Exploring Iron Masking And It's Effects On Different Metal Detector Models

[Chase Goldman]

32 minutes ago, kac said:

I always like the challenge of hunting iron infested areas. That is a good video and though I like all coil sizes to be similar it does show more of how the coils make a difference more so than the machines themselves, good overall look of what different people will run into with different machines.

ID machines I look for an up tic on anything above the iron range but skip stuff that spikes the machine to the max range. Iron can bring a silver quarter's number down to a penny or even a pull tab but wouldn't put those numbers in near max or max on the scale. As you get smaller and lower conductors or 3d masking the target will get smothered over and may only produce an iron only signal but may be a small target relative to the id #. IE if you hear a small dime size target but it has the iron number of an ox shoe you may want to investigate.

This is where I find a beep and dig to have an advantage not by technology but lack of. If I'm careful not to trim out the the fringe range than I am more likely to dig that target. Also I find a beep and dig to be more relaxing to hunt as I am not always trying to think so much hearing beeps, cross swinging over then and watching id's.

ID machines I like to run with Iron audio on in a disc mode setting so I can hear what is under my feet and know if I should be paying more attention to iffy targets OR I run in all metal mode and listen to the variations in the ground. Old Iron here in the NE can have some big halos and the old square nails can obliterate many coin size targets.

A number of great “pro tip” detecting nuggets in this post.

[GB_Amateur]

On 9/22/2020 at 12:57 PM, abenson said:

Iron Masking

Aaron, thanks for the video, starting the discussion on Monte's site (and prompting Monte to respond 😉), and providing your part of that discussion as well.

I don't know what the most complicated part of metal detecting is (if it even makes sense to put it in those terms), but masking has got to be right up there.  There are so many variables....  You've inspired me to do some more tests (in my test stand and in the field) and to pay extra attention to coil choice.

[Chase Goldman]

Thanks for taking the time to go through that detailed comparison.

I would like to know what your Deus "Iron" program is, abenson.  On Deus, discrimination plays a big role in countering the effects ferrous down averaging of non-ferrous targets.  That is why I am not a big fan of Gary Blackwell's "no disc" setups like the "Sonar" program.  First of all it "burns" a tone in a multi tone setup.  5 tones becomes 4 tones, 4 tones becomes 3 etc.  So for a 2-tone setup you have to use a 3 tones and push the down break down to the iron breakpoint.  If you simply use disc + iron volume - no need to burn a tone and you also gain the advantage of disc mitigating ferrous down averaging of non ferrous.  For more "2-tone personality" I use pitch tone combined with iron volume.  I get the iron grunt for anything below the iron disc breakpoint (I typically set it betweeen 7 and 10) and a VCO-like pitch tone (set at the highest pitch audio frequency) for everything above the ferrous breakpoint.  That makes non-ferrous audio pop in nail infested sites and as an added bonus, if you are relying on visual target ID, the non-ferrous IDs are more stable and less susceptible to ferrous down-averaging with disc enabled. 

[abenson]

On 9/26/2020 at 3:58 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks for taking the time to go through that detailed comparison.

I would like to know what your Deus "Iron" program is, abenson.  On Deus, discrimination plays a big role in countering the effects ferrous down averaging of non-ferrous targets.  That is why I am not a big fan of Gary Blackwell's "no disc" setups like the "Sonar" program.  First of all it "burns" a tone in a multi tone setup.  5 tones becomes 4 tones, 4 tones becomes 3 etc.  So for a 2-tone setup you have to use a 3 tones and push the down break down to the iron breakpoint.  If you simply use disc + iron volume - no need to burn a tone and you also gain the advantage of disc mitigating ferrous down averaging of non ferrous.  For more "2-tone personality" I use pitch tone combined with iron volume.  I get the iron grunt for anything below the iron disc breakpoint (I typically set it betweeen 7 and 10) and a VCO-like pitch tone (set at the highest pitch audio frequency) for everything above the ferrous breakpoint.  That makes non-ferrous audio pop in nail infested sites and as an added bonus, if you are relying on visual target ID, the non-ferrous IDs are more stable and less susceptible to ferrous down-averaging with disc enabled. 

My iron program is based off the deep program. Disc 8.7, iron vol 3, sensitivity 90, 31 KHz, reactivity 4, silencer -1, 5 tones with breaks at 8.7, 50, 80 and 97. The first and last breaks the tones are set to 202. 2nd break set at 367, 50-80 is at 593 and 80-97 is at 993. As you know with the HF coil 31 KHz up averages everything. So everything but nickels and similar items are in the 80-97 bracket. The mid tone I scrutinize closely in iron as it usually represents a masked target. You also have to be careful with the break at 97 because bigger silver like halves and dollars can come in that high. But where I'm using this program there is little chance of that happening.

[Redneck]

Interesting conversation about 2d and 3d capabilities.  Anyone know which detector does well in 2d and 3d detection?

thanks in advance.

[Ogliuga]

Sorry if I resurrected this thread, it’s absolutely interesting because   exhaustively illustrates an important topic such as iron masking.

Years ago I organized an extreme iron masking situation with 20 euro cent coin in the bottom of a 6” hole. Very hot soil near a seaside town in south Italy. Hole with 6 big and rusty nails: 5 driven into the wall of the hole and one next to the coin, in the bottom. I was testing one of the best machines I’ve ever used: Blisstool V6, in this case with a 7x9” SEF, little great coil. Machine managed to detect the coin, however with a slow and carefull sweep.
 

 

 

[EL NINO77]

Rick, can you describe this test in more detail about the "Six-Nail "3D test ?..... as well as the detectors you tested there ...?

I grew up on 2-filter detectors where you could do good separation. ..but at reasonably slow coil control ..

I think it is good to continue this topic ....

[Tom Slick]

Excellent video! Thanks for taking the time to put it together. I've had all your test detectors with the exception of the Apex. I love the Deus with the two HF coils in the iron but the Racer 2 with that OOR coil (and the 3X6 Snake) is really tough to beat in the worst iron infested sites. 

[EL NINO77]

 

...yes.. excellent...Test...👍and raises several questions about different types of separation ...

I really liked the end of the test over 2 covered "monte separation tests on dime and gold dollar" and the third covered test on aluminum foil.. as well as the response of detectors to these targets.. ..

[GB_Amateur]

@Ogliuga said:

Blisstool V6, in this case with a 7x9” SEF, little great coil. Machine managed to detect the coin, however with a slow and carefull sweep.

Yes, but how was the pizza?  😁

How deep were the nails and from which directions did the detector signal on the target?