

Mitchel

 

This is disturbing to me Mitchel. I made that map and all it shows is who the land manager is and which sections have claims. The simple fact that the BLM is the land manager does not mean the land is open to prospecting or claim.

I took the next step for you. I downloaded the Master Title Plat (MTP) for that Township with a click on the Land Status map. The MTP clearly shows that most of the the odd numbered Sections have restricted minerals - as in not yours. So no you can't just look at a simple map and say to yourself "hmmm no claims and it's BLM managed so I'm good to go".

The reason this is disturbing to me is myself and others have spent a lot of personal time and money providing free tools and tutorials so the average prospector/researcher can know how to do their legally required Due Diligence before they put boots on the ground. The tools and information are now freely available. Abdicating your personal responsibility to know the land status before you prospect because I provided a map of claimed areas was not the intent of my work. Please don't use Land Matters as an excuse for criminal behavior. Ignorance is never a defense against a prosecution for mineral trespass or mineral theft.

The talk here has been of "Claim Jumping". Claim Jumping is the act of trying to steal a mining claim with paperwork and lawyers. Taking minerals from a claim you don't have permission to prospect is highgrading - not Claim Jumping. Higrading in all cases involves the theft of minerals owned by someone else. Apples and Oranges.

I get correspondence from a lot of claim owners complaining of higraders. This is not new to mining. Several studies of commercial placer mines have shown that higrading is the biggest threat to a profitable operation. Anyone that has worked for the larger mining companies know they spend a lot of time, money and hours ensuring their minerals are not stolen. Higrading is on every mining companies radar.

I often hear excuses like "If the claim isn't marked it's OK to prospect" and the even more common "It's the claim owners responsibility to maintain signs". Neither is true, a few States require corners be checked on an annual basis but in point of fact most states have no legal requirement that claims must maintain markers. In several states corner markers are not required at all for some claims and monuments only have to be present at the time of location. Although as a practical matter the claim owner should do everything possible to put others on notice of the claim it is not the legal responsibility of the claim owner to use signs or markers to keep prospectors off their claim.

Prospectors, unlike the general public, have a positive legal duty to know the mineral status of the land before entering to prospect. The claim owner put other prospectors on legal notice when they recorded their "Notice of Mining Claim Location" into the public record. That public record suffices as proper notice under the law even if there are no stakes at the mining claim location. The public record is open for inspection to all people.  Potential prospectors need to examine the public record before entering the land to prospect. Land Matters provides links to all the County Recorders right on the Mining Claim maps to assist you in accomplishing that requirement.

Where Land Matters could do better is in providing the subsurface mineral status of the lands. As you've seen above not all BLM managed land is open to prospecting or location. It's not just a matter of mineral withdrawals but more subtle issues like those odd numbered sections in parts of Rye Patch that were reconvened and were never open to location. There was no withdrawal there because there were no mineral rights to withdraw. Often those minerals have already been sold or leased. If you are found extracting minerals from these restricted lands the BLM will bring charges of criminal mineral theft. It happens quite often and is frequently prosecuted for something as simple as taking a pickup load of gravel or sand.

Then there is the big mass of "dark matter" that is the subsurface estate still owned by the United States. There are nearly 7 million acres of mineral lands, often available for prospecting and location, underneath private lands in the west. Mining companies know this and have legally mined private lands for years. It requires a huge amount of research to determine just where these hidden mineral lands are found. The BLM is tasked with maintaining the records of this huge subsurface estate but between the BLM and mining companies the attitude seems to be "out of sight - out of mind". With very few exceptions these records are available but virtually unobtainable by the average researcher. Land Matters has plans to map these subsurface mineral rights but it's a huge project with little public interest beyond the landsmen and oil and gas industries. We need to see some real public interest before we will commit the resources needed to complete such a big project.

Now to the tough part. Most of these complaints I receive of higraders are about metal detecting. Rarely do I hear of processing equipment being used. At least 9 out of 10 reports of higrading I receive are about metal detectorists taking the best and biggest gold. Several of you on this forum have been named by claim owners. I'm not the enforcement guy and I will not be calling you out in public but I do know. For small miners trying to protect their owned minerals from higrading the pointy finger is mostly about metal detectorists.

I do know that few of you set out with the intent to detect someone's minerals. In most cases these violations are due to ignorance, intentional or otherwise. Assuming that signs are required or that unclaimed BLM managed land must be available for prospecting are just two examples. I have heard from many prospectors that the big mining companies (or someone who appears to be working for a mining company) allow prospectors to work their claims. I've never found a prospector who had a name, phone number or signed release but this seems to be one of those things "everyone knows". I can tell you that no mining company that has public shares could ever legally allow you to prospect their claims without a work contract. The simple fact that you haven't been caught or run off does not amount to permission.

Please learn to do your own due diligence. Please respect mineral owners rights, those minerals are their private property under the law. With a little luck and hard work you could own a good deposit yourself.

Barry

 

 

[Rail Dawg]

Clay.  

Thank you.  

It’s what we live by as miners.  

You have taught me plenty over the years. 

[cobill]

Hey LuckyLundy,

That wasn't me in RP that you met. I only acquired my claim in 2016 and only have a few weeks a year to prospect..

Some background- Major Corporations have owned Sec 18 since the early 1970's. First by Saundra Lee in 1974, then Apollo Gold, and since 2007 Jipangu Gold Corp. Sec 18 became open to claim in 2016, when Jeff Dunmire acquired and then sold the 20-acre claims.

So basically, if anybody has been metal detecting Sec 18 in the last 40 years without written permission from one of those corporations, they were higrading.

32 minutes ago, Clay Diggins said:

Please learn to do your own due diligence. Please respect mineral owners rights, those minerals are their private property under the law.

Thanks Barry for all your efforts on Land Matters.

Bill

[hawkeye]

Clay, thanks for your reply.  "Mystery" solved.  Points taken.